Howie58 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 (edited) Greetings: While Philly is the underdog, our recent record points to an upset: https://www.docsports.com/free-picks/nhl-hockey/2021/philadelphia-flyers-vs-pittsburgh-penguins-prediction-11-4-2021-nhl-pick-tips-and-odds.html It looks like Jarry versus Hart. Here is lineup: Flyers projected lineup Claude Giroux -- Sean Couturier -- Travis Konecny Joel Farabee -- Derick Brassard -- Cam Atkinson Oskar Lindblom -- Scott Laughton -- James van Riemsdyk Nicolas Aube-Kubel -- Nate Thompson -- Zack MacEwen Ivan Provorov -- Justin Braun Travis Sanheim -- Rasmus Ristolainen Keith Yandle -- Nick Seeler Carter Hart Martin Jones Scratched: Patrick Brown Injured: Kevin Hayes (abdominal), Ryan Ellis (lower body) Penguins projected lineup Jake Guentzel -- Jeff Carter -- Danton Heinen Jason Zucker -- Evan Rodrigues -- Kasperi Kapanen Zach Aston-Reese -- Teddy Blueger -- Brock McGinn Drew O'Connor -- Brian Boyle -- Dominik Simon Mike Matheson -- Kris Letang Pierre-Olivier Joseph -- John Marino Juuso Riikola -- Mark Friedman Tristan Jarry Casey DeSmith Scratched: Taylor Fedun, Sam Lafferty Injured: Evgeni Malkin (knee), Bryan Rust (lower body) COVID-19 protocol: Sidney Crosby, Brian Dumoulin, Marcus Pettersson, Chad Ruhwedel Status report Neither team held a morning skate Thursday. ... Crosby, the Penguins first-line center, will not play for an eighth time in nine games this season after he and Dumoulin, a defenseman, entered NHL COVID-19 protocol Wednesday. Crosby missed the first seven games this season after having wrist surgery Sept. 8. … Letang could return after missing four games in COVID-19 protocol; he was removed from protocol Monday. Edited November 4, 2021 by Howie58 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Man...I thought we looked lame down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 I hate the fcking pengooins ! ... ALOT 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky13 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 (edited) …It’s deeply weird to see the names Carter and Kapanen in the Penguins lineup. Edited November 4, 2021 by Lucky13 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Wow what a **** start for the flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Laughton scores to tie the game. My brain is very confused. There's a good chance my head explodes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) Jarry was very good tonight...a wee bit better than Carter, who was no slouch. I wish our power play had more juice. Taryn and Hartnell commented on the quantity versus quality of our shots. Some truth to that. Overall, glad we got the point. On the other hand, we need Hayes back and have to worry about Ivan and Oskar not contributing more offense. Edited November 5, 2021 by Howie58 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 They just lost to Picksburg WITHOUT Crosby and Malkin? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 These were two decimated teams playing each other. So, whatever read we got may be misleading. But I still worry about our offense. Ellis' situation--hope this isn't a taste of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Howie58 said: These were two decimated teams playing each other. So, whatever read we got may be misleading. But I still worry about our offense. Ellis' situation--hope this isn't a taste of the future. hate to say it but you are not going to win cup if you dont hit on players aka hextall's picks. i think this team competing for a cup is going to depend if fletcher's picks are major hits. Edited November 5, 2021 by tucson83 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, tucson83 said: hate to say it but you are not going to win cup if you dont hit on players aka hextall's picks. i think this team competing for a cup is going to depend if fletcher's picks are major hits. Sadly, there is truth to what you say. We need some dynamic scorers, not more muckers. I graduated high school in 1975, right around the time of the Memorial Auditorium Fog Final. I wonder about living to see another Cup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Howie58 said: Sadly, there is truth to what you say. We need some dynamic scorers, not more muckers. I graduated high school in 1975, right around the time of the Memorial Auditorium Fog Final. I wonder about living to see another Cup. i hear ya, i want to win a cup as badly as anyone on here but we just dont have the depth to compete for one. i think the players that fletch wanted probably didnt want to come here which is why you got to have a good farm system so you dont have to rely on outside help. fletch had to rely on scrap players on our depth lines because his picks arent ready yet. i cant blame fletch for this at all, he's been dealt with a very bad hand in this. like i said if hextall hit on players especially on d and not have to go out and get ellis and risto, i think it would make fletchers job so much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Howie58 said: These were two decimated teams playing each other. I'm not sure that the Flyers missing Hayes and Ellis is quite apples to apples with the Pens missing Crosby, Malkin, Rust, and half their starting defense. What got me - and Meltzer apparently - was the Pens compete level was better than the Flyers from the jump and for much of the game (with a few exceptions). 