Free Agency

[CoachX]

22 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

Seriously, what is life like in Philly? Is it a place a 27 year old millionaire wants to settle and raise a family?

You may be off the mark here. The flyers have a history of giving former players long lasting careers with the organization. Danny Briere is the most current example if this. JG, being a hometown guy, could have an impact playing career and end up being club president. And Cherry Hill, as one example, is a pretty nice area to live

[radoran]

58 minutes ago, CoachX said:

gives you something to tune in for

 

I presume you're going with Gaudreau here, but suppose it is Forsberg?

 

Honestly, if this team was a scoring winger away from

 

59 minutes ago, CoachX said:

a turn around and a team that has a chance every season

 

I'd be on board.

 

I just don't think they are.

 

The organization* has been doing the "retool and make the playoffs" thing for, literally, 10 years culminating in one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

 

But THIS time...

 

[CoachX]

@radoran

 

Yeah, my recent posts are all from the perspective its JG. I dont see me tuning it just for Forsberg. He's a good player, but not in the upper tier (my opinion only)

[mojo1917]

@radoran

@CoachX

 

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vc25vd3RoZWdvYWxpZQ/episode/NzE2NTQzMGUtZTJlZC0xMWVjLWFjZTctZDM0YjE3Mjg2MGI5?ep=14

 

Okay so this is noted rabble router Anthony SanFillipo and, the audio manifestation of the internet troll, Russ Joy's podcast.

Chris Therrien is the third musketeers usually but I think he is off doing Ice Wars...

 

They are having the very same conversation we are in this thread.

 

I found it interesting. 

 

Ant makes a good point for the sign a guy and try to compete now crowd. Russ does a good job playing the skeptic.

 

I can see where all sides of "proper way forward" have merit.

 

I think I fall into the Russ Joy- get a Montgomery type coach, let the bad contracts expire and try to draw the high-end talent next year camp.  It seems like a better path for sustained quality. 

 

However, Ant does a pretty good job of presenting the sign the guy this year and the future isn't necessarily mortgaged paths.

 

It was interesting to me and mirrored what we're talking about here.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by mojo1917

[Dumpster Hockey]

Here is something that has been floating around in my mind about Johnny Gaudreau possibly coming to the Flyers. First, my thinking is what has to get done before the fact of even the possibility of signing JG because the Flyers are so up against the wall with the salary cap. Then I thought what if this is made possible and the team improves to the point that they make the playoffs the following year. In my thinking, I don't believe that one superstar with the remainder of this Flyers team would get this team any more than a loss in the 1st round of the playoff. Hell, the Flames are a much better club and they almost went out in the 1st round with JG to Dallas this season and then they did fall to Edmonton. 

 

So would it be better not to sign a guy like Gaudreau and suck terribly this upcoming season and deal with it? Have the best chance at the #1 draft pick next season in Connor Bedard and hope the Flyers are not screwed by the New Jersey Devils in the Draft Lottery. 

 

I don't like the idea of having to watch the team suck again next season, but the chance of getting a franchise player in Bedard excited the hell out of me way more than signing Gaudreau for tons of money and getting to the 1st round of the playoffs and going down. 

 

I am wondering if anyone else has that same mindset as me?

Edited June 5, 2022 by Gritty Fanatic

[mojo1917]

@Gritty Fanatic

Even if they can't pick Bedard...(NYR miraculously gets the pick after their 2nd trip to the cup finals.) I'm ready for it.

 

The 23 draft is supposed to rival some of the best drafts in recent memory. 03, 06 come to mind.

 

It would be a good time to be bad. The draft is deep and even though Bedard is the generational talent at the top, there are many really good players available that can be the foundation of the team going forward.

 

As I said earlier,  I think I'm alright with letting bad contracts expire, giving young players lots of NHL ice time this coming season. If the 2 worst contracts are Hayes and Risto (JvR is allowed to walk or a deadline deal), moving one of those 2 players isn't as daunting. Also, it would be good for the salary cap to rise a little. 

