FLYERS SIGN WEBER TO MASSIVE OFFER SHEET

[Polaris922]

@JackStraw @

Well stated by both of you. I think you may have changed my perspective on where he stands, though I already thought of him as the best all around d-man. I think I just place value on offensive minded d-men. Always been a big fan of a guy who plays the blue line that has great potential to score. You guys win though, I'll go with you on this.

I still consider him the more defensive minded of him and Suter though. I watched a lot of Preds games because of those two specifically, and perhaps I only saw games where what I was watching matched what I already thought, I dunno. Suter was always the more gifted offensive talent in my eyes, while Weber was the daunting punisher who cleared the crease and made forwards balk at the idea of running the boards.

[jkearse123]

Did he ever break the boards with a shot, though?

No. Cut him. Trade him. Fire Stevens!

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw @

Well stated by both of you. I think you may have changed my perspective on where he stands, though I already thought of him as the best all around d-man. I think I just place value on offensive minded d-men. Always been a big fan of a guy who plays the blue line that has great potential to score. You guys win though, I'll go with you on this.

I still consider him the more defensive minded of him and Suter though. I watched a lot of Preds games because of those two specifically, and perhaps I only saw games where what I was watching matched what I already thought, I dunno. Suter was always the more gifted offensive talent in my eyes, while Weber was the daunting punisher who cleared the crease and made forwards balk at the idea of running the boards.

While I think that overall Weber is significantly better than Suter, bottom line is that both are excellent at both ends. If one has an edge in one aspect of the game it's more a matter of degree rather than a fundamental difference in their skill sets (except that Weber is much more physical and has a much bigger shot). On July 1st I did not want the Flyers to pay the price for Suter, I wanted them to hang on to Carle instead. But Weber is a different story. He's a legitimate game changer imo.

[Polaris922]

While I think that overall Weber is significantly better than Suter, bottom line is that both are excellent at both ends. If one has an edge in one aspect of the game it's more a matter of degree rather than a fundamental difference in their skill sets (except that Weber is much more physical and has a much bigger shot). On July 1st I did not want the Flyers to pay the price for Suter, I wanted them to hang on to Carle instead. But Weber is a different story. He's a legitimate game changer imo.

I would want Weber over Suter too... either way it's mad money in my eyes. I would love to have Weber next to Letang but even if it were possible Shero stated he wouldn't be interested in Weber at that price. I was shocked they went after Suter!

[JackStraw]

No question it's crazy money. But Weber is basically exactly what the Flyers need most. And if Suter is worth $7.5 million a year (which I don't think he is but my opinion doesn't count) then Weber is definitely worth $7.8.

[AndyS]

I still consider him the more defensive minded of him and Suter though. I watched a lot of Preds games because of those two specifically, and perhaps I only saw games where what I was watching matched what I already thought, I dunno. Suter was always the more gifted offensive talent in my eyes, while Weber was the daunting punisher who cleared the crease and made forwards balk at the idea of running the boards.

That's why he's a perfect fit for the Flyers.

And his offensive numbers are pretty good too. He has a cannon of a shot from the point too.

[AndyS]

What makes you so sure? Playes go where the money is. If some other team offers him twice as much as Phoenix is willing to pay, he would be a fool not to take the advantage.

Maybe seeing the Weber signing in Philly might persuade him to leave the desert.

[canoli]

But Weber is basically exactly what the Flyers need most.

What the Flyers need most is a take-back on that stupid Bryzgalov deal.

I love this news, I hope it comes true and Weber plays the next 10 years in Philly. But unless there's some remarkable (tremendous) turnaround in Bryzgalov's game the Flyers aren't any closer to the Cup with Weber than without him. imho.

[Polaris922]

I'm gonna call it here... like many others have... Nashville matches. Four first round picks of 20+ aren't a fair return for Weber. The more I read and listen to analysis... sorry fellas.. They match him, then after the season look for possible trades perhaps... I'm seeing a lot of opinions saying Weber doesn't necessarily want out, he just wants what's fair market value considering what some other defensemen are getting. If I'm Nashville, I match and trade next season at the WORST.

