Did someone start a Bobby Ryan thread?

[Orangecat]

If we didn't rid ourselves of JVR and Jagr, maybe Bobby Ryan (and other potential trade targets) wouldn't be brought up. I know it's a short season with limited preparation, but G needs a strong line mate that will help take some attention off of him. JVR for Eldest Schenn looks like a laugh of a trade.

Also, I don't see why Couturier is COMPLETELY off limits in a trade request. I think the kid will be a very good player, but if the return is right he should not be off limits.

My opinions are probably shared by an extreme minority...so let the attacks begin.

[Polaris922]

If we didn't rid ourselves of JVR and Jagr, maybe Bobby Ryan (and other potential trade targets) wouldn't be brought up. I know it's a short season with limited preparation, but G needs a strong line mate that will help take some attention off of him. JVR for Eldest Schenn looks like a laugh of a trade.

Also, I don't see why Couturier is COMPLETELY off limits in a trade request. I think the kid will be a very good player, but if the return is right he should not be off limits.

My opinions are probably shared by an extreme minority...so let the attacks begin.

I guess it comes down to... Do you want to try for the push now at the cost of the future? I'd take Ryan over Couturier myself, but many of your Flyers faithful feel differently.

[Philly29]

]Why do we half to trade our young guys all the time? I swear every time we get some talent we half to trade him off for the funniest reasons with you people...You think the JVR trade was stupid so instead of learning from the mistakes you want to trade Coots...Why?... Why can't people be patient...????

If I am not mistaken your guys hero Bobby Ryan took some time to get to the player he is now. AND I seriously doubt he could do to Malkin/Crosby what Cooter did to them in his rookie season in the PLAYOFFS.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Philly29

[CoachX]

Did I miss something? Is there unrest regarding the move of JVR?

If so, WTF is that about?

[Philly29]

Did I miss something? Is there unrest regarding the move of JVR?

If so, WTF is that about?

I have no idea... Some people think it was a mistake so they want to do the same thing again with another player who actually shows promise...

[CoachX]

wow...thats unsettling. The list of young players the Flyers have let go is staggering. Forum memebers have gone on and on for years about how trades have haunted this franchise and the core should be kept intact, with eyes on the future. JVR had a three seasons to solidify himself in this lineup and the frnachise felt he would not live up to expectations. Now 8 games in he is "the one that got away"?

WOW!

The fickleness of this forum has reached an all time high

[radoran]

A "Ryan to the Flyers?" thread is pretty much started every other week. Since he was drafted.0

If I am not mistaken your guys hero Bobby Ryan took some time to get to the player he is now. AND I seriously doubt he could do to Malkin/Crosby what Cooter did to them in his rookie season in the PLAYOFFS.

Ryan scored 31 goals in 64 games in his first "full" season in the NHL and hasn't scored less than 30 in a season since, missing one game in three years.

JVR was a 20 goal scorer in his second year in the league and had 11 in 43 last year (about the same pace).

Ryan is simply a proven 30-35 goal scorer from the drop. JVR is still a potential one.

I'd trade Couturier for the right deal. I believe you have to trade anyone for the right deal. I also believe sometimes the best deal - the right deal - is the deal you don't make. The Flyers will never learn that lesson with the current organization*.

It's hard to evalute trades weeks and months after they happened. The effect can be years in the making - and in recovery from.

The Flyers are a team that over a period of four seasons took assets Vaclav Prospal and the pick that was Danny Briere and turned them into Adam Burt in their pursuit of high draft pick junior players who "needed a change of scenery" to excel in the NHL like Pat Falloon and Alexandre Daigle.

I said this on the Bernier thread, but if JVR turns into a perrennial 30-35 goal scorer then the trade looks Markov/Williams bad unless Schenn develops into a true first line defenseman instead of the 3/4 he probably is. It's not Sharp bad, but it's certainly verging on Walker/Gagne...

* term used loosely

[Philly29]

A "Ryan to the Flyers?" thread is pretty much started every other week. Since he was drafted.0

Ryan scored 31 goals in 64 games in his first "full" season in the NHL and hasn't scored less than 30 in a season since, missing one game in three years.

JVR was a 20 goal scorer in his second year in the league and had 11 in 43 last year (about the same pace).

Ryan is simply a proven 30-35 goal scorer from the drop. JVR is still a potential one.

I'd trade Couturier for the right deal. I believe you have to trade anyone for the right deal. I also believe sometimes the best deal - the right deal - is the deal you don't make. The Flyers will never learn that lesson with the current organization*.

It's hard to evalute trades weeks and months after they happened. The effect can be years in the making - and in recovery from.

The Flyers are a team that over a period of four seasons took assets Vaclav Prospal and the pick that was Danny Briere and turned them into Adam Burt in their pursuit of high draft pick junior players who "needed a change of scenery" to excel in the NHL like Pat Falloon and Alexandre Daigle.

I said this on the Bernier thread, but if JVR turns into a perrennial 30-35 goal scorer then the trade looks Markov/Williams bad unless Schenn develops into a true first line defenseman instead of the 3/4 he probably is. It's not Sharp bad, but it's certainly verging on Walker/Gagne...

* term used loosely

I am not defending JVR by any means. I am defending Coots who is in the beginning of a shortened sophomore season.

[hf101]

@Orangecat

Yes, and the content was merged here

[radoran]

I am not defending JVR by any means. I am defending Coots who is in the beginning of a shortened sophomore season.

I like Couturier a lot. But, again, you have to be willing to trade players for the right deal. I don't know that such a deal exists for Couturier right now, but it might.