TL:DR I can wait.

Edited June 5, 2022 by mojo1917

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The Russian kid in the 2023 draft is pretty comparable with Bedard as well. We're kind of biased to North American players because hockey media, but the Euros are superb this upcoming draft. However, I expect the pick to be traded for 'competitive' reasons.

[mojo1917]

7 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

The Russian kid in the 2023 draft is pretty comparable with Bedard as well. We're kind of biased to North American players because hockey media, but the Euros are superb this upcoming draft. However, I expect the pick to be traded for 'competitive' reasons.

Do you think the Flyers could trade down to 8-10 pick up another asset, ('23 2nd rounder) and still get Savioe ?

Is that too savvy of a move? 

I think the "lower body injury" he sustained at the end of the season may cause him to drop.

 

If that's the move, I'd be fine.

As would all but the worst haters.

[flyercanuck]

33 minutes ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

Here is something that has been floating around in my mind about Johnny Gaudreau possibly coming to the Flyers. First, my thinking is what has to get done before the fact of even the possibility of signing JG because the Flyers are so up against the wall with the salary cap. Then I thought what if this is made possible and the team improves to the point that they make the playoffs the following year. In my thinking, I don't believe that one superstar with the remainder of this Flyers team would get this team any more than a loss in the 1st round of the playoff. Hell, the Flames are a much better club and they almost went out in the 1st round with JG to Dallas this season and then they did fall to Edmonton. 

 

So would it be better not to sign a guy like Gaudreau and suck terribly this upcoming season and deal with it? Have the best chance at the #1 draft pick next season in Connor Bedard and hope the Flyers are not screwed by the New Jersey Devils in the Draft Lottery. 

 

I don't like the idea of having to watch the team suck again next season, but the chance of getting a franchise player in Bedard excited the hell out of me way more than signing Gaudreau for tons of money and getting to the 1st round of the playoffs and going down. 

 

I am wondering if anyone else has that same mindset as me?

 

I don't know how anyone doesn't have this mindset. Ya, let's just keep doing this same stupid crap that got us....5th worst in the entire league while being up against the cap, no 1st last year, no 2nd this year, no 2nd next year, some really bad contracts going forward...who doesn't want to keep doing that?

[CoachX]

33 minutes ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

Here is something that has been floating around in my mind about Johnny Gaudreau possibly coming to the Flyers. First, my thinking is what has to get done before the fact of even the possibility of signing JG because the Flyers are so up against the wall with the salary cap. Then I thought what if this is made possible and the team improves to the point that they make the playoffs the following year. In my thinking, I don't believe that one superstar with the remainder of this Flyers team would get this team any more than a loss in the 1st round of the playoff. Hell, the Flames are a much better club and they almost went out in the 1st round with JG to Dallas this season and then they did fall to Edmonton. 

 

So would it be better not to sign a guy like Gaudreau and suck terribly this upcoming season and deal with it? Have the best chance at the #1 draft pick next season in Connor Bedard and hope the Flyers are not screwed by the New Jersey Devils in the Draft Lottery. 

 

I don't like the idea of having to watch the team suck again next season, but the chance of getting a franchise player in Bedard excited the hell out of me way more than signing Gaudreau for tons of money and getting to the 1st round of the playoffs and going down. 

 

I am wondering if anyone else has that same mindset as me?

You make great points. My issue with it, and many similar to it, is its based off a conclusion that isn't absolute. There is no guarantee that JG would only be good enough to help them get a first round exit. He could prove to be a spark plug that, coupled with others moves, makes a real impact.

 

I read an article about how Trotz was able to take Barzal from a single dimension offensive player, to a more complete team guy. This was one of the things thay helped the NYI play the way they were

[CoachX]

23 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

As I said earlier,  I think I'm alright with letting bad contracts expire, giving young players lots of NHL ice time this coming season. If the 2 worst contracts are Hayes and Risto JvR is allowed to walk or a deadline deal, moving one of those 2 players isn't as daunting. Also, it would be good for the salary cap to rise a little. 

