A Night When CBJ and NYI Should Make us Mad

[mojo1917]

Hextall and last summer.

There were 5 goalies "in the system"...one was injured Stolarz, the other had shown he was a tweener Lyon, the other was Neuvirth, supposedly getting healthy, Elliot under contract, and Carter Christ.  Is anyone really honestly looking for a goalie ? when you're thinking, I got some guys for LHV I got a guy coming back, who played decent, I got the second coming, I got Neuvirth, I got Elliot... I mean, I didn't have goalie as need last summer and I think only those with 20/20 hindsight think that now.

 

He did whiff on the 2/3 C he didn't bolster the D-corps, but what was available ? the fa market was stinky last year, it's not much better this year, I am glad he didn't "make a move to make a move". maybe he could have made a trade for one of the universally agreed upon needs but again who of the lovely blossoms gets shipped out for 3 years of Duncan Keith ?  I dunno,  seems to me more and more that Hextall had this situation assessed correctly and these guys weren't at "go-time" yet. Fletcher's actions sort of confirmed that. 

 

5/8th of this mess is because Dave Scott can't stay in his lane.

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

Hextall and last summer.

There were 5 goalies "in the system"...one was injured Stolarz, the other had shown he was a tweener Lyon, the other was Neuvirth, supposedly getting healthy, Elliot under contract, and Carter Christ.  Is anyone really honestly looking for a goalie ? when you're thinking, I got some guys for LHV I got a guy coming back, who played decent, I got the second coming, I got Neuvirth, I got Elliot... I mean, I didn't have goalie as need last summer and I think only those with 20/20 hindsight think that now.

 

From the outside, I agree. We were full up on goalies. But did anyone feel confident about the two starters?

 

Stolarz was a possibility for a call up, but I think Lyon was seen as an AHL guy good enough for emergency duty, and Hart was in no way part of Ron's NHL plans. 

 

And don't forget, Hextall was on the INSIDE with all the knowlege of injury history and off season surgeries.

 

It was definitely a perfect storm of misfortune, and boy, was it nasty!

 

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, brelic said:

Elliott and Neuvirth. 

 

And this was the major factor.

 

Bring back one sure I guess.

 

Bring back both? Suicidal.

[ruxpin]

13 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Slight edit

 

You know, you might have a point. I don't know if that's why it was happening over and over, but it's a Hakstol hallmark way back to college. In fact, there was an article laying all of that out and almost touting it as a strength.

 

His clubs would always start slow, and ramp it up in the second half, exactly like we saw with the Flyers. 

Thank you for the edit!  I came to that word and it wasn't what I wanted but couldn't get my head to come up with "personalities."  That's perfect. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

We were full up on goalies.

 

Full up on unreliable goalies and inexperienced goalies.

 

Hextall f**led up big time.

 

No other way around it.

 

And it bit them in the ass.

[vis]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

What is the issue? Personnel? Inexperience? Inability to execute? A mixture of everything?

Little bit of everything.  You need a coach that holds players accountable and communicates well with his players.  But you also need buy-in from the leadership group and you need them to set an example and hold players accountable as well.  Not sure they had either with Hakstol or the current leadership group.  

 

We hear about how Giroux is a great leader by example.  But I'm not sure that's enough.  Like, sometimes you gotta tell the other players when they aren't getting it done.  I wonder if Giroux does that.  This goes back to Pronger's departure: I don't think they've had someone  willing to have difficult conversations since he left.

[vis]

50 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Until this season, we were strapped by the cap, but I don't think there's any excuse for this past summer or even this deadline. The deadline I'll allow that we didn't want to give up the prospects it would have taken just for a big "if."

The Great Unknown is whether Hextall had options available to him that he passed on in favor of holding onto prospects - and whether he held on too tight.  Hard for us to know, really.  However, it sounds like he'd been criticized internally for not making some moves.  Also, I'm sure the cap space didn't sit well with the higher-ups.

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, vis said:

You need a coach that holds players accountable and communicates well with his players. 

 

And lights a fire under them...

 

 

[tucson83]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

 

all of the above!

 

that's a good point, you have to wonder if this roster in general needs a new face lift meaning we need more players that can shoot and score, we have so many players that are two-way and have no finish when it comes to putting pucks in the net, that's why we are having problems scoring goals. when they are passive it means they dont know who can put the puck in the net. it means alot of players that cant put pucks in the net have to go. grinding for goals is never going to work in todays nhl, you need players that can put pucks in the net.

 

i mean you watch columbus and the islanders players, they know how to put the pucks into the net, that's difference between those teams and the flyers.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, tucson83 said:

 

i mean you watch columbus and the islanders players, they know how to put the pucks into the net, that's difference between those teams and the flyers.

