DaGreatGazoo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well, if my math is somewhat correct, they are almost $4.5 million over the cap now. Pronger's LTIR hit is $4.9 million, assuming they can "use" it all. In other words, a trade is coming; maybe Homer had a handshake on that trade for a while, maybe not. If not, they will once again be dealing from a position of weakness! I foresee another Gagne for Matt Walker style trade coming shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I wouldn't take Gagne, period. As for Cleary vs. Gagne, I like the grit that Cleary brings. Me makes the Flyers harder to play against. Gagne doesn't. I hope Gagne latched on somewhere and I don't wish him ill, but I think he's a shadow of the player he used to be. And I wouldn't sign Hal Gill to even an entry-level contract. They may be letting him audition for elsewhere. Exactly. He's done. Cleary might cost too much money and another NTC (especially to a guy his age) might be beyond stupid, but at least he's going to play. I don't care if Gagne's cheaper, it's irrelevant when he's up in the press box (which is most of the time anymore). Homer is a really bizarre GM. I think he has an eye for talent and aside from Bryz, I've liked most of his acquisitions. But the man has no concept of what a cap is and no regard for the future at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsterix Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Wow! No wonder Cleary didn't want to sign a PTO in Detroit if that kind of deal was on the table. Good for him but I'm not so sure that's the kind of deal that the Flyers needed. But with Paul Holmgren, we can expect anything. Is he stacking up on forward depth to pull a deal to get a defenseman? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leach27 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 COMPLETELY agree! Then Flyers management should have let it be known that they had no intention to sign him. Instead he was lead to believe that as soon as Pronger was put on LTIR he would be signed. Your going to fault gagne for being loyal? For living up to his word? Apparently a handshake deal was in place, that means nothing though to The Flyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Then Flyers management should have let it be known that they had no intention to sign him. Instead he was lead to believe that as soon as Pronger was put on LTIR he would be signed. Your going to fault gagne for being loyal? For living up to his word? Apparently a handshake deal was in place, that means nothing though to The Flyers. If in fact they asked Gagne to wait around, yeah, that's pretty uncool. I still think Gagne will have no trouble finding a job. Or maybe something else is about to happen... We seem to have a logjam on defense, and we invited Gill on a PTO. It must be fun to be inside Homer's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @Leach27 Your going to fault gagne for being loyal? For living up to his word? No, not at all. In fact, I actually said: I would, however, feel badly if he was promised something and now is left out in the cold. And as to this: Apparently a handshake deal was in place, that means nothing though to The Flyers. Not a damn thing, apparently. And I don't think it's the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leach27 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @Leach27 No, not at all. In fact, I actually said: And as to this: Not a damn thing, apparently. And I don't think it's the first time. And it wont be the last. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 It must be fun to be inside Homer's head. I'm thinking there must be a hell of a lot of leg room! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Not a damn thing, apparently. And I don't think it's the first time. Cleary better make damn sure he doesn't pick up an injury in camp or, you know, bowling or something... The only deals that matter are the ones that are signed, sealed and delivered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 This quote is from the article and sums it up for me: "He’s an asset the Wings would have taken back, but they couldn’t find the cap space nor did they have a desire to go three years with him. Because Ken Holland, unlike some general managers with crew cuts and Flyers cufflinks, understands the need to filter young players into specific roles." http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/flyers-baffling-3-deal-dan-cleary-130259523--nhl.html We can't keep doing this. We have to start giving opportunities to our young players. Trust the talent we have coming up. Maybe this means we just don't have anyone in the system. I don't buy that, though. Is Cleary the guy that's going to win us a Cup this season, the one missing piece? I doubt it. And because he isn't, don't do it!! Save the money for a solid defenseman. