According to 4th period website LA offered Jack Johnson for JVR

[Mad Dog]

A very good, while unspectacular offensive d-man. Not a superstar, but sort of reminds me a little bit of young Ed Jovanovski.... plays similar style, but less physical. He should be an easy 40-point player every year. He seems to have a knack of finding himself in the right place at the right time. I’d say offensively, he is very good. He has all attributes to be an excellent offensive d-man.

But here is the thing…. He *will* have some breakdowns defensively. I am not saying that he is a defensive liability, but he will cough up the puck or miss an assignment at least once every game. His +/- last year was awful, and he is still -8, which is partially attributable to the team’s play, but he can be a shaky player in his own zone. And with this Flyers team, that worries me a lot. I am looking at how bad this defense has been all year long and I put it squarely on the coaching staff. There is no way a team with Timonen, Conurn, Carle, and Meszaros should be struggling the way this defense is. I am of an opinion that whoever that d-man they bring in would basically have to be impeccable defensively, because I just don't have enough trust in this coaching staff to help their d-men being responsible defensively. And that’s the only reason why I wouldn’t do this deal, especially considering we would have to give up somebody significant to get Johnson.

[JackStraw]

@Mad Dog - I think Jack Johnson is kind of along the same lines as a player as Carle. Maybe a little better (then again maybe not) and maybe a little more expensive eventually.

[orange_crush]

If i am GM would go for solid physical defenceman Volchenkov type of player.

What about Bourdon, Marshall, and Walker?

[krasy]

@orange_crush

None of them is Solid

Edited January 12, 2012 by krasy

[flyerrod]

There is no way a team with Timonen, Conurn, Carle, and Meszaros should be struggling the way this defense is

One of the biggest problems is they keep juggling pairs trying to find someone who can cover Lilja. When Lilja plays, the Flyers don't trust him and Bourdon on the ice together as the third pair so your top 2 pair end up playing way too many minutes to cover his short comings. I can't wait to see how Gus does tonight. Hopefully his wrist is healed and his point shot on the PP is back.

[SoCalFlyfan]

@JackStraw -good comparison. jack johnson is matt carle with a more physical edge and a little more willingness to jump up offensively.

when doughty went down with a concussion and richards had his predicted shoulder issue the kings struggled. johnson however has played well imo, but the kings just can't score. he's better than his stats show this season.

[Vanflyer]

Isnt Jack Johnson supposed to be a big tough guy? We do need a big physical defensive stalwart, but we also need a buy to QB the PP. Several of our dmen can move the puck, but other than Mez, no one has a decent point shot at all. Our PP is not doing much and our dmen are not scoring many goals.

Jack plays 1st unit PP in LA (along with doughty). The thing with Johnson is he has not been very good defensively. He is a -86 in 5 full seasons with LA- though this year is his best showing thus far at only -8.

[JackStraw]

jack johnson is matt carle with a more physical edge and a little more willingness to jump up offensively

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Dynamo 47]

am i the only one who's not FOR acquiring johnson? he's a serious minus player of late. i don't think he'll just up and become a norris contender because he's on OUR team. i do not want him. there's a reason LA has been dangling him. he's expendable and their looking for suckers to bite.

I always liked Jack Johnson but I am definitely concerned about his defensive play. He has been a chronic minus player for the Kings. I would seriously have to weigh Johnson's possible defensive liabilities against Schenn's more physical style of play and being more responsible on the defensive end.

I mean Johnson was a minus player in the WC in 2010. In 7 games he had 3 points but was a minus 4.

[canoli]

For me this is one of those times when +/- doesn't mean much. Ya the numbers aren't pretty but neither were the Kings when JJ joined them. Hell they didn't make the POs till his 4th year there.

I like him. IIRC for Team USA he was maybe our best defender. He's no bone-crusher like Phaneuf always tries to be but he's not strictly a positional D-man the way Carle is. He can hit and he seems to enjoy it.

IMO Johnson for JVR (straight up) is the best move we can make this year. Moving JVR would not pain me in the least - frankly I'd be happy to see him go. We won't miss his 2 weeks of strong hockey once a year.

That way we can use Lilja sparingly if at all, we can forget about Walker completely and MAB will have a better partner. Gus, Marshall - when the inevitable injuries hit - will be paired with a young, tough and mobile D-man and not another O'Donnell. I don't hate Lilja (or Odie) but if you can get Johnson for JVR you have to do it. imo.

[Vanflyer]

For me this is one of those times when +/- doesn't mean much.

I don't know. I mean he is a combined in -73 in 3 1/2 seasons of play prior to this year. That is astounding- regardless of what you think of the stat. The other thing to keep in mind is that last year and the year before, of the defense corps there was NOBODY even close to his plus minus. Most were plus and a couple guys were -1 , -2.

I did this study a week or so ago on trending team 5-on-5 GF / GA, PP GF / GA, PK GF / GA. The reason I did it was really to see how well a team was playing 5-on-5 vs. special and how impactful each were.

LA is ranked 30th in the league for GF 5-on-5 (1.38 g per game). They are ranked 7th overall in GA 5-on-5 (1.69). That gives them a combined rank of 22nd overall for 5-on-5 play. You can clearly see how that would affect +/-. Yet, despite LA's anemic offense, they are still very good defensively 5-on-5.

By comparison, the Flyers are ranked 3rd for GF 5-on-5 (2.19) and 22nd for GA (2.03). Their combined rank is 10th overall.

I loved Jack at the WJHC too, but there is something definitely wrong there. There are other forwards that are close to him every year, but no other D-man, which I don't get. I mean his partner should be there too. He is 25 now. When does the Jack Johnson "prospect" turn into Jack Johnson will never be?

