Flyers Half-Way Assessment: Your Take?

[SCFlyguy]

Like, I'm actually enraged that a supposed Flyer fan would think that this team's problem has been they've been stingy paying players over the years.  I'm just going to assume that @GratefulFlyersjust woke up in 2022 from 40 years in hibernation.

 

You're like a kid who just mowed his first lawn and is going to blow it all on candy.

[GratefulFlyers]

oh my do I have to? So easy to recall the stupid overpays, harder to remember the ones the Flyers let walk. Not every one of them went on to produce like Patrick Sharp but there’s been plenty others. But I can tell by your tone that whoever I name you’ll just knock, say the Flyers were better off without him etc. I won’t argue it out. Nothing personal I’m just done defending Tippett. If you can’t appreciate his worth by now I guess you never will. 

[SCFlyguy]

I knew you were going to say Patrick Sharp.  They didn't trade Patrick Sharp over money.  Try again.  I am waiting, but you won't come up with one, because there are none.

[SCFlyguy]

40 years and not one player they lost over money.  Doesn't that say something to you other than "open the checkbook."

[OccamsRazor]

9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yep.

 

 

I'll be happy if you sell...

 

Many folks forget what the plan was.

 

Many got mad and claimed management would get fooled and want to chase the playoffs and here we are and many fans now have been fooled and now they too want to chase the playoffs.

 

No remain on course sell to help speed up the rebuild don't lose focus of the mission.

[SCFlyguy]

Thank god for Torts.

 

This is a very easy team to root for that is starting to get me over my hatred of the organization.

 

I think they should trade Walker and Seeler at the deadline and hope it doesn't tank the playoffs.  It would be great to see them playing with house money.  Absent any no-brainer deals, everything else can wait for the offseason. 

[flyerdog]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:25 PM, mojo1917 said:

I think until Carter Hart's play falls off. The answer is no.

Carter has played just as well and done it for a little longer than Sam.

To me it's still Carter's net.

He hasn't lost it.

This is a good "problem" to have. 

and how long has it been since we could say that about the goalie position....uncharted territory here

[mojo1917]

15 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

Zegras in the lineup and Frost and Brink gone makes the team better.

I know you haven't been high on Brink, what do you see that influences your opinion?

 

I think the kid has excellent instincts, he gets to the puck, he finds space, but is just not able to do the next thing, put a shot on net, or separate a player from the puck in the NHL yet. It looks to me like he's 5-10 lbs away from being stronger on the puck and in the corners. 

 

Do you think he's not going to take that next step where he puts it all together?

 

 

[mojo1917]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

1st (Panthers) 3rd, Brink and Tippett should be enough

For one player? not named Connor McDavid.

Too beaucoup mon frere.

 

 

To me, that looks like poor asset management the other way. 

Young players seem to be developing under the coaching staff. Maybe a good group of forwards is already here?

I'm not going to list the players, but I see talent on the roster and I see guys making sandwiches with what the staff is laying out.

Watching this team as constructed I had low expectations, we're more than halfway through the season, this team plays hard and fast, and they have some skill showing up. 

They don't look like a team that needs to be torn down to the studs. To me anyway.

Your proposal makes it seem like you do. 

 

 

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Many got mad and claimed management would get fooled and want to chase the playoffs and here we are and many fans now have been fooled and now they too want to chase the playoffs.

I think the "plan" was and is, sound. Problem is, no one saw this team playing like this. I don't see how they can dismantle it, or parts of it, just to say they stuck to the plan. That's like the Eagles sticking to the pass because they are committed to Hurts. We saw the result. Okay, that apples and oranges, but I'm sure you get my point.

 

I think the Flyers can do both. I take Torts' comments to mean, dont get over eager and sell the farm for some superstar who might be available. I don't see why they can't keep the roster in tact, with the intent to let them play it out, while keeping an eye on moves that might fit "the plan". What is so bad about this team making the playoffs? Doesnt it mean experience for these young guys? I think that is a valuable commodity for a young roster to mature. The current management team is not the same dumbasses who have been throwing away assets for the last 40 years. I dont think BD and KJ are  sitting around thinking they are making the playoffs so lets go all in. Its prolly more like, "Holy Shidt, we might actually make the plyoffs. How cool is that?"

