Game 23: New Jersey Devils at Philadelphia Flyers; 11/30/23 @ 7 PM, NBCSP

[pilldoc]

6 hours ago, tucson83 said:

 

what is your goal here? be a dynasty? winning one cup isnt good enough for you?

 

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Where's the one cup? 

 

Nevermind, found it.

 

 

5 hours ago, tucson83 said:

im just asking a simple question, you cant handle a team winning one stanley cup, it has be 5 cups in row like the islanders? simple yes or no?

 

I think the point being presented is not to just win ONE Cup BUT be in an excellent position, roster-wise,  to potentially win multiple cups.  Because of salary cap restrictions and the way contracts are nowadays I don't think you will ever see the runs made by teams like the Isles and Oilers in the early/mid 80's.   The idea, if I am understanding everyone's view point is to at least be in the SCF conversation every year like the Tampa / Chicago / Pittsburgh teams of years past.  Not just a 1 and done flash in the pan ......

 

So yes .... this team needs the best possible core of players to do that .....

[OccamsRazor]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:50 PM, flyercanuck said:

The reason I wouldn't trade Hart is because it's so hard for the Flyers to find a decent goalie

 

It would be like they didn't learn anything form trading Bob in my eyes.

[OccamsRazor]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:37 PM, flyercanuck said:

Well Jones and Briere got rid of most of Fletchers complete failures

 

 

Sweet baby Jesus have ever wanted more to be true???
 

 

Give me the Canuck's 5th rounder they have

 

the Blackhawk's 5th in 2025 and we have a deal.

 

Buh bye Risto wish you well...

[flyercanuck]

8 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

Sweet baby Jesus have ever wanted more to be true???
 

 

Give me the Canuck's 5th rounder they have

 

the Blackhawk's 5th in 2025 and we have a deal.

 

Buh bye Risto wish you well...

 

I'd give them OUR 5th rounder just so I don;t have to watch that idiot in a Flyer uni ever again.

 

But if someones willing to give us something for him...don't be playing hardball Danny.

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I'd give them OUR 5th rounder just so I don;t have to watch that idiot in a Flyer uni ever again.

 

But if someones willing to give us something for him...don't be playing hardball Danny.

 

Amen. Get something get nothing either way the Flyers are better w/out Ristolainen.

 

All in all he hasn't played bad he's just too damn slow. 3 times last night he tried skating the puck out of danger - 3 times he was stripped from behind. That can happen to anyone - I'm not knocking the guy just for those 3 plays. But his "off the line" foot speed is a huge liability.

 

These days everybody needs good foot speed and the first 4 steps make all the difference.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by GratefulFlyers

[OccamsRazor]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:10 PM, flyercanuck said:

 

I'd give them OUR 5th rounder just so I don;t have to watch that idiot in a Flyer uni ever again.

 

But if someones willing to give us something for him...don't be playing hardball Danny.

 

Anthony DiMarco.

 

Leafs and Risto heating up.

 

Getr Done Danny.

[ruxpin]

54 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Anthony DiMarco.

 

Leafs and Risto heating up.

 

Getr Done Danny.

Could be interesting.   The Maple Leafs don't have a ton of interesting trade capital, assuming that Nylander is off the table -- I wouldn't put him on it.

 

So, they have their 2024 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th.

2025 is ugly:   3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th.  (When did Clarkgren start running the Leafs?)

2026, they have everything but their 2nd.

 

I don't know a ton about most of their prospects, but Easton Cown and/or (maybe) Noah Chadwick would be my asks.

 

If I'm trading Risto to the Leafs and it's not simply about subtraction, I'm retaining $2M/season for two years and asking for Max Domi ($3M --plus the $2M retain) helps the Leafs get down to the cap and he's a UFA this summer so maybe flip him at the deadline; if not, he's off your books), plus their 4th and either Cown or Chadwick or both.

 

Out:   Risto

In:   2024 4th, Domi, Cown/Chadwick

 

OR:

Out:  Risto

In:  Domi, 2024 1st.

 

I'm dreaming with the first.  I just don't see it, but apparently Toronto trades picks because it's Tuesday, so...

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

Could be interesting.   The Maple Leafs don't have a ton of interesting trade capital, assuming that Nylander is off the table -- I wouldn't put him on it.

