Giroux Trade Talk

[flyer4ever]

12 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

The key words are "worth looking into" and I can't think of anybody. 

Chara's probably finally going to retire and he's pretty much done anyway. Bergeron will be a free agent but I'd guess he doesn't leave Boston, possibly retires. Bruins would probably be willing to unload Nick Foligno but he's also well past it. Pavelski and Giordano are both pretty old. Doubt Getzlaf leaves Anaheim. Also old. All captain types, all character guys, but all old.

 

So maybe just sign Ryan Reaves, name him captain, have fight nights every night to entertain the fans while we tank for Bedard

 

This I support. I don't care who the captain is next year or the year after that. If and that's a huge if this rebuild is done right, the captain is an issue 3 or 4 years from now.

 

[flyercanuck]

3 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

This I support. I don't care who the captain is next year or the year after that. If and that's a huge if this rebuild is done right, the captain is an issue 3 or 4 years from now.

 

 

Heck, make Gritty captain. Or the state of Minnesota. 

[OccamsRazor]

Well Frank has him listed as the top guy being sought.

 

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/seravalli-vancouver-canucks-brock-boeser-joins-trade-targets--board/

 

1. Claude Giroux
Center / Wing, Philadelphia Flyers
Age: 34
Contract: Pending UFA, $8.275 million AAV
Last Rank: NR
 

Scoop: Giroux holds the cards with a full no-move clause, but all involved seem resigned to the fact that his impressive tenure in Philadelphia is nearing a conclusion. The Flyers are working with Giroux’s representation, Pat Brisson of CAA Sports, to help find a spot to chase Lord Stanley this season. Given his versatility at either the center or wing position, clockwork-like production and intangibles and there is a reason why Giroux is the new No. 1 on the Trade Target board: He is the best player available at the deadline who is almost assuredly going to be on the move.

[Cheesesteak]

6 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

For God's sake ,where in the hell is beaks!

last seen with his significant other haha

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Well Frank has him listed as the top guy being sought.

 

 

He is without a doubt the most sought after guy. Only on a pissed off Flyers forum is this not a very obvious thing. Giroux may not have led this team to a cup in his time here, but he's running on an awful long list of other accolades. He would be a huge boon to any team that lands him. Put another way, no other player available at this deadline offers the skill level he does to a team right now. 

 

Now, that doesn't mean he'll command a massive return of course. Being the most skilled and impactful player available isn't the only variable there. He controls his fate for one thing, and can essentially just refuse to go somewhere if he doesn't think it's worth his time in some way. Also, he's a rental, which also impacts the return.

 

In short, his value on the ice is indisputable; his value as a trade chip at this moment is complicated. 

 

I still think he ends up in Colorado.

[radoran]

6 hours ago, elmatus said:

He is without a doubt the most sought after guy. Only on a pissed off Flyers forum is this not a very obvious thing. 

 

Not true. There are places that have him top 3 or top 5 in some cases because of his NMC.

 

He is no doubt a sought after piece, but the potential suitors are limited and his choice of partners make a more limited Venn diagram.

 

6 hours ago, elmatus said:

. Giroux may not have led this team to a cup in his time here, but he's running on an awful long list of other accolades

 

With respect, what "other accolades" does he have?

 

He's a good/very good hockey player. He's been to seven All Star games. He was MVP of a glorified pond hockey tournament.

 

That's it.

[elmatus]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:12 PM, radoran said:

With respect, what "other accolades" does he have?

 

 

Well for starters he's the fourth highest scorer in the league over the last decade. His best comparable in terms of production is John Tavares, who is no slouch either, and who entered the league as a franchise marquee name, 1st overall pick. His record includes a season over 100pts, which is no small feat in today's NHL. It's also worth noting for many seasons he was exceptional on the powerplay. In fact, he has more PPP than any other player in the league over his career.

 

If playing on the wing (which he can play both very well), he also doubles as a phenomenal face off guy with a 56% FO win rate throughout his career. Despite moderate team playoff success, Giroux individually is a great playoff performer (just a bit under 1ppg). 