 

Im looking at this team the same way I would an expansion team, a rag tag roster of youth and possibilites, with a few older guys. Expansion teams can surprise

[flyercanuck]

17 minutes ago, CoachX said:

I think the "plan" was and is, sound. Problem is, no one saw this team playing like this. I don't see how they can dismantle it, or parts of it, just to say they stuck to the plan. That's like the Eagles sticking to the pass because they are committed to Hurts. We saw the result. Okay, that apples and oranges, but I'm sure you get my point.

 

I think the Flyers can do both. I take Torts' comments to mean, dont get over eager and sell the farm for some superstar who might be available. I don't see why they can't keep the roster in tact, with the intent to let them play it out, while keeping an eye on moves that might fit "the plan". What is so bad about this team making the playoffs? Doesnt it mean experience for these young guys? I think that is a valuable commodity for a young roster to mature. The current management team is not the same dumbasses who have been throwing away assets for the last 40 years. I dont think BD and KJ are  sitting around thinking they are making the playoffs so lets go all in. Its prolly more like, "Holy Shidt, we might actually make the plyoffs. How cool is that?"

 

Im looking at this team the same way I would an expansion team, a rag tag roster of youth and possibilites, with a few older guys. Expansion teams can surprise

 

The biggest problem with making the playoffs, when you're supposedly trying to rebuild, is the draft pick you get. Of course there is a chance of getting a star player further down the board, but it's much easier when you pick higher, obviously. The Flyers haven't exactly been knocking it out of the park with their picks over the last 20 years, and of course none of us has any idea if Briere and company know what they're doing at the draft table. 

 

I'm impressed with how much better this team is than I thought they were going to be...but in no way do I think this is a championship calibre team. We still have Michkov (hopefully) coming, but he's really the only "star" type we have in the system. And while we are waiting for him to come over, guys like Couturier are inching closer and closer to their game going downhill. Which is why, IMHO, you need to get players/picks that will coincide with what the age of your nucleus should be. 

 

So either we're rebuilding or we're not. Sitting on the fence, which is what we're basically doing right now, is going to get us where we are. 

 

Otherwise, it's just more of the same as Rad likes to quote: "definitely a playoff team" and also definitely NOT a championship team.

Edited January 19 by flyercanuck

[CoachX]

45 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

The biggest problem with making the playoffs, when you're supposedly trying to rebuild, is the draft pick you get. Of course there is a chance of getting a star player further down the board, but it's much easier when you pick higher, obviously. The Flyers haven't exactly been knocking it out of the park with their picks over the last 20 years, and of course none of us has any idea if Briere and company know what they're doing at the draft table. 

 

I'm impressed with how much better this team is than I thought they were going to be...but in no way do I think this is a championship calibre team. We still have Michkov (hopefully) coming, but he's really the only "star" type we have in the system. And while we are waiting for him to come over, guys like Couturier are inching closer and closer to their game going downhill. Which is why, IMHO, you need to get players/picks that will coincide with what the age of your nucleus should be. 

 

So either we're rebuilding or we're not. Sitting on the fence, which is what we're basically doing right now, is going to get us where we are. 

 

Otherwise, it's just more of the same as Rad likes to quote: "definitely a playoff team" and also definitely NOT a championship team.

good stuff right there. Solid post.

 

The question in my mind is, what do yo do now? You can't make them tank. You could dismantle in hopes of sending them into a losing spiral, but what GM/Coach would do that?

 

Is there a possibility of letting them go as far as they can, assess from there, and then decide if you have a strong enough nucleus to build a contender? Then maybe add top tier talent? Or is it best to ride the wave, make some moves you think are solid, and wait until.....IDK, some other time?

[GratefulFlyers]

47 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

So either we're rebuilding or we're not.

 

This is the only part I'd quibble with - I don't think it's that simple and I also think you can do both - make the POs and keep rebuilding.

 

Like I said somewhere else the POs are not just a reward for playing well they're a unique experience and mighty valuable for a team esp its younger players. I'd love to see them get that experience early in the rebuild.

