Flyers Half-Way Assessment: Your Take?

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Time flies.  It's hard to imagine I just posted for Game 42.  I plead guilty to senior status--as you age, time really does seem to move faster.  Nonetheless, the fact that we're finished half the regular season is amazing.  

 

So, here's my take.  If you had asked me at the beginning of the season if we'd be seven games over .500 at this juncture, I'd say no.  If I recall an early post, I thought we'd be lucky to finish at .500.  Unless we really drop off, particularly after March 8th, that shouldn't happen.

 

But...there's the deeper question, and I am torn on it.  Are we getting a Tortorella-driven head fake that leads us to believe a rebuild is taking place?  Or are we building a foundational core of young players who will take us to elite (top 8 to 10) in the league within 2-3 years?  All too often we've felt we're at that point, but discovered we were a year or two away from being a year or two away...blah, blah.  I look at goaltending and say we're set.  D may be taking shape, and the Drysdale acquisition may really help.  But our forward corps is different.  Meanwhile, we don't have a real game changer, and as I've said before, if MM shows up, I will consider it icing on the cake.  When you look at standings in the Metro, it's a reminder that the distance between very good to excellent isn't much.   

 

One thing is clear--this management is candid and playing the long game.  Their handling of the Gauthier gig says a lot about their brains and commitment.  

 

Thoughts?

[otto12]

Spoke earlier about the changing of the guard. New folks running the show. The drafting of MM and the trading of an entitled 19 yr old speaks to me.

The team has no quit and is fun to watch. The future? Who knows but I’m good for now.

[FLYERS67]

2 minutes ago, otto12 said:

Spoke earlier about the changing of the guard. New folks running the show. The drafting of MM and the trading of an entitled 19 yr old speaks to me.

The team has no quit and is fun to watch. The future? Who knows but I’m good for now.

Somehow, someway we need to get MM over here, not sure how that is going to be done.

[otto12]

Don’t know, but the old crew would never have taken the gamble in the first place. So glad they’re no longer in charge.

[ruxpin]

So, who had "halfway marker and 3 points ahead of Tampa with a game in hand" on their Bingo card?

[OccamsRazor]

28 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

So, who had "halfway marker and 3 points ahead of Tampa with a game in hand" on their Bingo card?

 

Noone

[GratefulFlyers]

I’m satisfied with the rebuild so far and very happy seeing the way the team competes every night. I never thought I’d be a John Tortorella fan but I am now. Lineup quibbles aside I think it’s obvious he’s been real good for this roster. 
 

Briere/Jones along with Tortorella have done a great job imho. They talked about “changing the culture” and from what I see on the ice it must be happening. I’d give them all an A- the minus only bc Ristolainen’s still wearing the O&B. Hoping that changes by the TD. 
 

Will Tortorella’s message get old in Year 3? Maybe. He doesn’t seem as arrogant as he was in NY, doesn’t present himself the same way he did back then, either on the bench or in his pressers. But of course there’s a lot fans never get to see. Who knows? For now it’s going well.

 

Looking forward to seeing what the Flyers do at the TD…

 

[tucson83]

love it and im glad it's going in the right direction, playoffs or no playoffs because we are building a foundation of high pick players and it's only going to get better when we add more either from the draft or trades. this team will be a contender very soon.

[GratefulFlyers]

8 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Are we getting a Tortorella-driven head fake that leads us to believe a rebuild is taking place?

Hey Howie can you elaborate a little on this? I’m not sure I follow but I worry that you’re onto something.

 

I’ve been leery about Tortorella’s style all along but he’s won me over this year. Will I still be a fan of his in a year? I wonder. Anyway I’m real curious about the “head fake” you mentioned.

 

Good timing for this thread thanks for thinking of it!

[Howie58]

39 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Hey Howie can you elaborate a little on this? I’m not sure I follow but I worry that you’re onto something.

 

I’ve been leery about Tortorella’s style all along but he’s won me over this year. Will I still be a fan of his in a year? I wonder. Anyway I’m real curious about the “head fake” you mentioned.

 

Good timing for this thread thanks for thinking of it!

Grateful:

 

I think Torts is an acknowledged master at extracting a lot from a talent base, particularly in CBJ, though burnout sets in:

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-following-path-tortorellas-successful-history/

 

Coaching aside--and I laud what he's done with this team--do we think the youngins we have on board will stick and grow, or will be see a multi-year churn to grow talent that may take time to nurture.  As I've said before, I think of the 2008 and 2010 runs as flukes rather than the result of a core that could deliver good play for a stretch.  Heck, Homer all but demolished the 2010 squad pretty quickly.  So I am asking if we are seeing the beginning of the New Era of Orange that takes us several levels higher in a year or two, or is this sort of solid move out of the post-AV funk, but not part of a strong and long move forward?