I was with you until this last part, specifically regarding the islanders.  They were actually worse than the Flyers in overall offense and power play (3rd worst overall on PP). 

 

The brilliance of Trotz is he had them playing incredible team defense. Best overall. 

 

The Flyers and them were similar in offense, but the Flyers with nearly "who cares?" better numbers.  The reason the Isles are still playing and the flyers are not is because we gave up over a goal more a game than them. While they were first in the league, we were third from last. 

 

I don't want that to undermine your basic premise, though. We need more shooters.  I don't want the pendulum to swing too far, but we're out of balance with too many mucker/grinders. 

[tucson83]

17 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I was with you until this last part, specifically regarding the islanders.  They were actually worse than the Flyers in overall offense and power play (3rd worst overall on PP). 

 

The brilliance of Trotz is he had them playing incredible team defense. Best overall. 

 

The Flyers and them were similar in offense, but the Flyers with nearly "who cares?" better numbers.  The reason the Isles are still playing and the flyers are not is because we gave up over a goal more a game than them. While they were first in the league, we were third from last. 

 

I don't want that to undermine your basic premise, though. We need more shooters.  I don't want the pendulum to swing too far, but we're out of balance with too many mucker/grinders. 

i agree.

[OccamsRazor]

42 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I was with you until this last part, specifically regarding the islanders.  They were actually worse than the Flyers in overall offense and power play (3rd worst overall on PP). 

 

The brilliance of Trotz is he had them playing incredible team defense. Best overall. 

 

The Flyers and them were similar in offense, but the Flyers with nearly "who cares?" better numbers.  The reason the Isles are still playing and the flyers are not is because we gave up over a goal more a game than them. While they were first in the league, we were third from last. 

 

I don't want that to undermine your basic premise, though. We need more shooters.  I don't want the pendulum to swing too far, but we're out of balance with too many mucker/grinders. 

 

A few to many passengers...

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

A few to many passengers...

Yes.  But i don't want to mix passengers with those that are simply too many duplicate players that are working hard. We do have passengers.  But my nagging concern is what tucson was talking about.  Too many redundant grinders and passers. Like a bunch working hard grinding to get the puck (it happened once. It was a Wednesday. I remember because it WASN'T raining) but once they get it and can pass it, there's few if any to pass it to that know what to do with it to take a good shot. 

 

We have a bunch of point guards with no jumper but no shooting guard, power forwards or centers. 

 

But yeah, the passenger thing, too. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

Yes.  But i don't want to mix passengers with those that are simply too many duplicate players that are working hard. We do have passengers.  But my nagging concern is what tucson was talking about.  Too many redundant grinders and passers. Like a bunch working hard grinding to get the puck (it happened once. It was a Wednesday. I remember because it WASN'T raining) but once they get it and can pass it, there's few if any to pass it to that know what to do with it to take a good shot. 

 

We have a bunch of point guards with no jumper but no shooting guard, power forwards or centers. 

 

But yeah, the passenger thing, too. 

 

No sorry but the passengers need to be identified and removed.

[mkscrewy]

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-no-ticket-gif-5671167

 

 

man how do you insert a gif here?

[ruxpin]

36 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No sorry but the passengers need to be identified and removed.

I agree. Not really arguing that point. 

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I agree. Not really arguing that point. 

 

And I agree they need more shooters.

 

It's been well documented during the games of the pass pass pass to pass somemore.

 

But will they do something about it.

 

I mean damn you have to think that if WE see they have to right?

 

Or will they make the excuse again about the coaching change and all that crap but we know they have passed to damn much since Berube.

 

They need more guy who want the puck on their stick with the game on the line and who intend to BE the one who wins not always wanting to be the guy who sets the guy up who wins it.

 

It's really a mentality thing.

[OccamsRazor]

9 hours ago, mkscrewy said:

https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-no-ticket-gif-5671167

 

 

man how do you insert a gif here?

 

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

My favorite Indiana Jones movie!   (hated movies #2 and #4)

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:30 PM, ruxpin said:

I was with you until this last part, specifically regarding the islanders.  They were actually worse than the Flyers in overall offense and power play (3rd worst overall on PP). 

 

The brilliance of Trotz is he had them playing incredible team defense. Best overall. 

 

The Flyers and them were similar in offense, but the Flyers with nearly "who cares?" better numbers.  The reason the Isles are still playing and the flyers are not is because we gave up over a goal more a game than them. While they were first in the league, we were third from last. 

