A Speculative 2022 Flyers Off Season Rebuild

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

 Fletcher isn't trading Hayes and Risto...he actually thinks they're good. That's why the team stinks, cause he thinks THAT is good.

 

 

 I'm pretty sure Tortsie will have us back to mediocre picks. This franchise just doesn't have a clue. 

thats the spirit! push that doom and gloom

[elmatus]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Yeah no need to do an aggressive retool now.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Fletch has been clear on the aggressive retool from the start. I highly doubt he's just going to sit on his hands. There's no way he's just going to ice the same failed roster again next season. 

 

Not to mention I'm sure Torts will be pushing to bring in some players he happens to like, whether from his time in Columbus or just in general. I'd be curious to know which players he has in mind actually. Nick Foligno (might be too old)? Boone Jenner (entirely possible)? Seth Jones (if CLS would choose to move him)?

[CoachX]

42 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I could see JVR being moved, but it will be for peanuts

he isnt worth peanuts, maybe those crappy red candy bean things...but not peanuts

 

44 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Laughton is an interesting player in a way. If there was a fourth point up there, he'd probably be in it (along with maybe Brink). I'm actually very curious about him. On the one hand, he's the kind of guy contenders wanting depth might ask for to bolster their bottom six and give them options, on the other hand, Laughton seems like exactly the kind of player Torts likes having on his teams. The big question mark would be whether the return would be worth it given Laughton's age, and whether Torts takes an immediate liking to him, which I wouldn't be surprised to see happen.

This would puts Torts clearly in my hate file

[CoachX]

41 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I'm good with just running it back with the exception of Yandle, Thompson and Jones.

 

And I would prefer to jettison JVR ia possible.

 

That would be progress in my book.

 

Other than that I am good running it back with a guy like Sandstrom/Ersson/Fedotov in Jones backup spot behind Hart.

i can get behind this!

[CoachX]

5 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I highly doubt he's just going to sit on his hands

if he does, he'd have no problem picking his nose

 

[elmatus]

Just now, CoachX said:

he isnt worth peanuts, maybe those crappy red candy bean things...but not peanuts

 

This would puts Torts clearly in my hate file

 

Haha, well obviously I don't know that for sure. I've never met the guy. I'm just basing on previous favs of his. Laughton's a responsible guy, who by all accounts takes his job very seriously and professionally, and who is willing to basically do whatever a coach asks of him. He doesn't try to be fancy or do things he can't really pull off, and he gives everything he's got whenever he's on the ice. Those kind of players seem to be Torts players as far as I can tell.

[CoachX]

1 minute ago, elmatus said:

Laughton's a responsible guy, who by all accounts takes his job very seriously and professionally, and who is willing to basically do whatever a coach asks of him

lets hope Torts asks him to fetch some popcorn and empty the wastebaskets

[OccamsRazor]

14 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Fletch has been clear on the aggressive retool from the start.

 

Yeah I get what you mean but as we speak it is only words nothing more.

 

Till he does something I don't even buy it with the situation I look at he is screwed by the limited cap space he has due to the contracts he has handed out.

 

So just run it back - screw the aggressive rebuild hog wash.

 

He doesn't have cap space to really do anything.

[elmatus]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

lets hope Torts asks him to fetch some popcorn and empty the wastebaskets

 

I'm guessing your hate for Laughton is owing to the fact he didn't live up the manufactured hype. I can get that, but really very few players drafted in the 1st round ever do live up to the hype. He's been a soldier on this team for years now and has been asked to fill all sorts of roles all over the ice in that time. He doesn't and never will have the raw talent of a true top six guy, but I don't think it's fair to call him a bust by any measure.

 

More importantly, Torts is the kind of coach who prioritizes players who play responsibly (Laughton does), who don't try to do risky things (again Laughton), and who are able to plug into hard roles on a whim (Laughton's done that his whole career). Laughton sounds an awful lot like a Torts player to me.

 

That's not me saying Laughton is going to somehow make this team into something it's not... coaches can't teach talent. We know what Laughton is, and it isn't a 30+ goal scorer -- something we desperately need right now. My point is Laughton plays the game the way Torts tends to want his players to play the game. I wouldn't be shocked to see Laughton get more minutes under Torts than what he did under someone like AV for instance.

[elmatus]

5 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

He doesn't have cap space to really do anything.

 

Sure he does. He could absolutely move the guys I mentioned in my post: Couts, Provo, TK, Farabee, Sanheim. Those are all very moveable guys that many teams would love to have.

 

I'm not saying Fletch would get great returns for those guys btw. I have zero faith in Fletch's ability to get good trades. I'm just saying that if he's serious about the aggressive retool stuff, those are the guys most likely to be moved. I could also see him moving 1st round picks, as many teams will see Flyers 1sts as very high picks for the foreseeable future, which gives up significant value.

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, elmatus said:

Couts, Provo, TK, Farabee, Sanheim. Those are all very moveable guys that many teams would love to have.

