Suspension looming for B. Schenn

[ruxpin]

The possibility of something like that happening is obviously minute but it is enough to make me think we should do whatever we can to get the call right.

Yeah. I get that. I'm don't know if you're old enough to remember 1980. It wasn't quite the dramatics you describe, but it was pretty damn close. Still want to see Leon Stickle run over by a thrashing machine to this day.

(On the other hand, 33 years later and THAT is still as vivid a memory for me as Gene Hart yelling "The Flyers have won the Stanley Cup!")

[canoli]

@ruxpin

Interesting take on the situation but I'm a little confused by what you call "pure" and what we all know as "reality."

As far as merging technology with sports I think the ATP and the WTA have it right. They use "shot spot" a.k.a. "hawkeye" in all the bigger tournaments and the players can use it 3 times per set. Cameras are set up around the court, focused on the lines. Players have 3 challenges per set - if hawkeye proves them correct they keep the challenge; if they're wrong they lose the challenge.

Hockey could benefit from a system like this. Why allow incorrect outcomes? For the sake of some illusion of "purity?" If it's "purity" you're after then shouldn't we get rid of helmets and pads too? They dilute the purity of the game don't they? Seriously. Tell me what a pure hockey game looks like. Up until fairly recently it was guys skating without helmets, goalies without face masks, sticks without curves etc.

Humans created the game as a competition and we ought to make it as fair as possible, especially at the professional level where business interests dominate the sport. Blown calls are by definition an unfair advantage to one team, and unfair advantage is counterproductive to competition. The fact that blown calls may eventually balance out is no reason to allow them to continue, to the extent we can eliminate them.

As far as officials being "part of the game," they're not, not any more than the timekeeper is. Officials police the game and the more fairly they apply the rules the better the game, simple as that. Video review helps them do their job at a cost of a brief pause in the action. If interrupting the game 9 times a period to sell boner pills and mouthwash is alright then we can probably afford to pause once in awhile to get the calls right.

The idea is to get *all* the calls right. Anything less means a certain amount of corruption in the game, which to my mind is the real "impurity." Regardless whether they're the result of human error or your "mafia guy" in the back room pulling strings, blown calls hurt the game they don't make it more "pure."

[flyercanuck]

Ruxpin - interesting perspective. you make valid points that any purist can identify with. I personally have felt like all sports should use technology to get a call right as long as it is practical. After listening to your points and being a purist at heart, I tend to agree with you so I will say that if a sport is to use technology to assist in getting calls right, then they should go all in and truly use technology to its utmost potential in expanded facets of the game OR they should drop it all together and live and die by human accuracy. I myself still lean towards using technology depsite being a moderate purist but I think that may be because I dont think I could handle the pain if a blown call or non-call directly lead to a Philly loss in a championship game. Imagine this scenario - the Flyers are in a game 7 SCF in over time and Giroux blasts a one timer off the rear crossbar that comes out as fast as it went in and and the other team collects the "rebound" and skates down the ice in an odd man rush and scores the Stanley Cup winning goal. The ref's call on the ice for Giroux's shot was no goal/off the post but instant replay clearly shows it went in. With instant replay we would finally and deservedly win the cup and end 38 years of heartbreak but without instant replay our Flyers and we fans would have to watch another team skate the cup in front of us yet again. The possibility of something like that happening is obviously minute but it is enough to make me think we should do whatever we can to get the call right.

Imagine this more realistic scenario: Game 7 OT and the opposition skates down and shoots, off the crossbar, Giroux picks it up goes down and roofs it. Philly finally wins the cup and we're all celebrating. Upon further review it turns out that shot didn't go off the crossbar, it went in. The cup is ripped out of our clutches and handed over to the Columbus Blue jackets and their MVP The #1 Cop on the force....BOBROVSKY!!!

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

Interesting take on the situation but I'm a little confused by what you call "pure" and what we all know as "reality."

As far as merging technology with sports I think the ATP and the WTA have it right. They use "shot spot" a.k.a. "hawkeye" in all the bigger tournaments and the players can use it 3 times per set. Cameras are set up around the court, focused on the lines. Players have 3 challenges per set - if hawkeye proves them correct they keep the challenge; if they're wrong they lose the challenge.

Fair point, but it's a little bit of a different beast. Plus, it's tennis, so who cares?

Hockey could benefit from a system like this. Why allow incorrect outcomes? For the sake of some illusion of "purity?" If it's "purity" you're after then shouldn't we get rid of helmets and pads too? They dilute the purity of the game don't they? Seriously. Tell me what a pure hockey game looks like. Up until fairly recently it was guys skating without helmets, goalies without face masks, sticks without curves etc.