[Phillygrump]

They might, but its going to be a very tough task for them to match and even if they do it could handcuff the organization for 5 years. The way the contract is structured they will have difficulty putting a solid team on the ice to go along with the Weber and Rinne contracts.

[The_Kaptan]

The problem is the money the Preds are gonna have to spend just to keep him for one year. Sure, they can trade him afterwards, but they're going to be out 27 million dollars for a one year rental. Yeah, they'll get a lot in return, but the question is would management want to spend that kind of money for a guy they won't hang on to? This is why I think Weber will be a Flyer and the Flyers are going to send some players Nashville's way. If the Preds are only going to get picks, they'll sign the offer sheet (if they don't just decide to do that outright and keep him despite the money) but at the end of the day the best thing for the organization would be to pry away a couple quality players and a couple picks that'll keep the team financially solvent and give their fans SOMETHING to say that they didn't get entirely shafted in this deal.

[Polaris922]

@Phillygrump

@The_Kaptan

If they get a couple quality players back I could see them letting him go. Depends on what your GM has arranged. If its just draft picks though Nashville would be crazy not to match. I think it would sink the franchise more than spending the money. Plus I'd do it just to spite Holmgren if I were him for the undermining offer sheet. IF... And that's a big IF this wasn't all prearranged by the two!

Edited July 20, 2012 by Polaris922

[LegionOfDoom]

All these posts are speckled with speculation.

Lets put down the spatula of spatial thinking of sports contracts

and speak about our strengths at some point.

Shea sure sounds like someone serious about starting a new season somewhere else.

Since we cant say for sure, it sure sounds somewhat certain that he saw the winning scenario

we paint in our sports town. He liked what he saw. Our strength and our stance in our commitment to seriously win it all.

This will silence all the speculators........sssssssssssssssss!

[hf101]

What makes you so sure? Playes go where the money is. If some other team offers him twice as much as Phoenix is willing to pay, he would be a fool not to take the advantage.

Well I don't think other teams will be offering twice of what Phoenix offers first of all. If Phoenix offers 6M I don't see a team like Pittsburgh or Detroit offering 12M. But yeah other teams may offer more money than Phoenix, but Doan has all ready stated that he would like to stay in Phoenix as long as the Coyotes are staying there too. Players do stay or choose a team for reasons other than money. ie, Parise was offered more money with the Flyers and chose to play in Minnesota where he and Suter could play together.

[Dynamo 47]

I was right there with you. "Wow!" followed by "it would be nice but....". Nashville almost needs to match to hit the salaryfloor. Plus, with a hit just over $7,000,000 I think Homer almost made the offer too easy for Nashville to match. The annual hit is less than Suter! That's mind boggling.

I initially thought that too (about matching) but after reading how it's structured I am more encouraged than discouraged. The first two years are the key and if Nashville matched the payout to Weber would be something like 16% of the franchise value or something like that. Not to mention Weber might tell Nashville that if they match it fine, but he will demand a trade next year and if not will sit out. So they can let him go, get four 1st round picks or match it, has a pissed off player who will be gone the following year one way or another.

I truly hope that is the case as I have not been as excited about a pending acquisition since Lindros.

[Podein25]

my opinion doesn't count

Not true. It counts, we value it, and you're welcome to it. But you're still full of **** all the same.

[BearOnIce]

@BearOnIce The great thing is Weber will continue to be in his prime for the next 5-8 years...sometime during that timeframe, our young stars will mature fully....G, Voras, Couts, Schenn, hell even Scott Laughton might mature before Weber is out of his prime. That's a PRETTY BIG WINDOW>>>LOL!. That's what makes this move so enticing, Weber age and how it applies to the Flyers plans/window.

Let m correct what i said. -4 Cups in next 5-8 years

[BearOnIce]

@BearOnIce The great thing is Weber will continue to be in his prime for the next 5-8 years...sometime during that timeframe, our young stars will mature fully....G, Voras, Couts, Schenn, hell even Scott Laughton might mature before Weber is out of his prime. That's a PRETTY BIG WINDOW>>>LOL!. That's what makes this move so enticing, Weber age and how it applies to the Flyers plans/window.

Damn sticky buttons.. Ok, let me correct what I said, 3-4 Cups in next 5-8 years, with Weber and the young guys that hopefully we keep. There we go...