 

Definitely a sacrifice in the draft order but let's face it that ship has already sailed. They're not likely to finish much lower than ... I dunno 15th? 20th? And most likely they'll finish above 15th. So it'll probably be a late 1st (assuming we have one) at best. Or maybe Briere trades up who knows? The point is imho the POs are worth pursuing - not at the expense of the rebuild process but simply letting the team play as they're doing and landing wherever they land.

 

by all means trade for more picks/prospects - Walker Seeler Atkinson and your fav and mine Risto Ristolainen... but a "tank" is moot at this point.

[radoran]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

I think the "plan" was and is, sound. Problem is, no one saw this team playing like this.

 

Torts had the Blue Jackets in the playoffs in his second year there. 3rd in the Metro.

 

They lost in the first round.

 

Made it the next three years. Got as far as the second round.

 

And the Jackets have built upon that momentum in the years since Torts left in 2021.

 

 

It's good they're playing well. It's good they seem to have a good perspective on what that means.

 

Let them head out and do as well as they can.

 

But that doesn't mean they're on a glide path to real competition.

 

We'll see.

[CoachX]

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Torts had the Blue Jackets in the playoffs in his second year there. 3rd in the Metro.

 

They lost in the first round.

 

Made it the next three years. Got as far as the second round.

 

And the Jackets have built upon that momentum in the years since Torts left in 2021.

 

 

It's good they're playing well. It's good they seem to have a good perspective on what that means.

 

Let them head out and do as well as they can.

 

But that doesn't mean they're on a glide path to real competition.

 

We'll see.

fair point. Let me ask you this question, what happens if they continue having success against the top teams in the league? Does that put them on the glide path or are they just a bunch of over achievers?

 

I'm really taken aback, but damn, they are playing strong against some top tier teams

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, CoachX said:

fair point. Let me ask you this question, what happens if they continue having success against the top teams in the league? Does that put them on the glide path or are they just a bunch of over achievers?

 

I'm really taken aback, but damn, they are playing strong against some top tier teams

 

First of all, if they think there IS a glide path, they're screwed.

 

 

How many times did we see good Flyers teams lose to inferior competition during the regular season?

 

That said, you do have to be impressed with their play

That's why I have some hard earned semolians plunked down to go actually watch them.

 

They can be an entertaining, fun to watch playoff team.

 

I'm sure Columbus felt pretty good about winning their first playoff round, too.

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

For one player? not named Connor McDavid.

Too beaucoup mon frere.

 

 

To me, that looks like poor asset management the other way. 

Young players seem to be developing under the coaching staff. Maybe a good group of forwards is already here?

I'm not going to list the players, but I see talent on the roster and I see guys making sandwiches with what the staff is laying out.

Watching this team as constructed I had low expectations, we're more than halfway through the season, this team plays hard and fast, and they have some skill showing up. 

They don't look like a team that needs to be torn down to the studs. To me anyway.

Your proposal makes it seem like you do. 

 

 

 

None of that is set in stone just threw that out there.

 

Not going to sit here and argue opinions.

 

I said what I said and stand by it.

[mojo1917]

Two first picks in the next 2 drafts.

I still think the team needs more centermen and that 25-minute-a-night #1 guy to show up.

 

 Starting with point two; York, Drysdale, and Sanhiem are pretty solid vets at the very least. Adding to that Andrae and Bonk maybe Attard (I haven't been following him). That could be a very solid defense corps. I didn't mention Zamula but he's looking middle pairing to me right now- Like York his confidence seems to be growing each time out.

 

I think the Flyers could use 2 centermen in that 19-23-year-old range (as we speak today) to solidify the line-up.

Frost, eh still eh on that guy he's playing better, looks like his GSI for making mistakes is at an all-time low and it's actually helped him. (GSI= Give a $hit Index)). But Like @flyer4ever he doesn't do it for me.

 

It doesn't seem like there is anyone in LHV, I don't remember being excited about any draft picks. I mean we ( maybe just me) were hoping Quitter G could play the pivot.  He won't.  Those are the needs, the rest of the POWs the Hathaways, Deslaurieres etcetera are just fine and doing what they're supposed to. 

 

Anyway the deficiencies of the organization aren't dire. You want the team to be strong down the middle and they aren't there yet.

So if some of these fringe guys (Walker, Seeler, or the suddenly hot Cam Atkinson )  can be turned into some extra centerman or picks to use to develop centermen... I'd be excited to make that happen. 

