Anyone Miss JVR?

[flyercanuck]

JVR has been out for half the season. He has played a fairly vanilla game (aside from his performance last postseason and a handful of shifts in a handful of games) for the first 3 years of his career. He has shown us a taste of what he's capable of when he puts his mind to it, but for the most part, at least IMO, he leaves a lot to be desired. The guy has skill, speed and size. He just doesn't seem to have a hockey brain. What I mean is, he doesn't seem to go hard very often. Doesn't want to get dirty.

So over the last half of the season, have you missed JVR from the team? Giroux has stepped up big time. Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Jagr, Talbot have all done all you could ask for and more. Schenn is a work in progress (and I know JVR is too) that seems to be coming around. And Schenn certainly doesn't lack in effort. Wellwood is really catching my eye as a guy I'd thought would take longer to be NHL ready, and Rinaldo has been neutered in a good way. Briere we all hope is going to break out in the playoffs, but his best days are likely behind him.

JVR spent the first half of the season as he's spent most of his career. For most of his shifts, you didn't even know he was on the ice. He's been hurt but honestly, I don't see much difference in his game when he's NOT playing. I know this guy has a huge upside.(he was on pace to increase his point total yet again) I know if we traded him, he may just reach it. But looking at the roster we have right now, with all those young guys, does this make JVR expendable before that 6 year contract kicks in? (of course this may not look good on Holmgren, but if it improves the team...) Or do you think it ends up being a worthwhile contract? He's still got a lot of value as a 2nd overall pick. Alone, or in a package he could bring in a valuable asset. Or is he worth more just to keep? Cause honestly, I'm not missing this guy one bit at this point, and I've never really wanted to trade him before. But with all the offence this team has, if we could package him with a Dman for a better one, I'm in.

Of course all this would change if healthy JVR is also angry JVR.

[AndyS]

Hopefully he will have a huge playoffs for the Flyers.

I'm open to trading him, but only if we get a lot in return.

I would still like Luke Schenn, but we'd need more than him in return. Schenn & a 1st? Done.

[sekkes85]

Not sure anyone can honestly say that they have missed JVR this season. That being said there are multiple players having career years which has made any offensive production he may have brought to the table seem a lot less important. That being said, having a big body chip in 20 goals wouldn't hurt either. He still has so much potential in him and is able to produce to a certain degree at this point in his career making him very valuable and attractive to other teams. Only way I'm trading him is for a dman in a similar situation.

[flyercanuck]

@AndyS

Ya, I'd want a good return. Schenn may turn into a good player on another team. But that's certainly not a straight up trade. And my guess is Burke is done trading 1sts away...or at least he should be.

[flyercanuck]

@sekkes85

Is JVRs contract as a 20 goal scorer worth $4.25 per? Cause he's not doing the other "intangibles" that would make it worth that, IMO. I'd want more than 20 out of him. I think he can deliver, if he wants to. But I agree, a quality Dman has more value for this team.

[Cheesesteak]

I hope he was only playing hurt this season and I will give him a mulligan but he BETTER show us something more next season or I may have to break out the B word...BUST. BUT, I don't want another Versteeg situation where player is hurt, we ship him out, and he plays much better after healing. I want JVR to do well as a Flyer as much as anyone and think it would be incredible if you could add a motivated JVR to the cast we already have playing.

[fishbulb]

Nope! Don't miss the big flake at all.

He simply doesn't 'get it'... look at players like Read. Half the talent and size that JVR has, but he "Gets" hockey... he knows what it takes

to succeed. He knows the game and has a passion to be his best. JVR is the complete opposite.

Can he be a consistent 25-30 goal guy?... he's got the skills... but frankly, I couldn't care less about him.

[flyerrod]

I hope they have taken the initiative to do the surgery and fix his groin impingement too. I mean, if you are going to be out 6 to 8 weeks, why not fix it now since he is already sidelined with the foot injury. I think that has been a big reason why he has not looked like he is putting forth the effort he is capable of. I would still be happy to trade him for a d-man like Jack Johnson only because the Flyers are very deep in Centers and Forwards. On another note, Wellwood's speed is ridiculous. He may not be big, but there is no one on the ice that can catch him.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Who?

[radoran]

@sekkes85

Is JVRs contract as a 20 goal scorer worth $4.25 per? Cause he's not doing the other "intangibles" that would make it worth that, IMO. I'd want more than 20 out of him. I think he can deliver, if he wants to. But I agree, a quality Dman has more value for this team.

Hartnell had never scored more than 25 goals when he got his contract at almost the same price. He's hit 30 goals twice under that contract.

That said, I'd trade JVR - like any other player - for the right deal.

[bryanc]

Half the talent and size that JVR has, but he "Gets" hockey... he knows what it takes

to succeed. He knows the game and has a passion to be his best. JVR is the complete opposite.