35 minutes ago, tucson83 said: hate to say it but you are not going to win cup if you dont hit on players aka hextall's picks. No less than seven of Hextall's picks were in the lineup last night: Sanheim, NAK, Lindblom, Provorov, Konecny, Hart, Farabee That's not a bad production, especially given where the Flyers were picking. In 2014 there isn't a defenceman taken after Sanheim that has been "better". Not many other players - and 23 other teams also passed on Pastrnak. In 2015 they had Provorov and Konecny and didn't have a 2nd rounder because... Andrew MacDonald. Thanks, Homer. In 2016, there isn't a player until DeBrincat in the 2nd that would have made an impact instead of Rubustov. And every team passed on him at least once. In 2017, certainly Patrick is an issue, but every other team would have made that pick at #2. And they did get Ellis for him. Frost has struggled with injury for two of his first three professional years and the jury, quite frankly, is still out. In 2018, they got Farabee and there's no one past O'Brien that anyone can point to. Three players in the first taken after him haven't played an NHL game, either. Four have played less than 10 games and another less than 20. The guy with the most games is K'Andre Miller with just over 60. Only nine 2nd rounders have played in the NHL at this point. Seven guys drafted playing in your starting lineup including two productive scoring wingers, a top pair defenceman and your starting goalie isn't a bad haul for five years. The problem this team had wasn't with "drafting" as much as it was perennially believing that the team was "definitely a playoff team" when it was pretty clear to anyone outside of the Philadelphia fanbase that it just wasn't. That's what got them the return of ol' #25 and the $7M he's taking up on the third line today. Edited November 5, 2021 by radoran 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 I think we're starting to see what many here were predicting once Hayes went down. A lot of guys playing further up the lineup than we'd prefer. Many of the issues have been discussed- at length so I'll skip all that. Ellis not being available has not been great. I hope whatever is going on isn't chronic. Hard to see the team get outworked, the Flyers effort wasn't lackadaisical the Pens was just better. I also think their middling lineup fed off of the Jarry saves in the 2nd part of the 1st period. Had one or two of the good chances beaten him, I think the game's momentum and complexion change in favor of the Flyers. Getting 1 point instead of 0 was the best worst outcome. 2 would have been preferable. Last night was a missed opportunity for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, radoran said: No less than seven of Hextall's picks were in the lineup last night: Sanheim, NAK, Lindblom, Provorov, Konecny, Hart, Farabee That's not a bad production, especially given where the Flyers were picking. I agree with this, but the earlier comment about having to get more out of picks remains important imo. It's worth noting that both can be true. It's very possible Hexy did pick really quite well given where he was picking. At the same time, it's entirely possible those picks are still not enough. They may be the best we had available (give or take), but that doesn't mean they're good enough to make a team into a contender. I've said this before, but this team is sorely lacking in real top flight talent. Giroux has had phenomenal seasons, and is definitely the closest to great we've had in many many years, but he's getting older and frankly has always been inconsistent even there. This team is built on a considerable number of moderate to high potential players. Even if we say something like most of our team is pretty good, I don't think that's enough to contend. Contending teams in this league -- minus a very very short list -- don't just rely on pretty good players. They have gamebreaking talent on their rosters, and that talent is what takes them from "probably a playoff team" to "a possible cup contender". I want to speak of the Flyers as cup contenders again. I'm tired of the "well they should make the playoffs I think" way of talking about my team. For that, I think we need players to feel truly excited about in more than just "well Farabee looks like he could be a solid top six guy" or "TK is remembering how to play hockey again". The Burgh team we faced last night had really quite a lot of pretty good players. They didn't have their gamebreaking talents though. The Pens have been considered contenders every single year for over a decade not because of Guentzel and Carter and Zucker... We have Guentzels, Carters, and Zuckers too. What we need is better than that. Edited November 5, 2021 by elmatus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, elmatus said: They may be the best we had available (give or take), but that doesn't mean they're good enough to make a team into a contender. Oh, I completely agree with that. My point is only that the idea that "Hextall's picks didn't work" isn't telling the story. His picks have worked, but have they been good enough? Well, picking in the mid to late first round doesn't often get you game changers. Like it or not - and I'm