 

[hmc687]

12 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said:

I’m satisfied with the rebuild so far and very happy seeing the way the team competes every night. I never thought I’d be a John Tortorella fan but I am now. Lineup quibbles aside I think it’s obvious he’s been real good for this roster. 
 

Briere/Jones along with Tortorella have done a great job imho. They talked about “changing the culture” and from what I see on the ice it must be happening. I’d give them all an A- the minus only bc Ristolainen’s still wearing the O&B. Hoping that changes by the TD. 
 

Will Tortorella’s message get old in Year 3? Maybe. He doesn’t seem as arrogant as he was in NY, doesn’t present himself the same way he did back then, either on the bench or in his pressers. But of course there’s a lot fans never get to see. Who knows? For now it’s going well.

 

Looking forward to seeing what the Flyers do at the TD…

 

 

Gonna be tough to move Risto and that contract, but he's at least being used better...

[notfondajane]

20 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Greetings:

 

Time flies.  It's hard to imagine I just posted for Game 42.  I plead guilty to senior status--as you age, time really does seem to move faster.  Nonetheless, the fact that we're finished half the regular season is amazing.  

 

So, here's my take.  If you had asked me at the beginning of the season if we'd be seven games over .500 at this juncture, I'd say no.  If I recall an early post, I thought we'd be lucky to finish at .500.  Unless we really drop off, particularly after March 8th, that shouldn't happen.

 

But...there's the deeper question, and I am torn on it.  Are we getting a Tortorella-driven head fake that leads us to believe a rebuild is taking place?  Or are we building a foundational core of young players who will take us to elite (top 8 to 10) in the league within 2-3 years?  All too often we've felt we're at that point, but discovered we were a year or two away from being a year or two away...blah, blah.  I look at goaltending and say we're set.  D may be taking shape, and the Drysdale acquisition may really help.  But our forward corps is different.  Meanwhile, we don't have a real game changer, and as I've said before, if MM shows up, I will consider it icing on the cake.  When you look at standings in the Metro, it's a reminder that the distance between very good to excellent isn't much.   

 

One thing is clear--this management is candid and playing the long game.  Their handling of the Gauthier gig says a lot about their brains and commitment.  

 

Thoughts?

Just a note. You guys are ahead of a Crosby-Malkin led Pittsburgh Penguins team. (Who, by the way, don't want to make the playoffs!)

[RonJeremy]

We have a solid team that plays hard every night , and we are in just about every game. Alot of this is the Torts factor, he’s like Keenan where he gets the most out of the players, that other coaches would not be able to do. I do think there are some players that are playing way over their heads and will eventually come back down, Seeler and Walker being prime examples.  These guys are close to thirty and pending UFAs ,and like most players in a contract year , they are having career years. I have seen this many times, once a nice big new contract is signed they return to the mediocrity they always were. I hope we are not fooled by this and re-sign either of them. Keep the rebuild going and trade them at the deadline. I still think we have a long way to go and are weak in several key areas ,especially center , until we have two legit young centers we will not be contenders, I think we could also use a  big two way dman as well. 

[notfondajane]

14 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

We have a solid team that plays hard every night , and we are in just about every game. Alot of this is the Torts factor, he’s like Keenan where he gets the most out of the players, that other coaches would not be able to do. I do think there are some players that are playing way over their heads and will eventually come back down, Seeler and Walker being prime examples.  These guys are close to thirty and pending UFAs ,and like most players in a contract year , they are having career years. I have seen this many times, once a nice big new contract is signed they return to the mediocrity they always were. I hope we are not fooled by this and re-sign either of them. Keep the rebuild going and trade them at the deadline. I still think we have a long way to go and are weak in several key areas ,especially center , until we have two legit young centers we will not be contenders, I think we could also use a  big two way dman as well. 

This maybe true. You are still ahead of a Crosby-Malkin led Penguins team! 

[Howie58]

1 hour ago, notfondajane said:

This maybe true. You are still ahead of a Crosby-Malkin led Penguins team! 

Candidly, I thought this was the year we saw decline in Pitt. The Karlson signing surprised me---Does Dubas really think that core can go on forever?

[notfondajane]

3 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Candidly, I thought this was the year we saw decline in Pitt. The Karlson signing surprised me---Does Dubas really think that core can go on forever?