[OzFlyer]

I just love how fans of other teams are saying "a typical Flyers move". It's nice to be a fan of a team with balls!

[Bakanekimiwa]

I'm gonna call it here... like many others have... Nashville matches. Four first round picks of 20+ aren't a fair return for Weber. The more I read and listen to analysis... sorry fellas.. They match him, then after the season look for possible trades perhaps... I'm seeing a lot of opinions saying Weber doesn't necessarily want out, he just wants what's fair market value considering what some other defensemen are getting. If I'm Nashville, I match and trade next season at the WORST.

i think nashville's knee jerk reaction would certainly be to do whatever it takes to keep him. stick it to the big bad flyers and show the hockey universe they mean business. then some time passes. they have a meeting this morning to review it. and that's when they really put the pen to paper and think about the big picture.

this is a breakup. this is a guy who has moved on. he was swooned by another lady and he likes what he sees. do you *really* think nashville spends the necessary $27m for ONE YEAR of shea weber? just to trade him the following year?

i'd say the chances of nashville matching are pretty slim at this point. and if they do... it's probably a huge mistake for their franchise. well, it's a huge mistake for them either way because they let it get to this point. they should have locked him down last year. that was the time to show they had a commitment to winning.

now... it's too late. shea will become a flyer and his long term deal means that cindy is going to have a real tough go of it over the next 10-15 years.

[Polaris922]

i think nashville's knee jerk reaction would certainly be to do whatever it takes to keep him. stick it to the big bad flyers and show the hockey universe they mean business. then some time passes. they have a meeting this morning to review it. and that's when they really put the pen to paper and think about the big picture.

this is a breakup. this is a guy who has moved on. he was swooned by another lady and he likes what he sees. do you *really* think nashville spends the necessary $27m for ONE YEAR of shea weber? just to trade him the following year?

i'd say the chances of nashville matching are pretty slim at this point. and if they do... it's probably a huge mistake for their franchise. well, it's a huge mistake for them either way because they let it get to this point. they should have locked him down last year. that was the time to show they had a commitment to winning.

now... it's too late. shea will become a flyer and his long term deal means that cindy is going to have a real tough go of it over the next 10-15 years.

The other scenario I see if Poile telling Holmgren that he'll match it unless the Schenn's, Voracek, and a first pick come back his way. He CAN choose to use matching as a bargaining chip. Holmgren foced his hand some here, no doubt, but Poile can either use it to lock up Weber long term cheaper than he might have been able to next year, or use the threat of doing it to get good returns instead of two picks in the low 20's or so.

[Podein25]

It looks more and more like not matching and trading back some of the picks for player(s). That likely means Voracek is one of them. I can't see Homer trading either Cooter or Schenn at this point - he's already said no to that, which lead to the offer sheet strategy. Mayeb a guy like Gus could be gone too, which would be too bad, but....

[fanaticV3.0]

As long as the player is under 35 and is willing to reitre before the end of the contract, you're all good. That's why these are all so ridiculously front-loaded.

How this isn't blatant "circumvention" I am not sure. Perhaps there will be penalties on teams if players in these deals start to bail early. But that's another story for another day.

Good to see you, BTW.

I do agree, but I'm not sure the teams should be the only one to be penalized. If a guy signs a deal and can't live up to it, why shouldn't the team be able to back out?

If there is a way out of these things, great. I'm still not crazy about them because I think it makes them nearly impossible to trade, but at least you can back out of it.

You too. Are you still out of the area? Didn't you move or something? I vaguely remember that before Brelic banned me from PTPITN.

[fanaticV3.0]

ok.. why you being a d o u c h e nozzle now?

Because it comes naturally and I didn't even realize I was. I'm sorry that me pointing out that you useing Lidstrom as your measuring stick was a little weak, but that's just the way it is.

[fanaticV3.0]

I would assume neither wanted to retire. From the player's POV, why not stay on LTIR and get paid. I think in Hatcher's case it was just one year, in Rathje's it was several.

See, now that was my original point. We had to pay them, right? Can't the same thing happen with all these 10+ year deals people are signing lately? Aren't teams going to be paying for guys who can't hack it anymore, but still want the steady paycheck?