I've been championing the signing of JG, but I would really be ok if the team went this route. It would just be another tough season where I paid more attention to the forum than the actual games

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I don't know how anyone doesn't have this mindset

Because my head is made of cement and I like bugging you

[CoachX]

Someone mentioned Jim Montgomery. I've been high on this guy since AV was let go.... still want trotz or torts, but I would be happy with JM

[Dumpster Hockey]

4 minutes ago, CoachX said:

You make great points. My issue with it, and many similar to it, is its based off a conclusion that isn't absolute. There is no guarantee that JG would only be good enough to help them get a first round exit. He could prove to be a spark plug that, coupled with others moves, makes a real impact.

 

I read an article about how Trotz was able to take Barzal from a single dimension offensive player, to a more complete team guy. This was one of the things thay helped the NYI play the way they were

The thought of having JG get the Flyers to the players and an exit in the 1st round is the best scenario situation. I don't know if that would happen or not. Yes, JG would be exciting to have on the Flyers but for what cost. The moves they would have to make first before they even attempt to sign him would then also leave them having to fill a few other holes along the way. Then what do they do about that?

 

As a fan I don't want to see them keep on losing, but I also see what is available in next years draft and that is very exciting. So really one more year of this mess and getting a younger franchise player than what JG would be and if it would somehow turn out to be Bedard even better. 

 

I would still suffer through the games no matter if they are losing or winning because I feel that is what a fan does with the team they follow. Hell, last season was awful and I made it through that. 

[mojo1917]

42 minutes ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

The thought of having JG get the Flyers to the players and an exit in the 1st round is the best scenario situation. I don't know if that would happen or not.

This also presumes that no other improvements are possible. The team is Johnny Hockey,  Couturier and Tippett. Hope you love it.

Given the Flyers recent luck with everything,  I'd say they're due for some mediocre to good luck soon.

 

Should the Flyers sign JG he turns out to be really good and then Old Forrester shows he's ready, the #5 pick can contribute in year 2, York becomes a 1a or stong 3...could be JG is the lynch pin in a Renaissance for the team.

 

Anticipating the worst outcome all the time gets tiresome for me . YMMV

(Your mileage may vary)

[Dumpster Hockey]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This also presumes that no other improvements are possible. The team is Johnny Hockey,  Couturier and Tippett. Hope you love it.

Given the Flyers recent luck with everything,  I'd say they're due for some mediocre to good luck soon.

 

Should the Flyers sign JG he turns out to be really good and then Old Forrester shows he's ready, the #5 pick can contribute in year 2, York becomes a 1a or stong 3...could be JG is the lynch pin in a Renaissance for the team.

 

Anticipating the worst outcome all the time gets tiresome for me . YMMV

(Your mileage may vary)

I do see improvement from players like Couturier, Tippet, Farabee, Sanheim, York, Frost, Cates and if they use Lindblom correctly he will utilize he skills much better. Then players like Foerster, Laczynski, and Allison could even pitch in. Attard could also be a piece to all of this as could the health of Ryan Ellis. 

 

Johnny Hockey could most certainly become the franchise player this Flyers team desperately needs, but like we both have said many other players need to improve as well. I would love that to happen but I have to think realistically. We as Flyers fans have had this mentality with the likes of Konecny and Provorov and they have all but leveled off. 

 

I am not saying in any way that Bedard or any other top draftee in the 2023 draft is the magical answer as well, but it is a much younger option and one that can be developed from the beginning in the Flyers organization. 

 

I am not 100% sure what is the best scenario to go. I have always been of the mindset that a team that is young and develops together does really well. 

[SCFlyguy]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

You make great points. My issue with it, and many similar to it, is its based off a conclusion that isn't absolute. There is no guarantee that JG would only be good enough to help them get a first round exit. He could prove to be a spark plug that, coupled with others moves, makes a real impact.