 

[CoachX]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

None of that is set in stone just threw that out there.

 

Not going to sit here and argue opinions.

 

I said what I said and stand by it.

you seem angry

 

do you need a hug?

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

First of all, if they think there IS a glide path, they're screwed.

 

 

How many times did we see good Flyers teams lose to inferior competition during the regular season?

 

That said, you do have to be impressed with their play

That's why I have some hard earned semolians plunked down to go actually watch them.

 

They can be an entertaining, fun to watch playoff team.

 

I'm sure Columbus felt pretty good about winning their first playoff round, too.

 

 

And this is the same team that help snap the winless Sharks streak so it is nice to see them playing well but it is important to not be fooled by fools gold.

 

Stick with the rebuild plans results be damned right now purge the pieces that don't fit.

 

And if a great deal comes along for a play that helps towards the rebuild do it.

 

Don't be scared to use draft picks to get it done they are crap shoots even in the 2nd round if you ain't in the top 10 at least.

 

Cam you find players in latter round sure they found Ersson in the 5th but then you also have a Ginning in the 2nd who still can't crack the lineup at 24.

 

Do what it takes to push this team towards a Stanely Cup win anything other than that is a failure.

[OccamsRazor]

7 minutes ago, CoachX said:

you seem angry

 

do you need a hug?

 

No just not going to keep chirping the same old tired ass sh it we have been discussing.

 

Most of us all wanted a rebuild and wanted them not to go thru with and now many are wanting to change their minds because they are playing well which some of us said would happen maybe and not to be fooled and now want to go for it- said we would be pissed if management did because they would want too.

 

And here most of you are doing the exact same damn thing whoopty fcuk they are in a playoff spot hunt.

 

Great awesome I wanted a top 5 pick and knew it wouldn't happen the longer they held on to players.

 

And many now are even scared to trade some magic beans because one time Tampa found Kucherov late.

 

They have also bust on 1st and 2nd round picks too see the Flyers.

 

Just done talking the same points.

 

Yall have at it.

[mojo1917]

@OccamsRazor

Can't argue with any of that.

 

I will say, I've been waiting for the wheels to come off...This mid-January time frame and these games were the target dates I had estimated at the beginning of the year for when we'd see the drop-off.

Rather than pooping the bed this group has gotten better.

I was not expecting the level of play and the victories to continue in January when the schedule got tougher. They aren't squeaking past teams, they're dominating good teams. Are they catching these good teams at the right time?  I don't know. This group has smoked some of the best in the West. If last night's Dallas team had 6 more cracks at the Flyers, it didn't look to me like they were winning 4 games.

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@OccamsRazor

Can't argue with any of that.

 

I will say, I've been waiting for the wheels to come off...This mid-January time frame and these games were the target dates I had estimated at the beginning of the year for when we'd see the drop-off.

Rather than pooping the bed this group has gotten better.

I was not expecting the level of play and the victories to continue in January when the schedule got tougher. They aren't squeaking past teams, they're dominating good teams. Are they catching these good teams at the right time?  I don't know. This group has smoked some of the best in the West. If last night's Dallas team had 6 more cracks at the Flyers, it didn't look to me like they were winning 4 games.

 

 

 

Torts tells you right here. I think he really really wants to help this franchise.

 

https://x.com/jceezz/status/1748383558664622337?s=20

[CoachX]

10 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Most of us all wanted a rebuild and wanted them not to go thru with and now many are wanting to change their minds because they are playing well which some of us said would happen maybe and not to be fooled and now want to go for it- said we would be pissed if management did because they would want too

so what should they do, disregard the way they are playing and trade away pieces? What pieces do they trade, and for what?

 

Im not saying "go for it". Im saying the current team is playing well and could make the playoffs. So don't turn over the apple-cart by chasing some high priced (over priced) talent that won't fit long term. If a trade is there that actually makes them better, of course you should take it. Don't mortgage the future for this though. I think they are laying the foundation for what will become a strong team in the next couple of seasons

[GratefulFlyers]

Sticking with the rebuild plan and making the POs are not mutually exclusive. They’re just not. Sorry if that’s not your definition of a “true rebuild “ but I’m okay with it. I actually trust the Flyers management these days.