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) I can only imagine how bummed some of the kids feel today...Laughton knows his hard work is for nothing, no way he makes this team this year, they'd just waste a year of his contract. well. ok. sure, maybe, but...how common is it for a guy to break into the league out of camp, versus spending a season or two as a call up? 5 games last season hardly counts. you talk like all 13 forwards will be healthy all year, and if laughton doesn't make the team out of camp, he will have to wait a year to try again. my guess is he is in a flyers jersey by the end of october, regardless of how camp goes. for how long is an open question, but still. if he isn't competing for a roster spot in a week, he will be competing for ranking on the call up list. and that's fine. edit: whoops, right, will be sent back to junior. you're right, sorry about that. i'm still ok with it. Edited September 10, 2013 by aziz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH1FlyersFan Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 @AMMOnation I just knew Homer would find a way to spend Pronger's LTIR money before camp opened. Apparently, according to the Detroit Free Press article, the Flyer's can't sign him until Pronger's money becomes available. I suppose this means Gagne will be shown the door, which sucks because it looked like they had a deal in place a lot like Cleary's. Gagne could have been shopping his services to other teams instead of waiting for a contract that never materialized. I suppose they could still sign both, but highly unlikely. We just became a more dangerous playoff team, should we make them, so that is a plus. If Gagne gets left holding the stick though, that is kinda dirty.I haven't read every post yet, so apologies if this has come up - when comparing Cleary to Gagne, my question is who is more healthy. If Cleary is more likely to hold up over the course of the season better, and if he's less injury prone or has less of a history of injuries, then I can see why they'd let Gagne go over Cleary. For me, that would be a major consideration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Is Cleary the guy that's going to win us a Cup this season, the one missing piece? I doubt it. And because he isn't, don't do it!! I agree with your "start giving opportunities to our young players" and the "trust the talent we have coming up." But I don't think the quote above should be the criteria by which you decide to make moves. It's shouldn't be about the "one missing piece" for a team that didn't even make the playoffs. There are very few "one missing piece" anyway, and even then you still have to have the rest of the puzzle. If you want a specific type to fill a specific role and don't have that in house, you go get it. In the grand scheme of things, while the dollar amount and years is a little more than I'd have liked, it's not THAT bad. I just don't think every move should be looked at through the "one missing piece" lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 well. ok. sure, maybe, but...how common is it for a guy to break into the league out of camp, versus spending a season or two as a call up? 5 games last season hardly counts. you talk like all 13 forwards will be healthy all year, and if laughton doesn't make the team out of camp, he will have to wait a year to try again. my guess is he is in a flyers jersey by the end of october, regardless of how camp goes. for how long is an open question, but still. if he isn't competing for a roster spot in a week, he will be competing for ranking on the call up list. and that's fine.I don't think he can do the AHL, can he? That was the point I was going for...he's back in juniors for the entire year if he doesn't make the team. That sucks for him if so, especially given how well he played before being sent back last year. I can't look up his info at the moment. I'm supposed to be paying attention in a meeting. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 You boys will like this guy. All heart great motor never quits, I for one hate to see him go but youth must be served. Tatar and Nyquist are pushing and Weiss and Alfie are already here. Cleary wanted desperately to stay in Detroit, just no room. Glad to see him get his three year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 You boys will like this guy. All heart great motor never quits, I for one hate to see him go but youth must be served. Tatar and Nyquist are pushing and Weiss and Alfie are already here. Cleary wanted desperately to stay in Detroit, just no room. Glad to see him get his three year deal.Good to hear from someone who has followed him. I don't dislike the player, just the contract length and the NMC. Hell, I think that is my new signature; it applies to everyone the Flyers sign anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 If in fact they asked Gagne to wait around, yeah, that's pretty uncool. I still think Gagne will have no trouble finding a job. Or maybe something else is about to happen...We seem to have a logjam on defense, and we invited Gill on a PTO. It must be fun to be inside Homer's head. Now that I can agree with. Even when he signs a player I like, there's usually something about the deal I don't like. Why he gives away NTCs like candy, I cannot even begin to wrap my mind around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Then Flyers management should have let it be known that they had no intention to sign him. Instead he was lead to believe that as soon as Pronger was put on LTIR he would be signed. Your going to fault gagne for being