I'm not quite sure how you can reach this type of conclusion on van Riemsdyk. JVR had a pretty good season last year, his second as a full-time pro with the Flyers. He upped his goal total to 21 from 15, but perhaps more importantly he went from a -1 in 78 games in 09-10 to +15 in 75 games in 10-11, which shows he's adapting to playing NHL level defense.

Matt Read has three+ years of age on van Riemsdyk, and those three years are usually when a young player really develops (22-25).

When Gagne was 21-22, he two great seasons, going from 27 to 33 goals. Then he had a season marred by injury where he only played half the season and scored 9 goals.

I think the jury is still out on JVR, especially since the injuries have taken a toll on him this year. He's ahd a lower body injury, an upper body one, a concussion, and now the break.

I think the jury is still out, but there is a lot of potential here. besides, you wouldn't get much in a trade for him right now (which is one of the reasons why so many teams were interested in him).

[bryanc]

Hartnell had never scored more than 25 goals when he got his contract at almost the same price. He's hit 30 goals twice under that contract.

That said, I'd trade JVR - like any other player - for the right deal.

Well, yeah -- I'd trade just about any player for the "right deal."

[radoran]

Well, yeah -- I'd trade just about any player for the "right deal."

I think the point here is that the Flyers - who will be paying JVR an "actual" salary of $2.5M next season and won't pay more than $4M until 14-15 - believe that they will be "overpaying" at the start of JVR's contract (cap-wise) so they will have a good value at the end, when he tops out at $5M per in the last two years of the deal.

Only time will tell if they are right, but that strategy does seem to have paid some dividends with Hartnell (who is only taking home $3.7M this season and will make $3.2M next).

The Flyers have had the luxury of depth to deal with injuries to their top forwards and JVR is part of that depth.

[canoli]

Can he be a consistent 25-30 goal guy?... he's got the skills... but frankly, I couldn't care less about him.

that's the way I feel too, he's the definition of "expendable." Look at the Flyers' roster, look at all the offense and the contributions from rookies, remind yourself that JVR is, at his best, a 1-way player and imho we're wasting a roster spot on an invisible man. Let him go and if he succeeds on another team god bless him.

[krasy]

I miss JVR, Their line with Schenn and Simmons started to click and i really liked how the played together. In my book that was the second best Flyers line this year.

I will be disappointed to see him traded unless we dont get Corey Perry or Weber in return.

[AndyS]

I will be disappointed to see him traded unless we dont get Corey Perry or Weber in return.

Huh?!?

Um, if he were THAT good, we wouldn't be trading him, right?

[The Quigster]

The old "hit him while he's down" question,does any body miss Pronger? Who on this team isn't expendable? What happened to the league MVP? What overpaid Flyer who produces every third year,should go while his stock is hot? The list goes on and on depending on who is writing it.

[krasy]

Huh?!?

Um, if he were THAT good, we wouldn't be trading him, right?

Will disagree with you. Pronger was good when Duck traded for him, Brad Richards was good when Tampa shipped him. My point is no one is safe. Last year with Richards and Carter is proof. A lot good player was traded in their prime.

[AndyS]

Will disagree with you. Pronger was good when Duck traded for him, Brad Richards was good when Tampa shipped him. My point is no one is safe. Last year with Richards and Carter is proof. A lot good player was traded in their prime.

I think you're missing the point here.

In the trade that you are suggesting, we would have to send Anaheim a lot more than JvR.

[krasy]

I never said player for a player trade, did I?

But OK - i will be disappointed if JVR is part of deal that did not bring Perry or Weber to the Flyers.

[Vanflyer]

JVR has been out for half the season. He has played a fairly vanilla game (aside from his performance last postseason and a handful of shifts in a handful of games) for the first 3 years of his career. He has shown us a taste of what he's capable of when he puts his mind to it, but for the most part, at least IMO, he leaves a lot to be desired. The guy has skill, speed and size. He just doesn't seem to have a hockey brain. What I mean is, he doesn't seem to go hard very often. Doesn't want to get dirty.

So over the last half of the season, have you missed JVR from the team? Giroux has stepped up big time. Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Jagr, Talbot have all done all you could ask for and more. Schenn is a work in progress (and I know JVR is too) that seems to be coming around. And Schenn certainly doesn't lack in effort. Wellwood is really catching my eye as a guy I'd thought would take longer to be NHL ready, and Rinaldo has been neutered in a good way. Briere we all hope is going to break out in the playoffs, but his best days are likely behind him.

JVR spent the first half of the season as he's spent most of his career. For most of his shifts, you didn't even know he was on the ice. He's been hurt but honestly, I don't see much difference in his game when he's NOT playing. I know this guy has a huge upside.(he was on pace to increase his point total yet again) I know if we traded him, he may just reach it. But looking at the roster we have right now, with all those young guys, does this make JVR expendable before that 6 year contract kicks in? (of course this may not look good on Holmgren, but if it improves the team...) Or do you think it ends up being a worthwhile contract? He's still got a lot of value as a 2nd overall pick. Alone, or in a package he could bring in a valuable asset. Or is he worth more just to keep? Cause honestly, I'm not missing this guy one bit at this point, and I've never really wanted to trade him before. But with all the offence this team has, if we could package him with a Dman for a better one, I'm in.

