OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Boston, Columbus, Arizona or the Rangers can have him I would find other options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Boston, Columbus, Arizona or the Rangers can have him I would find other options... If the difference between getting Hayes and not getting him is about $500,000-$1M/year, I think the smart move is to get him. There aren't any other better UFA options outside of Duchene, and the trade route will be more costly in terms of assets. Put another way and IMO, Hayes at $6.75M x 6 years (instead of, say, $6M x 6 years) is a better move than giving up Ghost and/or a 1st or 2nd round pick for Karlsson (who will command a similar contract) or Kadri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, brelic said: If the difference between getting Hayes and not getting him is about $500,000-$1M/year, I think the smart move is to get him. There aren't any other better UFA options outside of Duchene, and the trade route will be more costly in terms of assets. Put another way and IMO, Hayes at $6.75M x 6 years (instead of, say, $6M x 6 years) is a better move than giving up Ghost and/or a 1st or 2nd round pick for Karlsson (who will command a similar contract) or Kadri. Sure but from my stand point I don't want a 3rd line center making 6.75 for 5 more years when Patrick take the 2nd line spot. Now you have a contract you can't move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 Just now, brelic said: Hayes at $6.75M x 6 years I honestly can't stomach that. If the FA market was so weak/bad that the best available center happened to be Mike York, would we just pay top dollar regardless of his intrinsic value? At some point you have to say No to the market. Let someone else do that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Podein25 said: I honestly can't stomach that. If the FA market was so weak/bad that the best available center happened to be Mike York, would we just pay top dollar regardless of his intrinsic value? At some point you have to say No to the market. Let someone else do that. I would rather roll the dice as Patrick on the 2nd before I commit to that and then go from there. Sorry I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Podein25 said: I honestly can't stomach that. If the FA market was so weak/bad that the best available center happened to be Mike York, would we just pay top dollar regardless of his intrinsic value? At some point you have to say No to the market. Let someone else do that. I agree when it comes to players on the decline. Hayes is not that, so given Fletch's options, it wouldn't surprise me to see a contract that is higher than he may have initially wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I would rather roll the dice as Patrick on the 2nd before I commit to that and then go from there. Sorry I would. Maybe you would, and that's fine. But Fletch does not want to do that. He's said it publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, brelic said: Maybe you would, and that's fine. But Fletch does not want to do that. He's said it publicly. There is always trades you don't have to give in to their demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, brelic said: Maybe you would, and that's fine. But Fletch does not want to do that. He's said it publicly. I would kick the tires of Anders Lee. He is only 28 and can play C/LW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: There is always trades you don't have to give in to their demands. I know, he could do that too... but it comes back to what I posted above. Which scenario would you rather have? IN: Hayes + $750,000 more per season than initially wanted because of limited market OUT: No one IN: Karlsson (RFA, but probably somewhere in the $6M range for 6-7 years) OUT: Ghost or if they don't want him or can't fit him under the cap, 11thOA and/or a top prospect IN: Kadri (3 more years at $4.5M per) OUT: Ghost or Myers + 2nd rounder Because Fletch *will* address 2C. That much is clear. So of those scenarios (and I'm sure there are others we just don't know about), which would you prefer? I'd prefer the Hayes signing first because he's a clear upgrade right now, and no assets are lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, brelic said: I know, he could do that too... but it comes back to what I posted above. Which scenario would you rather have? IN: Hayes + $750,000 more per season than initially wanted because of limited market OUT: No one IN: Karlsson (RFA, but probably somewhere in the $6M range for 6-7 years) OUT: Ghost or if they don't want him or can't fit him under the cap, 11thOA and/or a top prospect IN: Kadri (3 more years at $4.5M per) OUT: Ghost or Myers + 2nd rounder Because Fletch *will* address 2C. That much is clear. So of those scenarios (and I'm sure there are others we just don't know about), which would you prefer? I'd prefer the Hayes signing first because he's a clear upgrade right now, and no assets are lost. None of those I will elaborate more headed out the door. Option D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, brelic said: I agree when it comes to players on the decline. Hayes is not that, so given Fletch's options, it wouldn't surprise me to see a contract that is higher than he may have initially wanted. He will be by the end of the contract! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure but from my stand point I don't want a 3rd line center making 6.75 for 5 more years when Patrick take the 2nd line spot. Now you have a contract you can't move. Completely agree with this. I like Hayes but for me the term is absolutely critical here. Don't want him blocking Patrick or possibly rubtsov, O'Brien, frost. Sure rubtsov and O'Brien may not pan out. But Patrick and frost need a clear path in a few years.... That is why I prefer Kadri as he is on 4.5mil for another three years. That's perfect.... And yes it will cost assets. I would seriously consider the 11th for him or ghost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, ctid said: And yes it will cost assets. I would seriously consider the 11th for him or ghost. I wouldn't offer that no need to overpay for a guy who is on a team who is desperate to free up space. Give them the 2nd rounder. That should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctid Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I wouldn't offer that no need to overpay for a guy who is on a team who is desperate to free up space. Give them the 2nd rounder. That should be enough. I don't think a 2nd rounder is enough. I sure hope so, and in hindsight the 11th is probably too steep a price to pay. But I hope we drop Hayes due to the potential long term and figure out a fair deal for Kadri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I would rather roll the dice as Patrick on the 2nd before I commit to that and then go from there. Sorry I would. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Sure but from my stand point I don't want a 3rd line center making 6.75 for 5 more years when Patrick take the 2nd line spot. Now you have a contract you can't move. If Patrick is only a year or two away from being a legit 2nd line center, why not just move G to the second line center spot and Patrick to the third . You will have JVR and Lindblom as your top 2 left wingers, Konecny and Jake on the right. Then you can have Rubstov Frost and Farabee battle for the third line left wing position and steal Kapanen from Toronto for third line right wing. Fourth line is Laughton, Hartman and Raffl. Giroux can go back to wing in year or two,even if Patrick ends up a flop Frost can step in s third line center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: If Patrick is only a year or two away from being a legit 2nd line center, why not just move G to the second line center spot and Patrick to the third . You will have JVR and Lindblom as your top 2 left wingers, Konecny and Jake on the right. Then you can have Rubstov Frost and Farabee battle for the third line left wing position and steal Kapanen from Toronto for third line right wing. Fourth line is Laughton, Hartman and Raffl. Giroux can go back to wing in year or two,even if Patrick ends up a flop Frost can step in s third line center. My main reason is i like Giroux better on the wing than at center. However at this point i wouldn't say no to anything quite yet. Who would you have on the top LW spot?? JVR? I get what you're saying about Rubtsov and Farabee. But those guys could use some seasoning in the AHL before tasking them with minutes in the NHL. I am sure AV will have most of it figured out by start of the season. Not sure how easy it will be to steal Kapanen he will go to the highest bidder if they have to move him. There will be several options i think explored before they chose. Hayes will be the first domino to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: If Patrick is only a year or two away from being a legit 2nd line center, why not just move G to the second line center spot and Patrick to the third . You will have JVR and Lindblom as your top 2 left wingers, Konecny and Jake on the right. Then you can have Rubstov Frost and Farabee battle for the third line left wing position and steal Kapanen from Toronto for third line right wing. Fourth line is Laughton, Hartman and Raffl. Giroux can go back to wing in year or two,even if Patrick ends up a flop Frost can step in s third line center. I mean, these are all good ideas, and probably closer to what Hextall would have done. Fletch, however, will do a lot more. He has different, more urgent marching orders. We don’t have to like it, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: My main reason is i like Giroux better on the wing than at center. However at this point i wouldn't say no to anything quite yet. Who would you have on the top LW spot?? JVR? I get what you're saying about Rubtsov and Farabee. But those guys could use some seasoning in the AHL before tasking them with minutes in the NHL. I am sure AV will have most of it figured out by start of the season. Not sure how easy it will be to steal Kapanen he will go to the highest bidder if they have to move him. There will be several options i think explored before they chose. Hayes will be the first domino to fall. I agree G is better on wing, but if we cant get a center, we dont have much choice. So Coots , JVR , Konecny on the top line . G , Lindblom and Voracek second line. By having G on the second line he doesnt face the other teams top line. Hopefully we can offersheet Kapanen and Toronto is not in a position to match. Let's hope they are still in cap hell come July 1. To me this is better then giving Hayes 7 million, and if we still are going after a top dman we still have Ghost and our pick as bait, but only for a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, brelic said: I mean, these are all good ideas, and probably closer to what Hextall would have done. Fletch, however, will do a lot more. He has different, more urgent marching orders. We don’t have to like it, but it is what it is. I think a big reason we want Hayes is due to his PK skills, which has been our worst problem for years. I just think paying him 7 million opens up a big problem when Coots is up for a new deal in 3 years , you will have to pay Coots 9 million. If we cant sign Hayes ,then I assume we are gonna go after Kadri, I dont think we want Duschene. So our assets will be spent on a center. I still think if we give up Ghost or the 11th ,I would rather use that for another skilled vet on defense. Moving G to center is much better than wasting assets for a one year, second line, soon to be third line center, when we have Patrick, Frost and Rubstov who are maybe a year off from filling that role. Edited June 18, 2019 by RonJeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertaflyer Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 Bob McKenzieVerified account @TSNBobMcKenzie 1h1 hour ago More It’s not yet a done deal but PHI continues to work toward a long-term contract for pending UFA centre Kevin Hayes and, for now anyway, there’s a sense of optimism. Stay tuned. Curious on the market value for Hayes. Six years at north of $6.5 million perhaps? 1 reply 12 retweets 17 likes Reply 1 Retweet 12 Like 17 Direct message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 hours ago, albertaflyer said: Bob McKenzieVerified account @TSNBobMcKenzie 1h1 hour ago More It’s not yet a done deal but PHI continues to work toward a long-term contract for pending UFA centre Kevin Hayes and, for now anyway, there’s a sense of optimism. Stay tuned. Curious on the market value for Hayes. Six years at north of $6.5 million perhaps? 1 reply 12 retweets 17 likes Reply 1 Retweet 12 Like 17 Direct message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 6/4/2019 at 2:24 PM, Podein25 said: There's almost no chance Fletch doesn't screw this up and max the term. I think I'm off on my prediction though: it's gonna be closer to $50M. Hayes is gonna be so fat come camp it's not even funny. BUMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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