Extend Giroux Now

[radoran]

An inspiring leader who has led the team to an unprecedented level of success, there is no question Giroux should be rewarded with an extension.

 

We will always look at his decade of leadership as a highlight of the franchise's illustrious history.

 

Extend Giroux now. Let him retire a Flyer. Reward him for his achievement.

 

It's the right thing to do.

 

[OccamsRazor]

I don't even know how to respond to this.....maybe i'll wait till there is less bourbon in my blood stream.

[flyer4ever]

Extend him every courtesy as he packs his bags and gets a limo to the airport. 

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

I don't even know how to respond to this.....maybe i'll wait till there is less bourbon in my blood stream.

 

Why not respond on the context in  which it was posted?

 

[flyercanuck]

[tucson83]

[musky]

Should have Traded him a few years ago.

[FD19372]

11 hours ago, radoran said:

An inspiring leader who has led the team to an unprecedented level of success, there is no question Giroux should be rewarded with an extension.

 

We will always look at his decade of leadership as a highlight of the franchise's illustrious history.

 

Extend Giroux now. Let him retire a Flyer. Reward him for his achievement.

 

It's the right thing to do.

 

You're drunk...go home.

[FD19372]

4 minutes ago, musky said:

Should have Traded him a few years ago.

Yes, for Barzal and Lee. 

[tucson83]

13 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Yes, for Barzal and Lee. 

i think that probably would have happened if ed snider was still there, god rest his soul, i miss him alot. actually when the 2016 playoff disaster happened, ed would have demanded that core to be stripped.

 

it happened with carter and richards after a year when lavy was hired.

Edited May 2, 2021 by tucson83

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

i think that probably would have happened if ed snider was still there, god rest his soul, i miss him alot. actually when the 2016 playoff disaster happened, ed would have demanded that core to be stripped.

 

it happened with carter and richards after a year when lavy was hired.

I criticized Snider for his impulsiveness. He made drastic changes at times, where tinkering was necessary, and did things like trading young players for 39 year old has-beens. However, the patience mantra that the Flyers have taken on, irritates the hell out of me even moreso. I mean, it's good when it comes to some prospects but to have undying loyalty to your veteran leaders, who haven't lived up to their billing as captain and top tier right wing, has gotten old and in fact, completely rusted. At this point, we need more of the Ed Snider approach. Tired of the coddled athlete.

[tucson83]

25 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I criticized Snider for his impulsiveness. He made drastic changes at times, where tinkering was necessary, and did things like trading young players for 39 year old has-beens. However, the patience mantra that the Flyers have taken on, irritates the hell out of me even moreso. I mean, it's good when it comes to some prospects but to have undying loyalty to your veteran leaders, who haven't lived up to their billing as captain and top tier right wing, has gotten old and in fact, completely rusted. At this point, we need more of the Ed Snider approach. Tired of the coddled athlete.

i just think this leadership was never going to get this team to the top because it's just what they are. over the last 10 years with this leadership we were a good enough 500 team that's a one and done playoff team. if we were anything better than that then it would be different story, i would have no issues with this leadership.

 

i think the av haters just want to keep hoping that this leadership group will win a cup by simply switching coaches and that just doesnt work. if you are switching coaches every few years with this same leadership and getting the same results, it's the players.

 

coaches can only do so much and the talent level on the team has to do the rest.

[musky]

4 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Yes, for Barzal and Lee. 

Well you wiuld have to throw in half the team,and the isles would still lose that trade.

[pilldoc]

6 hours ago, musky said:

Should have Traded him a few years ago.

You really don’t want to open that can of worms.  That has been discussed ad nauseam on here.....

[GratefulFlyers]

Claude Giroux:

 

All-Time Leaders

2nd in Assists (Clarke 206 more games)

3rd in Points - 851 in 938 games (Clarke 1210 in 1144; Barber 883 in 903)

7th in GW goals (Giroux's pace much slower; all top 50 ex. Barber and Clarke played fewer games)

8th in Assists/Game

9th in Goals 

9th in PP goals

14th in Points/Game - 0.907

39th in Goals/Game - 0.289

 

All-Time Playoffs leaders

6th in Points (all top 5 played many more PO games)

10th in Points/Game (0.859)

11th in Goals (1-10 all played more PO games ex. Briere and Kerr)

16th in Goals/Game - 0.294 (Briere #1 - 0.544)

 

I didn't post this to propose or convince anyone of anything. I was curious whether he deserves the PO choke-artist or PO under-performer label. Also I wondered what example he has set over the years as a lead-by-example type of captain.

 

Maybe he is a terrible leader; or maybe he's a fine leader and captain but wrong for the Flyers. I won't pretend to know. As they say in the car ads "your mileage may vary."

 

[edit: Stats courtesy of https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/teams/philadelphia-flyers-players-career-nhl-stats.html ]

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by GratefulFlyers

[pilldoc]

52 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I didn't post this to propose or convince anyone of anything. I was curious whether he deserves the PO choke-artist or PO under-performer label.

 

See here is the thing about STATS, anyone can make them say what they want to say.  Lets look at Giroux and and you mentioned "The Playoffs"  After all that is the name of the game.

 

54 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

All-Time Playoffs leaders

6th in Points (all top 5 played many more PO games)

10th in Points/Game (0.859)

 

 

The last meaningful playoff run for Giroux was 9 years ago in the 2011-12 season. Where he had 17 points in 10 games.  Since 2011 the Flyers have been in 4 Playoff series.  Those total 35 games he sits with a whopping 18 PTS (4 Goals/14 Assists)  for a measly 0.51 PTS / game. 