Of course all this would change if healthy JVR is also angry JVR.

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Here is the deal (in my view). The 2007 draft class was a crap shoot.

#1- Kane (RW)- Superstar early, mediocre now.

#2- JVR (LW)- Progressively better, but a bust this year due to injuries and still apathetic too often on the ice.

#3- Turris ©- Traded and still trying to find how to play in the NHL.

#4- Hickey (D)- Young and learning, but has not played in the NHL yet.

#5- Azner (D)- Depending on your team needs, might be the best pick of the top 10 aside from #1 (Kane)

#6- Gagner ©- Great over the red line, but a -40 thus far (but much improved this year).

#7- Voracek (RW)- Size and effort. Needs to work on his shooting.

#8- Hamill- © - Still trying to bust the Bruins lineup.

#9- Couture © - The sleeper of the top 10 and some think worth more than Kane (RW v. C)

#10- Ellerby (D)- Young kid still learning D. BIG. Has not yet solidified permanent NHL spot yet.

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In that vain, JVR is fine. In the context to your post, I would trade JVR for a top 8 draft pick this year in a heart beat (there are currently 7 dmen in the top 10). My goal is defensemen. So in that vain, there are many more in the top 50. Perhaps the largest selection in the last 10 years.

[Phlyer1]

I don't miss JVR but I do miss our first line. Maybe an APB will help to find them?

[doom88]

I don't miss him, but I also hope he lights it up when returning healthy.

[sarsippius]

"Anyone miss JVR"

Yeah, I miss him saying dumb **** like the home "fans need to be quiet" when they were getting on the goaltender who was sh*tting the crease nightly.

[AndyS]

JVR has been out for half the season. He has played a fairly vanilla game (aside from his performance last postseason and a handful of shifts in a handful of games) for the first 3 years of his career. He has shown us a taste of what he's capable of when he puts his mind to it, but for the most part, at least IMO, he leaves a lot to be desired. The guy has skill, speed and size. He just doesn't seem to have a hockey brain. What I mean is, he doesn't seem to go hard very often. Doesn't want to get dirty.

So over the last half of the season, have you missed JVR from the team? Giroux has stepped up big time. Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, Read, Hartnell, Jagr, Talbot have all done all you could ask for and more. Schenn is a work in progress (and I know JVR is too) that seems to be coming around. And Schenn certainly doesn't lack in effort. Wellwood is really catching my eye as a guy I'd thought would take longer to be NHL ready, and Rinaldo has been neutered in a good way. Briere we all hope is going to break out in the playoffs, but his best days are likely behind him.

JVR spent the first half of the season as he's spent most of his career. For most of his shifts, you didn't even know he was on the ice. He's been hurt but honestly, I don't see much difference in his game when he's NOT playing. I know this guy has a huge upside.(he was on pace to increase his point total yet again) I know if we traded him, he may just reach it. But looking at the roster we have right now, with all those young guys, does this make JVR expendable before that 6 year contract kicks in? (of course this may not look good on Holmgren, but if it improves the team...) Or do you think it ends up being a worthwhile contract? He's still got a lot of value as a 2nd overall pick. Alone, or in a package he could bring in a valuable asset. Or is he worth more just to keep? Cause honestly, I'm not missing this guy one bit at this point, and I've never really wanted to trade him before. But with all the offence this team has, if we could package him with a Dman for a better one, I'm in.

Of course all this would change if healthy JVR is also angry JVR.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here is the deal (in my view). The 2007 draft class was a crap shoot.

#1- Kane (RW)- Superstar early, mediocre now.

#2- JVR (LW)- Progressively better, but a bust this year due to injuries and still apathetic too often on the ice.

#3- Turris ©- Traded and still trying to find how to play in the NHL.

#4- Hickey (D)- Young and learning, but has not played in the NHL yet.

#5- Azner (D)- Depending on your team needs, might be the best pick of the top 10 aside from #1 (Kane)

#6- Gagner ©- Great over the red line, but a -40 thus far (but much improved this year).

#7- Voracek (RW)- Size and effort. Needs to work on his shooting.

#8- Hamill- © - Still trying to bust the Bruins lineup.

#9- Couture © - The sleeper of the top 10 and some think worth more than Kane (RW v. C)

#10- Ellerby (D)- Young kid still learning D. BIG. Has not yet solidified permanent NHL spot yet.

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In that vain, JVR is fine. In the context to your post, I would trade JVR for a top 8 draft pick this year in a heart beat (there are currently 7 dmen in the top 10). My goal is defensemen. So in that vain, there are many more in the top 50. Perhaps the largest selection in the last 10 years.

I didn't realize that Voracek was in the same draft as JvR.

Now I REALLY think that JvR needs to pick it up.