loyal? For living up to his word? Apparently a handshake deal was in place, that means nothing though to The Flyers.umm... how do you know they didn't? i haven't heard any complaints from gagne's camp yet and until then, i'll assume nothing was ever guaranteed as i would have expected from homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I haven't read every post yet, so apologies if this has come up - when comparing Cleary to Gagne, my question is who is more healthy. If Cleary is more likely to hold up over the course of the season better, and if he's less injury prone or has less of a history of injuries, then I can see why they'd let Gagne go over Cleary. For me, that would be a major consideration.According to many Wings fans (and some others) Cleary's style of play has taken its toll on him. His knees are bad and he's lost a lot of his speed. Since the surgery to have that mass removed from his neck, Gagne hasn't had any health problems that I'm aware of. He's lost a step but he still has good wheels and way more talent than Cleary ever had. Both are defensively responsible. But Gags can still be serviceable on the top two lines if need be, and he can play the PP. More value for (probably) less money. Cleary is probably a better fit as a third line grinder, but he's not going to make the Flyers a contender and by the time they are contenders he'll be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I just don't think every move should be looked at through the "one missing piece" lens. How about the "what exactly is the point" lens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 (edited) Cleary is probably a better fit as a third line grinder, but he's not going to make the Flyers a contender and by the time they are contenders he'll be done. Gagne wont either... The upside: Cleary is a better fit for this Team than Gagne. I love Simon but people need to get over the hugs 'n kissy feeling they get when the see #12 (not you specifically Jack - just in general). Do I like the terms? No but I do think he is going to help this Team and he adds a presence on the ice - he is a tough "balls to the wall" hockey player. He can play the PK and will be a nice addition to a line w/ Cooter and Read. Hey, playing along with those two he might score more than he did in Detroit. The downside: Another NTC for a player that is getting a little loing in the tooth. Salary seems a little too high but w/ the cap expected to go up I dont think it will be a problem. Lastly, I still think we are shedding a defenseman in the near future... All in all I dont hate the deal b/c I am over the "Gagne comes back to Philly" story and have moved on... I still hope to hell that Laughton makes the aquad but I am just not sure where he fits. If he has a great camp I think another trade could come down to find a roster spot... Edited September 10, 2013 by murraycraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 How about the "what exactly is the point" lens? Now THAT is a good criteria, (smart ass). Seriously, though. I don't have any problem with that question. The answer changes depending upon what part we're talking about. Signing him at all? I think the point is to make the checking line tougher and harder to play against. I don't anticipate Cleary typically playing on the same line as Talbot so I'm not terribly upset that they play similarly. It brings added grit and moderate skill to both lines. I didn't notice this being an issue myself, but maybe the thought was that Coots could use that kind of help on his wing. If "what exactly is the point to a third year and a NTC?" I'm not sure I can answer that. I'm not sure there's even a good answer. I don't know who else Cleary was talking to, but I haven't seen anything credible indicating he was. If it was "3rd year, take it or leave it" from Cleary, I probably would have left it. At the amount, I guess it's really not a travesty, but I'm wondering how effective he'll be in that 3rd year. And the no trade clause actually comes pre-printed on all Flyer contracts, so that's the point to that. It's actually part of the letterhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Gagne hasn't had any health problems that I'm aware of. Nor any real residual ability. I'm sorry, but at this point in his career he's an utterly forgettable player. If he hadn't been here the first time around and we were basing our opinion solely on his play last year I don't think we'd even be discussing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Gagne wont either No, but he almost certainly would have been cheaper. As would have a younger guy like Laughton or McGinn. Thus my "what's the point" comment to rux. Cleary doesn't put them over the top of anything, so why blow your cap space on him? If you don't think the young guys are ready, stick with Gags at a bargain price rather than overpay for Cleary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Man Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 GREAT move and the costs are just fine. You add Cleary to this team in 2012 and they make the playoffs. He's a difference maker on the ice and a tone setter, something this team desperately needs. Good work Homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.