 

Though the argument can be made that in the years between 2009-2012 he had a stronger cast of supporting players with the likes of a Jagr / Hartnell / Briere / cough-cough Carter/Richards, the said counter argument can be made that a truly super star player should make others around them better.  In the years since those players have come and gone Giroux has NOT driven the play.

4 goals in the last 18 PO games (in the past 9 years) simply does not cut it.  So yes, based on the recent body of work he does NOT show up in the Playoffs. Period. End of Story.

 

 

[pilldoc]

Just for giggles lets compare "the best player in the world"** to Crosby and his playoff stats...

 

**"When the best player in the world comes up to you and tells you, 'I don't know who you're planning on starting tonight, but I want that first shift', that says everything you need to know about Claude Giroux right there," said Laviolette.

 

 

only the last 2 Pens playoff appearance has Crosby been pedestrian ..... but his body of work in the Playoffs vs. Giroux is much greater.

 

 

[tucson83]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

Just for giggles lets compare "the best player in the world"** to Crosby and his playoff stats...

 

**"When the best player in the world comes up to you and tells you, 'I don't know who you're planning on starting tonight, but I want that first shift', that says everything you need to know about Claude Giroux right there," said Laviolette.

 

 

only the last 2 Pens playoff appearance has Crosby been pedestrian ..... but his body of work in the Playoffs vs. Giroux is much greater.

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, pilldoc said:

Though the argument can be made that in the years between 2009-2012 he had a stronger cast of supporting players with the likes of a Jagr / Hartnell / Briere / cough-cough Carter/Richards, the said counter argument can be made that a truly super star player should make others around them better.  In the years since those players have come and gone Giroux has NOT driven the play.

4 goals in the last 18 PO games (in the past 9 years) simply does not cut it.  So yes, based on the recent body of work he does NOT show up in the Playoffs. Period. End of Story.

 

 

This is the argument to be made.

Those post 2012 teams were one line teams. 

There would have been zero playoffs if not for 28 .

No one was lifting Dale Weisse, Matt Read, Boyd Gordon and Chris Vandevelde.

The Flyers mismanaged the last 10 years.  

No player would have had "championship success" with those rosters. To put the failure of the franchise at the feet of one player is foolishness. 

 

@radoran

Was it too quiet? 

What is there to say about this topic that hasn't been said?

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by mojo1917

[pilldoc]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

To put the failure of the franchise at the feet of one player is foolishness. 

 

Not putting the blame of the franchise all on Giroux, BUT, the name of the game is scoring in the playoffs.  He simply did not do that and the stats reflect that. 

 

16 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

Was it too quiet? 

What is there to say about this topic that hasn't been said?

 

Agree .. 10+ years this topic has been beaten to death.....

 

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The Flyers mismanaged the last 10 years. 

 

That is the understatement of the decade.  Sadly ....

[radoran]

13 hours ago, FD19372 said:

You're drunk...go home.

 

Wait... I AM (was? Will be?) Home...

[radoran]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

The Flyers mismanaged the last 10 years.  

 

And unfortunately their choice of leadership is emblematic of the problem.

 

I don't say Giroux was solely to blame. He's just the poster player for it.

 

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

Was it too quiet? 

What is there to say about this topic that hasn't been said?

 

Losing three games in a row to the Devils after his incredible heroics to salvage at least two points. They came away from four games against a bad team behind them in the standings - a division rival - with two points, giving up seven.

 

They come off that and are still talking about bad bounces, bad luck, every guy playing hard (wait, what?). The continual "woe is us we are better than we actually play" line is beyond tiresome.

 

As long as I have to hear that, expect this drum to be pounded.

[flyer4ever]

Giroux was a good player on mostly bad teams. He is now an albatross contract that will cost a viable asset to the Kraken. He has no legacy with the Flyers. Legacies in professional team sports are based on championships. Get what you can for him and move on. I'm sure there's a palatable deal to be made by taking back salary. 

[tucson83]

another thing fans have to look at is talent level in our division,  rangers, sens, redwings, bruins, islanders, devils, i mean it's going to get so much tougher for us to compete against those teams when we are picking in the lower rounds, that's why im saying we have to bring in some top 5 players on this team in the offseason because we are going to out of the playoffs for a long time if we dont.

[radoran]

15 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

we have to bring in some top 5 players on this team in the offseason because we are going to out of the playoffs for a long time if we dont.

 

Not sure if those guys exist this offseason:

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2022/caphit/all/all/ufa

 

Unless you're looking at a Taylor Hall, or RNH on the forward side. It'll be interesting to see where Dougie Hamilton goes (if anywhere).

 

The real issue is that the fundamental organizational phillyosophy of "make the playoffs and anything can happen" hasn't changed and I don't believe it will change under the current executive leadership, barring a complete breakdown of fans attending games and emptying their pockets for ancillary revenue.
 

The ticket office asserting that they have "one of the best rosters in the NHL" is not a coincidence. After missing the playoffs in five of the past nine years, they actually seem to believe it.

 

I can practically write the "not an excuse, but..." talking points about how they were really a top team until Covid and then they never really recovered. Also, Niskanen leaving. And someone stole their car. An Earthquake. A terrible flood.

 

The title of this thread is not 100% in jest, I fully expect them to extend Giroux and have him "retire a Flyer" and we'll hear all about his points per game and second place in points for the organization, how they got out of the first round that one time, and put him in the Flyers Hall of Fame.

 

And didn't we have a nice time?