 

I read an article about how Trotz was able to take Barzal from a single dimension offensive player, to a more complete team guy. This was one of the things thay helped the NYI play the way they were

Trotz is a good coach, no doubt, but those Islanders teams had a lot of young talent that was coming up through the ranks right as Trotz got there.  Way bigger factor than Trotz and Barzal was the development of Pelech and Pulock.  They also had a lot of really good middle six guys on decent contracts.

[mojo1917]

30 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said:

Trotz and Barzal was the development of Pelech and Pulock.  They also had a lot of really good middle six guys on decent contracts.

Well actually,  Provorov and Sanheim,  all the the guys we have playing higher in the lineup are probably better suited for middle six roles...some are on okay contracts. 

 

I see some similarities.

Where the Flyers are lacking is the Barzal player. 

[CoachX]

8 hours ago, Gritty Fanatic said:

The thought of having JG get the Flyers to the players and an exit in the 1st round is the best scenario situation

Why is this? 

[GrittyForever]

12 hours ago, CoachX said:

I read an article about how Trotz was able to take Barzal from a single dimension offensive player, to a more complete team guy. This was one of the things thay helped the NYI play the way they were

Except wasn't Trotz fired because Barzal didn't want to re-sign and said he wouldn't play for him any more? That was the rumour anyway. 

 

 

[Dumpster Hockey]

11 hours ago, CoachX said:

Why is this? 

The next sentence in that post states , I don't know if that will happen or not. Also the word players should actually be playoffs. 

 

So what I am actually saying is in responding to your original post to me is signing JG is I really don't know for sure and really no one knows in getting him and adding him to this current team how he will improve the team. Will he even make them a playoff team at all? With him could they make a long run into the playoffs? No one really knows. A lot of other things would have to happen including many other players stepping up.

[CoachX]

9 hours ago, GrittyForever said:

Except wasn't Trotz fired because Barzal didn't want to re-sign and said he wouldn't play for him any more? That was the rumour anyway. 

 

 

I have no idea. And that really wasn't my point

 

However if this is true, I'm not surprised. Today's players put thier individual success and finances above team needs on a regular basis. 

[mojo1917]

@FireDillabaugh

RE: Barzal... he is without question the most dynamic player on that team.

He's among the fastest skaters in the league and has the ability to take over games.

The Flyers don't have that player on their team. 

That's the point that was being made.

You can insert another star player's name in Matthew's place if that helps you participate in the conversation constructively.

 

In the case of Johnny Gadreau, he is a point per game player, he has had some not great seasons, but they weren't "bad" seasons, especially during the pandemic, the fact remains he is a dynamic offensive player.  The Flyers do not have that kind of offensive player on their roster. Maybe that person is in the system. But JG has demonstrated success at the NHL level.

 

The reference to Old Forrester is a joke, that I reckon you missed, made and earlier in the thread. You aren't really helping anyone by putting that fella's name in quotes. Everyone knows who we're talking about. 

 

I'm pretty sure I never said Johnny Gadreau signing in PHI is the cure-all. 

In fact, I'd prefer to ride this season out and try to find "the guy" next season after some contracts expire.

But, Johnny's signing would immediately make the team more watchable. 

It may convince a quality coach to take Comcast's money.

It could be the beginning of turning the franchise around.

None of these things are out of the realm of the possible.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

On 6/4/2022 at 7:58 PM, Cheesesteak said:

If we were to go after any type of FA, you don't go for a 28-29 year old who will be washed up on 2-3 years and then your stuck with a long contract on a diminishing player. It's stupid since we are 4-5 years away from being a good team. We already are in a bad cap situation with Coots, Hayes, Ellis and Atkinson. So it's a better idea to go after a young RFA that another team may have trouble signing and work out a deal and the player is young enough to build around . Guys like Dubois, Laine and Tkachuck are UFAs for example

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, CoachX said:

I have no idea. And that really wasn't my point

 

However if this is true, I'm not surprised. Today's players put thier individual success and finances above team needs on a regular basis. 

Yes , they are all selfish, whining pu$$ies