 

So, they have their 2024 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th.

2025 is ugly:   3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th.  (When did Clarkgren start running the Leafs?)

2026, they have everything but their 2nd.

 

I don't know a ton about most of their prospects, but Easton Cown and/or (maybe) Noah Chadwick would be my asks.

 

If I'm trading Risto to the Leafs and it's not simply about subtraction, I'm retaining $2M/season for two years and asking for Max Domi ($3M --plus the $2M retain) helps the Leafs get down to the cap and he's a UFA this summer so maybe flip him at the deadline; if not, he's off your books), plus their 4th and either Cown or Chadwick or both.

 

Out:   Risto

In:   2024 4th, Domi, Cown/Chadwick

 

OR:

Out:  Risto

In:  Domi, 2024 1st.

 

I'm dreaming with the first.  I just don't see it, but apparently Toronto trades picks because it's Tuesday, so...

 

 

He was gone before I even received your offer...whatever it is SOLD!!!

[radoran]

3 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

When did Clarkgren start running the Leafs?

 

1967

 

[GratefulFlyers]

Wow if Briere can swing Domi out of the deal …. probably too much to hope for but I love the thought! 

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Wow if Briere can swing Domi out of the deal …. probably too much to hope for but I love the thought! 

 

Don't know, either, from a hockey point of view.  The money and term involved kind of worked, though.

I don't see any way a 1st is involved if Domi is, though.   I don't think Domi is doing all that great in Toronto, though, so they may view it as cutting their losses.    I don't live in Ottawa, so I don't watch a lot of Leafs to know.

Edited December 7, 2023 by ruxpin

[GratefulFlyers]

24 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I don't think Domi is doing all that great in Toronto, though

Hmm interesting I haven’t watched the Leafs at all this year. I remember Domi from years past and wishing the Flyers had him. Jeez now that I think about it that was a long time  ago when he was in Montreal. I know it’s been awhile since he played a full season…and he’s probably close to 30…. Maybe it isn’t such a “wow” deal for the Flyers after all.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Hmm interesting I haven’t watched the Leafs at all this year. I remember Domi from years past and wishing the Flyers had him. Jeez now that I think about it that was a long time  ago when he was in Montreal. I know it’s been awhile since he played a full season…and he’s probably close to 30…. Maybe it isn’t such a “wow” deal for the Flyers after all.

 

The only way I take Domi is if we get a better draft pick with him. And deal him at the  deadline for anything.

[ruxpin]

33 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The only way I take Domi is if we get a better draft pick with him. And deal him at the  deadline for anything.

 

This is exactly where I am.  I suggested only because the cap math kind of worked.   But I have to get picks/prospects to compensate.  You probably know the prospects better than I do, but there's not much outside of Cown and Chadwick that I'm terribly interested it.    Got anyone else, or does this become strictly a pick fishing trip?

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

This is exactly where I am.  I suggested only because the cap math kind of worked.   But I have to get picks/prospects to compensate.  You probably know the prospects better than I do, but there's not much outside of Cown and Chadwick that I'm terribly interested it.    Got anyone else, or does this become strictly a pick fishing trip?

 

I'd prefer a pick, since I really don't see anything on their farm that makes me go "Wow, wish we had that on Philly".

 

But again, I'll take whatever to get rid of Ristolainen.

[mojo1917]

I've heard Toronto wants some salary retention on Risto, I'm not sure where that particular line is to make trading him there a good fit.

He's played well enough since December of last year to think on that team he's in the top 4. 

Do the Flyers keep a million $ a year to get a draft pick or two?

I don't think I keep more than 1 million bucks worth of dead money for a player they need. 

Does the money saved on his contract mean that Walker can be signed to team friendly for a few years? If the brass is leaning that way?

I'd like to trade Risto but I would want to be smart about it. Is an extra late round 1st and a 2nd in 25 worth dead money? If yes, how much?

 

I think it really comes down to when do Danny Jonesy® think the window opens for real? Do they want to be paying for Risto to be  playing elsewhere when they're trying to sign or trade for the volume scorer or #1 defenseman? 

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I've heard Toronto wants some salary retention on Risto, I'm not sure where that particular line is to make trading him there a good fit.