critical - "make the playoffs and anything can happen" is the guiding principle of the Senior Hockey Advisors who have been with this organization* for ~30 years now. It almost worked once. 5 minutes ago, elmatus said: Contending teams in this league -- minus a very very short list -- don't just rely on pretty good players. They have gamebreaking talent on their rosters, and that talent is what takes them from "probably a playoff team" to "a possible cup contender". True that. That said, the Leafs (for example) have 2-3 gamebreakers on their squad and haven't been out of the first round. My evaluation of the team for the past decade+ has been "are they good enough to compete with the other teams in their division, conference, and league?" and the answer has quite frankly been that they come up short. 8 minutes ago, elmatus said: Giroux has had phenomenal seasons, and is definitely the closest to great we've had in many many years, but he's getting older and frankly has always been inconsistent even there. Giroux, to me, is as if the Bruins saw that they hit paydirt with Pastrnak and decided to build around him. Pasta is a good-to-great player, but without Marchand and Bergeron (and Rask) he's not the centerpiece of an organization. Again the Senior Hockey Advisors took a playmaking wing they didn't even interview late in the first round who had never been captain, and decided to make him captain and the #1C foundation of the franchise. It could still work. And I think they have a better shot today than they did in the past several years at least. But they're not a slam dunk and they're not an obvious "contender." Happy - as ever - to be wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 2 hours ago, radoran said: It could still work. nah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucson83 Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 3 hours ago, elmatus said: I agree with this, but the earlier comment about having to get more out of picks remains important imo. It's worth noting that both can be true. It's very possible Hexy did pick really quite well given where he was picking. At the same time, it's entirely possible those picks are still not enough. They may be the best we had available (give or take), but that doesn't mean they're good enough to make a team into a contender. I've said this before, but this team is sorely lacking in real top flight talent. Giroux has had phenomenal seasons, and is definitely the closest to great we've had in many many years, but he's getting older and frankly has always been inconsistent even there. This team is built on a considerable number of moderate to high potential players. Even if we say something like most of our team is pretty good, I don't think that's enough to contend. Contending teams in this league -- minus a very very short list -- don't just rely on pretty good players. They have gamebreaking talent on their rosters, and that talent is what takes them from "probably a playoff team" to "a possible cup contender". I want to speak of the Flyers as cup contenders again. I'm tired of the "well they should make the playoffs I think" way of talking about my team. For that, I think we need players to feel truly excited about in more than just "well Farabee looks like he could be a solid top six guy" or "TK is remembering how to play hockey again". The Burgh team we faced last night had really quite a lot of pretty good players. They didn't have their gamebreaking talents though. The Pens have been considered contenders every single year for over a decade not because of Guentzel and Carter and Zucker... We have Guentzels, Carters, and Zuckers too. What we need is better than that. what frustrates me is that we get rid of every coach and they go elsewhere and they are successful like i dont understand how that says that coaches are bad and the players arent? to be honest with you, if av goes to vegas or tampa for example, where there's talent he will be successful. i dont think it matters who comes here, it would be the same issues because of the talent level on this roster. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 59 minutes ago, tucson83 said: what frustrates me is that we get rid of every coach and they go elsewhere and they are successful Since Hitchcock, the only really "successful" coach who left was Berube, who inherited a team that had been to a Conference Final a couple years prior. Laviolette was a Cup winner before he got here and has one Finals appearance alongside five first and two second round playoff exits. Hakstol is muddling about in Seattle. Stevens never really did much of anything after he left. That takes us back to Hitchcock, who won all of three playoff rounds after he left. Barber never coached again. And that's the past 21 years. In other news, I'm old... 1 hour ago, tucson83 said: i dont think it matters who comes here, it would be the same issues because of the talent level on this roster. I don't really disagree, but they just did a pretty heavy roster overhaul and it might be fair to give them the chance to fail on their own. I've been an increasingly harsh critic for the past 10 years and I'm giving them that leeway for the time being. YMMV, which is fair. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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