 

Nope don't want to move those guys.

 

The only one I'd consider at this point is TK and maybe Coots for the right price.

[CoachX]

I think the last thing that should happen is gut the core of the team for the sake of change. 

 

Thompson, Hayes, JVR, TK(?), Laughton....sure

 

Move guys who aren't part of the direction the team is heading, may free up needed space, and have trade value (no one is taking our junk for nothing)

 

I'm really curious to see if this #5 pick is packaged to bring in a significant player. Maybe you can put the 5 with JVR to free up the space you need

[CoachX]

53 minutes ago, elmatus said:

I'm guessing your hate for Laughton is owing to the fact he didn't live up the manufactured hype

Pretty much. I see a player who, in situations, could have stepped up a little more than he has. I've watched games where his name is barely mentioned, and he is practically invisible. I'm not referring to scoring more goals than his ability allows. I'm talking about doing something, ANYTHING, to make an impact. 

 

I've been in this discussion many times. I will hear about how he fills holes in the roster, does all the things gets asked,  blah...blah...blah. I'm still flabbergasted that people on this forum think he should be the next captain. Talk about accepting mediocrity and the statue quo!

 

He's another Michael Raffl. The team seems to be overloaded with this kind of player, and he's loved for it

 

SMGDH 

[elmatus]

Just now, CoachX said:

Pretty much. I see a player who, in situations, could have stepped up a little more than he has. I've watched games where his name is barely mentioned, and he is practically invisible. I'm not referring to scoring more goals than his ability allows. I'm talking about doing something, ANYTHING, to make an impact. 

 

I've been in this discussion many times. I will hear about how he fills holes in the roster, does all the things gets asked,  blah...blah...blah. I'm still flabbergasted that people on this forum think he should be the next captain. Talk about accepting mediocrity and the statue quo!

 

He's another Michael Raffl. The team seems to be overloaded with this kind of player, and he's loved for it

 

SMGDH 

i really think folks need to start considering the more rational reason for this. If Laughton can’t seem to have a major impact on the ice, it’s not because of lack of effort. He just doesn’t have that level of skill. When he’s getting outplayed, it’s because the other side is better, not because he’s not trying. The same is true of many on this team.
 

Effort is highly unlikely to be the sum reason this roster is mediocre at best. It’s mediocre at best because the skill level of the players involved is mediocre at best. Sure, some players may slack at times, but to say they all do, or to even say the majority have been doing so this whole time, doesn’t make sense to me. 
 

On the whole, these are professional athletes who are highly competitive. The ones who don’t try hard are the exception not the rule. 
 

In this league, not trying hard enough is most often used as an excuse for failing execs to try and gloss over the hard problem of other teams just being better. 

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yeah no need to do an aggressive retool now.

 

Shed a few more crap contract while getting the kids some playing time and developing the talent at the same time. 

 

While trying to get the whole team playing well.

 

 

It may take more than next year and they could also stay in the Bedard sweps as well.

 

I agree with you 100%. It's time to rebuild this mess. 

 

The problem is, the idiots that be are going to do another aggressive retool....cause last years worked out so well. 

 

Sadly, I think Fonzie takes us out of the Bedard sweepstakes. Too good to get a franchise player, too lousy to win a playoff round. Unless there's a flat out mutiny. 

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

Sure he does. He could absolutely move the guys I mentioned in my post: Couts, Provo, TK, Farabee, Sanheim. Those are all very moveable guys that many teams would love to have.

 

I'm not saying Fletch would get great returns for those guys btw. I have zero faith in Fletch's ability to get good trades. I'm just saying that if he's serious about the aggressive retool stuff, those are the guys most likely to be moved. I could also see him moving 1st round picks, as many teams will see Flyers 1sts as very high picks for the foreseeable future, which gives up significant value.

 

Just because he's done this exact thing for...12 years now, and it's never worked out for him before, doesn't mean this time it won't.

 

And yes, I'm joking. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by flyercanuck

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I agree with you 100%. It's time to rebuild this mess. 

 

The problem is, the idiots that be are going to do another aggressive retool....cause last years worked out so well. 

 

Sadly, I think Fonzie takes us out of the Bedard sweepstakes. Too good to get a franchise player, too lousy to win a playoff round. Unless there's a flat out mutiny. 

With the Tortorella hiring, Schmuck is officially on the hot seat. He knows he has Briere breathing down his neck and rather than stand up to ownership and the senior advisors to tell them that this team is nowhere near ready to compete, he's sold them that they strewn be far from contention. As soon as Tortorella said that this team wasn't ready to compete, he basically throat punched Fletcher and everyone above him.

 

In a round about kind of way, Tortorella might just be THE person to kick start a legitimate rebuild simply because he's honest to a fault and he calls it like he sees it. This upcoming year is going to be very interesting. My hope is that whoever the assistants are, they can get Hart back on track, they get Provorov's head and game straightened out, Sanheim continues to move towards being a complete two-way defender and Konecny becomes the 35 to 40 goal scorer he can be. 