 

He's been a captain now for years. That may not mean much here, where the only benchmark of note is winning the cup, but that sort of thing always means something for teams looking to bolster for a deep run. On this team, he's been named the MVP five times -- more than anyone else.

 

He also happens to be a very low injury risk who misses very few games. In fact, given he can plug literally anywhere in the top six of essentially any team in the league, he's amazing as injury protection for a playoff run. Winger goes down, Giroux can slip into his spot. Centre? Yep, he can do that too. Got a weak link on PP1? Here you go.

 

To top all of that off, he's managed to do those things with his primary wingman being one Jakub Voracek. Imagine what a determined G could do as part of a team that actually has proper elite snipers.

 

Honestly, G has never held this team back, but I'm pretty confident the team has held him.

Edited February 20, 2022 by elmatus

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Well for starters he's the fourth highest scorer in the league over the last decade.

 

24th in ppg.

 

And Tavares hasn't done much of anything, either.

 

9 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I'm pretty confident the team has held him.

 

Which I have never disagreed with and have stated clearly many times.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, elmatus said:

He's been a captain now for years. That may not mean much here, where the only benchmark of note is winning the cup

 

I won't speak for anyone else sure a Cup is the ultimate goal but for now hey just get to the conference finals, show me you're one of the two best teams in the East.

 

You that is will certainly show me hey they are making progress.

 

But no that hasn't been the case they did get out the first round when they made the playoffs so yeah they can say that but the Isles embarrassed them I think.

 

And they haven't been the same confident team since then and I don't even know what it will take anymore to get them back on that right path....maybe a change of Captaincy will help it is the only thing they haven't tried.

 

Leave no stone unturned is what I say...

 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

I won't speak for anyone else sure a Cup is the ultimate goal but for now hey just get to the conference finals, show me you're one of the two best teams in the East.

 

OR, this would be plenty for me, yes.

 

But honestly, I'm just hoping for a world where a Flyers game--ANY Flyers game--matters a damn.  It's now two full seasons and something like 21 calendar months since any Flyers game has held any import.  On any level.

 

And it doesn't just have to be important or have value to me.  It's been that long since a game had any apparent import to the players themselves.

 

So at this point, I'm happy with competitive and looking forward to a day we have a front office and a team of players with the slightest bit of self-respect and desire and effort to put together any kind of value and quality.

 

Until them, honestly, Fk them.  The whole damn bunch.  They're entirely irrelevant.  As irrelevant to me as they are to the 11,000 empty seats at each home game.  They're frankly a pathetic waste of time, effort, and thought.

Edited February 20, 2022 by ruxpin

[radoran]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I won't speak for anyone else sure a Cup is the ultimate goal but for now hey just get to the conference finals, show me you're one of the two best teams in the East.

 

My benchmark for success isn't "Cup or nothing."

 

But it is higher than four playoff appearances and one playoff round win in 10 years that ended in an embarrassment 4-0 blowout that wasn't even that competitive.

 

The whole "well you only want a Cup" argument is generally made as a last resort to cover up 10 years of mediocrity.

 

I think I've been pretty clear in why I'm not going to miss Claude. ( For one thing I don't think I'm going to have to...)

 

I'd like to see someone write his Hall of Fame plaque...

 

One 100 point season. Led the league in a statistical category once (assists). Third in points twice. 2nd once. One 30+ goal season. No major individual league awards.  Seven All Star games in 14 years. John Scott MVP Award at pond hockey.

 

4 goals and 18 points in his 35 playoff games as captain. Led the team to one 2nd and two 3rd place finishes in the division in 10 years.

 

He doesn't reliably crack Team Canada's top 12 forwards when everyone is a available.

 

Heck, he was only named best player team MVP on a bad Flyer team five times.

 

This isn't "hating" on the player. This is his actual record.

 

He's been badly served by the organization*. But I don't think this record if it was a captain of any other team would blow anyone's socks off. The fan base has a lot of investment in him as one of the few bright spots in 10 years.

 

I wish him well in his future endeavors and pretty much expect him to be back in Philly next year.