 

I don't want that to undermine your basic premise, though. We need more shooters.  I don't want the pendulum to swing too far, but we're out of balance with too many mucker/grinders. 

 

In all fairness to Hextall, those shooters are coming. Farabee, Frost, Ratcliffe are just three examples. You can also add Laberge to the list as he showed goal scoring acumen in the 15 games he played in Lehigh Valley. Rubtsov will also be a goal scorer. Don't forget that Konecny got 24 this year while getting next to no power play time. Lindblom got 17 and he played nearly a third of the season on the fourth line. Get him time on the PP and he's good for 25. The offense is a work in progress right now and until the offense is ready to blossom, the Flyers are going to have to play a defense-oriented system at first and they're going to have to be opportunistic.

 

What I do expect is that when Knoblauch is let go and a new PP coach comes in, they'll get PP1 back on track by having Giroux on the left side to tee up bombs and I expect that PP2 will be given some much needed attention and that we'll see it blossom with Lindblom, Patrick, Konecny, Meyers and Sanheim all on it. 

[flyercanuck]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:15 PM, brelic said:

 

That's on Hextall. He was nothing if not dogmatic in his approach. 

 

Or, as Homer put it several times, unrelenting (or was it unwavering?). 

 

Now, imagine if the CBJ deadline gamble didn't pay off. How the story would be different - go all in, forsake a ton of draft picks, and likely lose FOUR major cogs in the offseason. Panarin, Bob, Duchene, and Dzingel.

 

Most of the time, that's what happens - deadline deals don't pan out. 

 

As for the summer, though, I agree, Hextall whiffed on getting a goalie, defenseman, and 2/3C. He was relying on Vorobyev and Patrick, our young D corps, and Elliott and Neuvirth. 

 

 

 

 It hasn't paid off yet...unless they were willing to give up those assets for ONE round of success. Not saying they can't go further, they just haven't as of yet.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

In all fairness to Hextall, those shooters are coming. Farabee, Frost, Ratcliffe are just three examples. You can also add Laberge to the list as he showed goal scoring acumen in the 15 games he played in Lehigh Valley. Rubtsov will also be a goal scorer. Don't forget that Konecny got 24 this year while getting next to no power play time. Lindblom got 17 and he played nearly a third of the season on the fourth line. Get him time on the PP and he's good for 25. The offense is a work in progress right now and until the offense is ready to blossom, the Flyers are going to have to play a defense-oriented system at first and they're going to have to be opportunistic.

 

What I do expect is that when Knoblauch is let go and a new PP coach comes in, they'll get PP1 back on track by having Giroux on the left side to tee up bombs and I expect that PP2 will be given some much needed attention and that we'll see it blossom with Lindblom, Patrick, Konecny, Meyers and Sanheim all on it. 

From here, it's impossible to disagree with any of that.  My assessment was simply about "now," but you're right that the cavalry seems to be coming. 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 It hasn't paid off yet...unless they were willing to give up those assets for ONE round of success. Not saying they can't go further, they just haven't as of yet.

I agree. 

 

On the other hand, they did finally win the organization's first playoff round.  

 

But yeah, if they lose this next round, the tradeoff remains huge. 

[Howie58]

In reflecting on this team, don't forget our poor overtime and shoot-out performance.  

 

https://broadstreetbuzz.com/2017/09/03/philadelphia-flyers-sunday-number-shootout/

 

If memory serves, only the Panthers have a worse percentage in the shootout.  I do not think that is strictly a goaltending issue.  I believe it reflects our drafting/trading--we haven't gotten enough Cam Atkinsons or Teuvo Terravianens.  I'd say this team thinks it is in the Golden Era when scoring a goal or two and having Bernie backstopping would win games and a Cup.  Sadly, it's almost as if they forget Reggie Leach's presence.  

[flyercanuck]

33 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

In reflecting on this team, don't forget our poor overtime and shoot-out performance.  

 

https://broadstreetbuzz.com/2017/09/03/philadelphia-flyers-sunday-number-shootout/

 

If memory serves, only the Panthers have a worse percentage in the shootout.  I do not think that is strictly a goaltending issue.  I believe it reflects our drafting/trading--we haven't gotten enough Cam Atkinsons or Teuvo Terravianens.  I'd say this team thinks it is in the Golden Era when scoring a goal or two and having Bernie backstopping would win games and a Cup.  Sadly, it's almost as if they forget Reggie Leach's presence.  

 

There's hopefully help coming with that as well. Farabee has the skill to make a difference in both those areas. In the OHL coaches poll, the top shootout specialists were Mathew Strome at #1 in the east, and Frost and Ratcliffe #1 & 2 in the west.

 

 And as you mentioned, Hart.