[OccamsRazor]

46 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

What matters are results and what happens on the ice.

 

All I care about right now.

 

Fug everything else.

 

Let see what the geniuses have been scheming up.

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Wow.  No he didn't.  He said what the script told him to say.  And, to believe he was being original, and not just spewing the talking points he was told to spew only shows some serious false hope.  He didn't punch anyone in the throat.  He said what the propaganda department told him to say in order to appease fans like yourself, hoping to sell some of them some tickets from their fascination of this new shiny toy.

 

As I've said, the only possible, positive outcome of this ridiculous hire is if it somehow gets this front office swept clean.  It's not enough to just have Fletcher, Hanrahan and Flahr completely removed.  The sweep must also include Holmgren and Lombardi.  Anything less, and the same mediocrity will only continue to exist and incompetently affect this organization.  This won't happen because some believe Tortorella is "honest to a fault and calls it like he sees it".  It will happen because he's no longer an NHL head coach(that he barely was even in his day), isn't capable of accomplishing these things the propaganda department have told him to talk about in his press conference, will lose this locker room quickly, implode like he's always done in his career, and throw his normal, childish temper tantrums when this Philly media group confronts his ineptness.  You think he was bad with the Columbus media?  HA!  They are nothing in comparison to the idiots that exist in this city's media group.  And, there's no chance that Tortorella has changed and "learned from his mistakes in the past", as many of the gullible believe because he said so in a press conference.  Simply ridiculous.

 

It's highly doubtful that Tortorella is a coach that is going to bring a goaltending coach with him.  So, unfortunately, that specific assistant will still be the mediocrity that is Kim Dillabaugh.  Hart will, unfortunately, not get the teaching he badly needs and deserves, his confidence will remain stuck in the mediocrity that is Dillabaugh, and now, it will also do the same to Sandstrom/Fedotov.  Tortorella might get Provy's consistency to where it needs to be.  But, ONLY if Provy is willing to do the work needed to show the skills he's shown to have MUCH more often than he has shown in the past.  He might improve Sanheim's defensive game.  But, he will only stifle his offensive growth and production while doing so.  Not make Sanheim the more complete player that a competent coaching staff would make him.  And, on a team that BADLY needs as much offensive production as they can get, this will hurt this team in the long run.  And, I guess you've never watched Tortorella's teams play hockey in the past.  Because there's very little to suggest that a player like Konecny's production will dramatically increase, if at all.  His defensive game might improve a bit.  But, again, ONLY if he's willing to do the work for that improvement.  If he's unwilling to backcheck like he usually is, he will only find himself in Tortorella's dog house, getting demoted down the lineup, reducing his ice time(decreasing his production even more), and possibly suspending him(dropping that production even more).

 

Hope is great to have.  But, false hope doesn't get anything accomplished.  Reality is what it is.  If you want to believe in fairies and mermaids, so be it.  But, it doesn't matter what is said in press conferences.  What matters are results and what happens on the ice.  And, as much as many of you want to ignore the clear facts of the past, they are facts that can't be ignored, and more often than not, they repeat themselves.

Lol, I thought I was negative.  This is the Rorschach’s Journal of negative Flyers posts.  Well done.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

It's now officially time to be afraid. You know Schmuck is working the phones as I'm writing this. Nothing good can come from this. 

[OccamsRazor]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:53 PM, CoachX said:

Move guys who aren't part of the direction the team is heading, may free up needed space, and have trade value (no one is taking our junk for nothing)

 

 

I found this interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

Please discuss...

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

 

I see the argument and understand the math.

 

The sample size is small, so the % can make a dramatic "corrective" swing if the team is a 90ish point team this year.

The team he took over wasn't exactly a juggernaut and he was hired mid-disastrous season.

A good season and He's back to around .500.

 

That reads like I'm making excuses.

I'm not, just pointing out a few things that are also true.

 

FTR I don't think the Flyers are a 90 point team this season, I'd love to be wrong but I'm not feeling bullish on their prospects in the short term. I also don't see Fletcher as the prototypical modern NHL executive. I know he's made some back office improvements, but nothing about his time here has compared favorably with Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic, Bill Zito, Yarmo Kekolainen or Julien Brisbois.

 

[SCFlyguy]

ESPN ranking for next season has the Flyers 28th out of 32 teams and Vegas has them with the third worst odds to win the Cup.  I wish they weren't so needlessly negative.

[CoachX]

Both entities are qualified to be Flyer fans on this forum

[RonJeremy]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:35 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nope don't want to move those guys.

 

The only one I'd consider at this point is TK and maybe Coots for the right price.

Shmuck has to figure out if Sanheim wants to stay, he is an UFA after this year. With York being an offensive style dman and a lefty, I could see them trading Sanheim to shore up another area. If Ellis is not coming back, then that may change things. Then I don’t see how you can trade a defenseman, but if Sanheim wants to become an UFA , then you gotta move him.