Edited February 20, 2022 by radoran

[ruxpin]

16 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My benchmark for success isn't "Cup or nothing."

 

But it is higher than four playoff appearances and one playoff round win in 10 years that ended in an embarrassment 4-0 blowout that wasn't even that competitive.

 

The whole "well you only want a Cup" argument is generally made as a last resort to cover up 10 years of mediocrity.

 

I think I've been pretty clear in why I'm not going to miss Claude. ( For one thing I don't think I'm going to have to...)

 

I'd like to see someone write his Hall of Fame plaque...

 

One 100 point season. Led the league in a statistical category once (assists). Third in points twice. 2nd once. One 30+ goal season. No major individual league awards.  Seven All Star games in 14 years. John Scott MVP Award at pond hockey.

 

4 goals and 18 points in his 35 playoff games as captain. Led the team to one 2nd and two 3rd place finishes in the division in 10 years.

 

He doesn't reliably crack Team Canada's top 12 forwards when everyone is a available.

 

Heck, he was only named best player on a bad Flyer team five times.

 

This isn't "hating" on the player. This is his actual record.

 

He's been badly served by the organization*. But I don't think this record if it was a captain of any other team would blow anyone's socks off. The fan base has a lot of investment in him as one of the few bright spots in 10 years.

 

I wish him well in his future endeavors and pretty much expect him to be back in Philly next year.

 

#Reality

[flyercanuck]

23 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

My benchmark for success isn't "Cup or nothing."

 

But it is higher than four playoff appearances and one playoff round win in 10 years that ended in an embarrassment 4-0 blowout that wasn't even that competitive.

 

The whole "well you only want a Cup" argument is generally made as a last resort to cover up 10 years of mediocrity.

 

I think I've been pretty clear in why I'm not going to miss Claude. ( For one thing I don't think I'm going to have to...)

 

I'd like to see someone write his Hall of Fame plaque...

 

One 100 point season. Led the league in a statistical category once (assists). Third in points twice. 2nd once. One 30+ goal season. No major individual league awards.  Seven All Star games in 14 years. John Scott MVP Award at pond hockey.

 

4 goals and 18 points in his 35 playoff games as captain. Led the team to one 2nd and two 3rd place finishes in the division in 10 years.

 

He doesn't reliably crack Team Canada's top 12 forwards when everyone is a available.

 

Heck, he was only named best player on a bad Flyer team five times.

 

This isn't "hating" on the player. This is his actual record.

 

He's been badly served by the organization*. But I don't think this record if it was a captain of any other team would blow anyone's socks off. The fan base has a lot of investment in him as one of the few bright spots in 10 years.

 

I wish him well in his future endeavors and pretty much expect him to be back in Philly next year.

 

 Again, this is more of a black mark on Flyer management than it is on Giroux. The guy was picked 22nd overall and became a pretty damn good player. I'm not happy that Giroux didn't lead the Flyers to a cup, but I blame the Flyers for never drafting a better player than him since, what...1991 when they drafted, and traded Forsberg? 

[radoran]

5 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 Again, this is more of a black mark on Flyer management than it is on Giroux. The guy was picked 22nd overall and became a pretty damn good player. I'm not happy that Giroux didn't lead the Flyers to a cup, but I blame the Flyers for never drafting a better player than him since, what...1991 when they drafted, and traded Forsberg? 

 

I think I'm pretty clear about my abject disdain for management.

 

Of course, they're the guys that put him in the position he's in... And, again, they only picked him as team MVP five times...

 

Again, not about "hating" the player. It's about his *actual* record.

Edited February 20, 2022 by radoran

[CoachX]

So let's say Giroux gets traded, wins a cup, then returns to Philly. Would that be a good thing? What happens then? Do the Flyers put the C back on his chest and roll him out as a hero?

 

Whatever success he has somewhere else, will not carry over if he comes back, because the team will still suck. I would think it will be even worse for him, because if he plays good, he will be expected to produce here, more than he does now. If he doesn't, it may be accepted it's the team, but it's more than likely going to generate more hateful criticism. Philly fans expect players to perform at a level equal to their pay or ability. When they don't, it's brutal

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Do the Flyers put the C back on his chest and roll him out as a hero?