 

 

I'm good with that what do they get in return?

 

No players they have in the minors i really want there farm team has been picked clean over the years going for it all.

 

Fraser Minten and maybe a 3rd in 2025 and we are good just be happy to move him.

 

But if they wait a good chance they get more from another team??

 

I just want Risto gone somewhere else.

[GratefulFlyers]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I'd like to trade Risto but I would want to be smart about it.

I don’t mind if they “lose the trade” as long as Ristolainen’s gone. His contract is up in what, 3 years? Or is it 2? Anyway the Flyers won’t be paying him for too terribly long. And if Briere can keep the retention to a million that’ll be a huge win. I’m guessing whoever takes him will insist on the max 50%. Even then…do it.
 

Yes Ristolainen’s been fine this year, for Ristolainen. You know what I mean. But he’s simply not good enough to keep on a team that’s trying for younger, faster, smarter. 
 

[mojo1917]

@GratefulFlyers

To me it's not so much about losing the trade as it would be hamstringing the ability to make a move to vastly improve the team when the Danny Jonesy® feel it's "built" but for the scorer or #1 defenseman.

If the Flyers are retaining 2.5 .aav on Risto- that's 2.5 they can't use to lure say, Owen Power away from the Sabres...(for instance).

 

The other part to the equation is identifying the player who is or will be that #1 minutes eating all-purpose stud defenseman and figuring out what it would take to pry them away from their current team...provided that guy isn't in the Flyers system at "go" time.

To me it's not Dougie Hamilton or any of the guys that get mentioned right away when I think of #1s. So not Hedman, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Letang or Karlsson. They're all too old.

Maybe Fox, McAvoy or Slavin? 

I don't know. 

 

It will cost beaucoup something  money, prospects, and assets to get that #1 if they can't be developed in house. 

[GratefulFlyers]

All good points but I think they’re based on a timeline that may not be realistic. Specifically, do you see the Flyers being “one stud D-man away” in the next 2 years? Because I don’t I’m not overly concerned with retaining salary to get Ristolainen gone. You’re right of course it will diminish the Flyers’ cap space somewhat, the question is will it block them from landing who they want. It’s a risk no two ways about it.
 

But there’s also the draft. As @Podein25 reminded me recently if your scouts are good they may just find that elusive “stud D-man,” someone who’s likely not on everyone’s radar. Another risky move but in a way that’s what a rebuild is all about. 

[SCFlyguy]

Agree the window doesn’t open up for at least two years, so retention doesn’t matter during that period.

[mojo1917]

@GratefulFlyers

@SCFlyguy

I'm too lazy to look at cap friendly so I'm not sure when which bad contract comes off the books.

I think Risto has 3 more years, I think Ellis is coming off then. I mean depending on how much salary is retained that could be 8.25 .aav of dead money.

That would go a long way toward luring a top player to the team.

 

I do not know when other free agents become available. What are McAvoy's or Fox's statuses?

Those guys are playing for good teams in big markets so if they are the target the Flyers will need all the $$$ they can find. 

 

Having cap flexibility could make bringing that high dollar acquisition to the team easier. 

There is also the possibility that the target free agent becomes available sooner than expected, it would stink to miss out on them because the Flyers are paying for Ristolainen to play in Toronto.

 

I know it's probably 2 to 4 years until the team is built the way we're thinking it will/should be; so retaining $ for that period isn't a deal breaker, beyond that though ?

 

[radoran]

44 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I think Risto has 3 more years, I think Ellis is coming off then.

 

Fun fact: it's also the last year they pay Bryzgalov.

 

True story.

 

[GratefulFlyers]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I'm too lazy to look at cap friendly so I'm not sure when which bad contract comes off the books.

I think Risto has 3 more years,

 

35 minutes ago, radoran said:

it's also the last year they pay Bryzgalov.

 

Now that is auspicious…the timing strikes me just right.

[radoran]

46 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

it would stink to miss out on them because the Flyers are paying for Ristolainen to play in Toronto.

 

The flip side of that argument is that the full weight of Ristolainen's salary doesn't help, either...

 

The Flyers aren't in bad shape cap wise, especially long term.

 

That's also where stocking the young talent shelves comes into play.