I'm not sure on that. I think in 2026 draft the Pens have 9 picks as of now. (Hopefully they will keep them.)they should have started that a few years back.  

I heard that Guentzel is to go to Vancouver for a 1st rounder, a prospect and a NHL ready player. It's a rumor. 

[Howie58]

48 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

I'm not sure on that. I think in 2026 draft the Pens have 9 picks as of now. (Hopefully they will keep them.)they should have started that a few years back.  

I heard that Guentzel is to go to Vancouver for a 1st rounder, a prospect and a NHL ready player. It's a rumor. 

Thanks for the info.  I was under the impression that Pitt's draft cupboard was challenged. 

[mojo1917]

This team is fun to watch and easy to like.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the quality of this team.

It's well established I think forced, prolonged losing is for losers.

I love that this team will fight for every inch of ice, or anyone, anywhere, anytime for each other.

I think John Tortorella has done a fantastic job with most of the young players on the team. I think Joel Farabee, Owen Tippett, Noah Cates, and Cam York (young pros) have benefited greatly from Fonzie's message.

I'm starting to think he's getting through to Morgan Frost, or that a detent has been established, because finally that kid is finding his game at the NHL level.

I'd also add that the Defense corps is miles better than it was 3 years ago. Risto is serviceable, Seeler is effective in his role, Walker rebounding from his injury nicely, Sanhiem playing big minutes and is playing them well and York gets better every time I watch. That's a result of Shaw and Fonzie.  Imagine if those guys had gotten to Provorov before his mind closed....

 

It is my hope that the Danny Jonesy® continue to build the team in the same manor they've started. 

I hear the right words coming from their pie-holes whenever they speak about rebuilding the "right way" so they can "compete for championships for a long time".

If that goal can be achieved without forcing good young players to get their asses kicked on the nightly, then I am all for it.

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by mojo1917

[GratefulFlyers]

14 hours ago, Howie58 said:

So I am asking if we are seeing the beginning of the New Era of Orange that takes us several levels higher in a year or two, or is this sort of solid move out of the post-AV funk, but not part of a strong and long move forward?

 

I guess we'll get at least a partial answer at the TD. It's "bigger" than ever for the Flyers this year. If they're sellers they know they risk missing the POs. if Walker and Seeler are traded the D takes a big hit. Maybe they make it anyway but it's a risk I hope (and expect) they'll take.

 

There's a lot more but you (and everyone here) already knows the deal. Basically it comes down to this: if the Flyers are sellers the rebuild is still a priority. If not...well I'd rather not think about that.

[hmc687]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:40 PM, Howie58 said:

Grateful:

 

I think Torts is an acknowledged master at extracting a lot from a talent base, particularly in CBJ, though burnout sets in:

https://thehockeywriters.com/flyers-following-path-tortorellas-successful-history/

 

Coaching aside--and I laud what he's done with this team--do we think the youngins we have on board will stick and grow, or will be see a multi-year churn to grow talent that may take time to nurture.  As I've said before, I think of the 2008 and 2010 runs as flukes rather than the result of a core that could deliver good play for a stretch.  Heck, Homer all but demolished the 2010 squad pretty quickly.  So I am asking if we are seeing the beginning of the New Era of Orange that takes us several levels higher in a year or two, or is this sort of solid move out of the post-AV funk, but not part of a strong and long move forward?

 

 

Happens to every coach...AV, Lavi, Berube, Hitchcock, and Torts.  Every good coach has that escalation and improvement until they plateau.  To me its like working out and lifting...a program is successful and gets results but inevitably will plateau.

 

Gotta do that p90x muscle confusion stuff

[OccamsRazor]

nothing like a ringing endorsement from your coach...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

But he does have some use...his delivery could use some polish but the message must be received.

 

 

[flyerdog]

so....

 

has Ersson earned the #1 spot, or is it still Carter's ? 

 

their save % and GAA are very close but Sam has 2 more SOs 

[GratefulFlyers]

I doubt any coach would pull his goalie after 65mins. but there’s no denying Ersson is a stone cold killer in the SO. He’s let in 2 goals so far one to Oshie the best in the NHL history and the other to Gaudreau who’s got good SO numbers too I believe. 
 

As far as #1 or 1A or whatever they want to call it…I hope they leave well enough alone. 

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, flyerdog said:

so....

 

has Ersson earned the #1 spot, or is it still Carter's ? 

 

their save % and GAA are very close but Sam has 2 more SOs 

I think until Carter Hart's play falls off. The answer is no.

Carter has played just as well and done it for a little longer than Sam.

To me it's still Carter's net.

He hasn't lost it.

This is a good "problem" to have.