 

Yes. This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.

 

In related news, the Detroit Lions are considering raising a banner next year because their old QB won a Super Bowl with another team...

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Yes. This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.

 

In related news, the Detroit Lions are considering raising a banner next year because their old QB won a Super Bowl with another team...

OMG, we are the Detroit Lions of hockey? It's worse than I thought

 

Unfortunately there are no bridges in New Mexico 

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, CoachX said:

So let's say Giroux gets traded, wins a cup, then returns to Philly. Would that be a good thing? What happens then? Do the Flyers put the C back on his chest and roll him out as a hero?

 

Whatever success he has somewhere else, will not carry over if he comes back, because the team will still suck. I would think it will be even worse for him, because if he plays good, he will be expected to produce here, more than he does now. If he doesn't, it may be accepted it's the team, but it's more than likely going to generate more hateful criticism. Philly fans expect players to perform at a level equal to their pay or ability. When they don't, it's brutal

 

I think they just add another A till the end of the season and hold out hope since they never gave the C out that it will give them hope he will come back.

 

And I'm afraid if it happens it will be more of the same.

 

It is why once they start to close the door they should all the way and leave it shut.

 

It is time to move on just like with Jake and if they bring him back well that tells me they just want to compete for the 9th seed again.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

OMG, we are the Detroit Lions of hockey? It's worse than I thought

 

Unfortunately there are no bridges in New Mexico 

 

Well they have three playoff appearances in the past 11 years. But they were also 2nd in their division four times...

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, CoachX said:

OMG, we are the Detroit Lions of hockey? It's worse than I thought

 

Uh not that bad yet.

 

They have like 1 playoff win in like 50 years.

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Uh not that bad yet.

 

They have like 1 playoff win in like 50 years.

 

Yeah but they did win Playoff Bowl games(?) in 1960, 1961, and 1962 which was seen as a good sign.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

8 minutes ago, CoachX said:

OMG, we are the Detroit Lions of hockey? It's worse than I thought

 

Unfortunately there are no bridges in New Mexico 

More like the Jacksonville Jaguars.....

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

 

My benchmark for success isn't "Cup or nothing."

 

But it is higher than four playoff appearances and one playoff round win in 10 years that ended in an embarrassment 4-0 blowout that wasn't even that competitive.

 

The whole "well you only want a Cup" argument is generally made as a last resort to cover up 10 years of mediocrity.

 

I think I've been pretty clear in why I'm not going to miss Claude. ( For one thing I don't think I'm going to have to...)

 

I'd like to see someone write his Hall of Fame plaque...

 

One 100 point season. Led the league in a statistical category once (assists). Third in points twice. 2nd once. One 30+ goal season. No major individual league awards.  Seven All Star games in 14 years. John Scott MVP Award at pond hockey.

 

4 goals and 18 points in his 35 playoff games as captain. Led the team to one 2nd and two 3rd place finishes in the division in 10 years.

 

He doesn't reliably crack Team Canada's top 12 forwards when everyone is a available.

 

Heck, he was only named best player team MVP on a bad Flyer team five times.

 

This isn't "hating" on the player. This is his actual record.

 

He's been badly served by the organization*. But I don't think this record if it was a captain of any other team would blow anyone's socks off. The fan base has a lot of investment in him as one of the few bright spots in 10 years.

 

I wish him well in his future endeavors and pretty much expect him to be back in Philly next year.

#truth

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Yeah but they did win Playoff Bowl games(?) in 1960, 1961, and 1962 which was seen as a good sign.

 

 

Yet pretty bad they had two of the best players ever at their positions arguably in Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson and they said they would rather retire than play another game for that franchise.

 

Well Flyers seem to be heading down that path full steam and if it don't change soon we'll maybe no good players will want to come to Philly my how that has changed...

[radoran]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

maybe no good players will want to come to Philly my how that has changed...

 

Who's the last one that did (who had a say in the matter)?