Let's not get carried away with "purity." I did have the caveat "when it comes to certain things." After all, if we went with 100% purity, the game would be outside. I do, however, want the game to be human, and in regard to the shootout, I want it to remain a team sport and not a skills competition.

Humans created the game as a competition and we ought to make it as fair as possible, especially at the professional level where business interests dominate the sport. Blown calls are by definition an unfair advantage to one team, and unfair advantage is counterproductive to competition. The fact that blown calls may eventually balance out is no reason to allow them to continue, to the extent we can eliminate them.

Admittedly a fair point and a perfectly understandable position. I respect that. I don't agree, but I respect it as well-reasoned.

As far as officials being "part of the game," they're not, not any more than the timekeeper is. Officials police the game and the more fairly they apply the rules the better the game, simple as that. Video review helps them do their job at a cost of a brief pause in the action. If interrupting the game 9 times a period to sell boner pills and mouthwash is alright then we can probably afford to pause once in awhile to get the calls right.

Again, no problem with the argument on a level of its being sound. We definitely disagree, probably on an existential level, about whether the officials are a part of the game. Obviously they are not carrying sticks or responsible for coverage, yadda yadda, but they are a part of the game I would prefer to keep.

The idea is to get *all* the calls right. Anything less means a certain amount of corruption in the game, which to my mind is the real "impurity." Regardless whether they're the result of human error or your "mafia guy" in the back room pulling strings, blown calls hurt the game they don't make it more "pure."

Again, I don't really agree that blown calls hurt the game--on the macro level I assumed you meant, anyway (individual games, yeah). I see them as part of the game. But that's just a difference of perspective (not intended to be an insult or to diminish your perspective. It's certainly more mainstream than mine). I forget the latin for taking an argument to the absurd, but I'm about to be guilty of it. I think we should skip live players and live officials and go to all watching a video game to make sure all errors are taken out, everything is all fair, and all calls are made correctly. Replays, etc., certainly don't reach that absurdity but it's a step toward it (arguably small) that--for me--isn't necessary.

[ruxpin]

"Reductio ad absurdum," if anyone cares.

I think it meant something different in Harry Potter.

[ruxpin]

Imagine this more realistic scenario: Game 7 OT and the opposition skates down and shoots, off the crossbar, Giroux picks it up goes down and roofs it. Philly finally wins the cup and we're all celebrating. Upon further review it turns out that shot didn't go off the crossbar, it went in. The cup is ripped out of our clutches and handed over to the Columbus Blue jackets and their MVP The #1 Cop on the force....BOBROVSKY!!!

You're a sick, sick man. I can respect that.

[TedZep]

but I dunno that reviewing every possible call or missed call is the answer.

I didn't think we were talking about every call and non-call, just ones that are injurious or potentially injurious to the players, ala Carter's very obviously deliberate kick to Rinaldo or Schenn's charge that may or may not have been reviewed by the league. Player safety (and reinforcing players' respect for other players) is paramount.

As to broadening replay rules, maybe include goals scored on potential off-sides, either automatically or via a coaches challenge... I don't think that would slow the game up any more than, to paraphrase Canoli, the time they take to sell boner pills and mouthwash. But I wouldn't mind if that didn't happen. Take care of the dirty players first.

[flyercanuck]

You're a sick, sick man. I can respect that.

Thanks rux. That comment means a lot coming from a man like you.

[JackStraw]

It's hockey, not soccer or ballet.

Not according to Jack Edwards:

[ruxpin]

If interrupting the game 9 times a period to sell boner pills and mouthwash is alright

@TedZep quoted this and reminded me that I forgot to comment: This line cracked me the hell up.

[trevluk]

Imagine this more realistic scenario: Game 7 OT and the opposition skates down and shoots, off the crossbar, Giroux picks it up goes down and roofs it. Philly finally wins the cup and we're all celebrating. Upon further review it turns out that shot didn't go off the crossbar, it went in. The cup is ripped out of our clutches and handed over to the Columbus Blue jackets and their MVP The #1 Cop on the force....BOBROVSKY!!!

I just might have to jump.

[Skatebyu66]

Schenn will get one game for wearing an Orange and Black jersey, and three for the hit itself. The kneeing penalty by Carter definitely should've been called. It wouldn't surprise me if got a game anyway for that, but then again he hit a Flyer so the league office will probably give him a bonus check.

Riiiiiight....its the orange and black

[TedZep]

@canoli

I you are shopping for boner pills AND mouthwash at the same time, I'd say that is a very good weekend.

[Polaris922]

Well .. Schenn got nothing but deserved a couple in my eyes. Kind of makes up for Carter not getting anything, even though that was your GM's fault not the league's. *shrugs*

[jammer2]

@TedZep LMAO @ boner pills!!