To an extent, I am defending JVR. As yo note, Flyers all too often cut and run with players - especially who don't immediately set the world on fire when they are placed in a 3/4 line role because the Flyers "have to play" high salary guys in the Top Six. JVR was a 20-goal scorer in his second year in the league. That's not chopped liver.

He was brutally inconsistent and didn't capitalize on the showing he made in playoffs on the ice (he did with the contract). That's not to say that he won't.

[pensuck]

From what I've seen Schenn has looked very good so far. Yes he had 1 bad turnover in the caps game. Overall he's looked very strong. He's looked much better than Coburn, gervais, lilja, foster. On this team that makes him a top 1st or 2nd pairing on d. He's still only 23 i believe so give him some slack. He'll only get better.

[doom88]

From what I've seen Schenn has looked very good so far. Yes he had 1 bad turnover in the caps game. Overall he's looked very strong. He's looked much better than Coburn, gervais, lilja, foster. On this team that makes him a top 1st or 2nd pairing on d. He's still only 23 i believe so give him some slack. He'll only get better.

That last part is what gives me hope as well. I would like someone to coach him up positionally and make him more conscious of the opposing players around him. I've seen skaters sneak behind him too often for my comfort.

[LegionOfDoom]

Just as ballet does a football player good. I think figure skating would do a defensemen good. The agility on some of those figureskaters would do some wonders on our D's reactionary positional skating.

We can have our Coffey and drink it too.

[Polaris922]

I can't believe anyone would compare Couturier to Ryan as they currently stand. Couturier is nothing to Ryan. The question remains do you want a proven 30+ man now or do you want to bet on Couturier's potential in say... A few years?

[Irishjim]

I can't believe anyone would compare Couturier to Ryan as they currently stand. Couturier is nothing to Ryan. The question remains do you want a proven 30+ man now or do you want to bet on Couturier's potential in say... A few years?

you just want couts gone so he stops making malkin look bad

[radoran]

you just want couts gone so he stops making malkin look bad

Just to be clear this is the Evgeni Malkin who had eight points in six playoff games and nine points in six regular season games last season?

I like Coots and all but let's not overvalue or overstate what we have here...

[JackStraw]

I wouldn't trade Couturier for Ryan. Just about the only thing I would seriously consider trading Couter for would be the #1 pick in the draft (Seth Jones). It would probably take more than just Couts though.

Edited February 4, 2013 by JackStraw

[Polaris922]

you just want couts gone so he stops making malkin look bad

Nah... I still argue Malkin had his usual playoff series there. Lol. His career stats are what they are.

[Mad Dog]

Nah... I still argue Malkin had his usual playoff series there. Lol. His career stats are what they are.

If that makes you feel better, sure... keep talking yourself into that. Everybody who watched that series knows that's not the case.

[Polaris922]

If that makes you feel better, sure... keep talking yourself into that. Everybody who watched that series knows that's not the case.

So what you're saying is tying his second highest point per game playoff series is a credit to Couturier? Or his lack of power play production is because Laviolette had Couturier man-on-man while short handed? Or how about when he missed wide open nets, twice, with nobody on him?

Look I appreciate the support for Couturier here. The kid shows flashes of talent and may become a top six forward, or even top line. But Malkin is Malkin. Credit Couturier for covering him, fine, but he really did pretty much what he's been known for doing, stumbling in the first round of the playoffs.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Coots has struggled this year. IIRC, the one knock on him coming out of the draft, was his skating. Last year, I thought he looked good, but from what I've seen of him this year, his skating does appear to be a bit lacking. I'm not sure how that happens from one year to the next, but several times/in different games, I've seen him lose puck races, get caught from behind, and not look good in general.

I'm not saying trade him, I'm not saying he's a bust...to be clear. Just an observation.

[Podein25]

@DaGreatGazoo

It's a good observation. He has not shown any progress on his skating or his shot, two areas that need work. At times, even his otherwise great decision-making (especially for his age) has looked wanting (exhibit A - the breakaway he gave up vs WSH). I still say he is untouchable though.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Podein25

[Orangecat]

I can't believe anyone would compare Couturier to Ryan as they currently stand. Couturier is nothing to Ryan. The question remains do you want a proven 30+ man now or do you want to bet on Couturier's potential in say... A few years?

Okay, so you wouldn't trade for a guy who is a bonafide 30+ goal scorer for a guy who could potentially not come close to that? Look, I don't want to do it either but if the right package were in place...I wouldn't get pissed at Holmgren for it. Honestly, I'd sooner trade B. Schenn or Vorachek. This topic was really to get a better understand of those who consider him 100% off limits. Like JackStraw, to say that the ONLY thing he would consider for Couts is the #1 overall pick. Ridiculous.

[Polaris922]

Okay, so you wouldn't trade for a guy who is a bonafide 30+ goal scorer for a guy who could potentially not come close to that? Look, I don't want to do it either but if the right package were in place...I wouldn't get pissed at Holmgren for it. Honestly, I'd sooner trade B. Schenn or Vorachek. This topic was really to get a better understand of those who consider him 100% off limits. Like JackStraw, to say that the ONLY thing he would consider for Couts is the #1 overall pick. Ridiculous.

I'm not sure you got my point. Anaheim would be crazy to take Couturier for Ryan straight up. Period. Couturier is promise, but may still fail. Ryan is proven.

[Orangecat]

I'm not sure you got my point. Anaheim would be crazy to take Couturier for Ryan straight up. Period. Couturier is promise, but may still fail. Ryan is proven.

Ahhh....gotcha, couldn't agree more.