[Podein25]

09:06 PM SoCalFlyfan, on Jan 12, 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

jack johnson is matt carle with a more physical edge and a little more willingness to jump up offensively

Yeah, I agree with that.

I'd say JJ can also shoot better than Carle. But then JackStraw's dog can shoot better than Carle

Johnson is worse than Carle defensively, which is not what we need.

If we are targetting young D-men through trade I would target Hamonic. He's in the top 10-20 D-men in blocks and hits, would be a plus palyer on a decent team, has some edge to his game, the odd fight. Has some talent and upside. JVR for Hamonic and a 3rd-4th rounder would do it for me

[orange_crush]

Johnson is worse than Carle defensively

Is that possible?

[Podein25]

Only theoretically

[Vanflyer]

@Podein25

That seems a bit steep to me. I would do it if you throw in an Islander 2nd round pick in this years draft. Hamonic was a late 2nd rounder.

[Vincent05]

Moving JVR would not pain me in the least - frankly I'd be happy to see him go. We won't miss his 2 weeks of strong hockey once a year.

Since you put it this way, I feel the same about Briere. We aren't expecting to win the Cup this year and next. Why not move him now while he has value, we can really remake our d if he's moved, I wouldn't mind at all as we have a nice young f group plus it will free cap space to resign them once their ELC expires.

[Podein25]

That seems a bit steep to me. I would do it if you throw in an Islander 2nd round pick in this years draft. Hamonic was a late 2nd rounder.

Agreed. That's about the right value proposition. They have very different cap situations though, so you may have to shave that 2nd down to a 3rd to incent the Isles to take JVR's future cap hit.

[canoli]

@Podein25

so you're one of the Carle-can't-defend guys, I didn't know that.

HamAndEggs is a good choice too - he's cheaper but imo has less upside than Johnson - but I wouldn't write off Johnson based on his +/-.

It's pure speculation but I get the feeling he's been left on his own coaching-wise since he joined the Kings. I've watched him a few times this year and I always get the feeling there's a lot of untapped potential there. I could be dead wrong but he strikes me as a guy who could use a change of scenery.

[edit: In any case I'd still trade JVR for him any day.]

Edited January 14, 2012 by canoli

[Podein25]

so you're one of the Carle-can't-defend guys, I didn't know that.

HamAndEggs is a good choice too - he's cheaper but imo has less upside than Johnson

Actually, I'm a defender of Carle. I don't think he's nearly as bad defensively as some. But more importantly, I recognize the other things he brings: mobility, vision and passing, which outweigh his defenisive weaknesses. The anti-Carle crowd refuses to place any value on his considerable skating and passing skills.

As for Hamonic vs Johnson. They are not the same type of D-men. I think we need Hamonic's attributes more than Johnson's. He has some snarl too, which I like. Plus he's from St. Malo, Manitoba, which I just plain like.

[flyercanuck]

Didn't you used to be Jack ******* Johnson?

Johnson just seems like more of the same of what we have. I really don't see him being an upgrade. I'd rather save trading a nice piece of our future for something that makes a difference.

[The Quigster]

If JVR is so bad why is it all these other teams are interested in him? How come they are not after Briere,Talbot,Voracek,Simmonds,Giroux,Hartnell,or any of the rookies,just JVR?

[flyercanuck]

Cause he's available?

[radoran]

If JVR is so bad why is it all these other teams are interested in him? How come they are not after Briere,Talbot,Voracek,Simmonds,Giroux,Hartnell,or any of the rookies,just JVR?

Briere has a No Movement Clause. Hartnell a No Trade.

Everybody's interested in Giroux, but the Flyers aren't looking to deal their Hart Trophy candidate.

Likewise, teams might be interested in Talbot, but as a solid vet presence signed at a great number long-term, why would the Flyers deal him?

I think the Flyers would move Voracek, Simmonds or Read/Zolnierczyk for the right deals (less likely on Read given his production and contract). I think they know they'd be insane to deal a 19-year-old Couturier who has shown such ice presence.

As the centerpiece of any deal, however, JVR's contract's reasonable number and length and "potential" (and career-high points pace) would make him an obvious candidate.

[flyercanuck]

@radoran

I said it shorter...

[canoli]

Didn't you used to be Jack ******* Johnson?

Johnson just seems like more of the same of what we have. I really don't see him being an upgrade. I'd rather save trading a nice piece of our future for something that makes a difference.

Yeah yeah we all know you want Weber - and you're prepared to move heaven and earth to get him (slight exaggeration on my part).

I just don't think we need a "difference-maker" on the blue line. We want one, of course, who wouldn't? But the way I see it 90% of our defensive liabilities are in net, courtesy of the Big FA Goalie we got this summer.

Can we be tougher around the crease? Sure. We're missing Pronger and it shows; it shows on the PP too. But when Bob is in net things look a whole lot better on both sides of the ice.

Last night, take any of our D-men and change sweaters with him and Weber - do we win? Does Weber make a difference? Not so much because it still comes down to "Can the goaltender stop the puck?"

*******************************************

Once again Bryzgalov is whining to the media about bad bounces, deflections: "What can I do? What can I do? Nothing," Bryzgalov said of the odd goal.

This whole "Victim" b.s. is really beginning to bother me now. Check this out:

"Good things happen when you throw things at the net," Predators coach Barry Trotz said after the Flyers' first-ever regulation loss in Nashville. "You can't fault the goaltender."

Really Barry? You're going to chime in and support Bryzgalov too? This is getting downright silly.