Did John Scott break "The Code"?

[JR Ewing]

It's one of the classic old-time 'codes' in hockey - that enforcers fight the enforcers. The enforcers protect the skill players. The enforcers don't usually get mixed up with the skill guys.

 

And yet on Sunday night in Toronto, Buffalo Sabres tough guy John Scott and Maple Leafs star forward Phil Kessel hooked up in a battle of words that sparked a fight between them - and a line brawl around them. Scott dropped his gloves and Kessel retreated while swinging his stick at the same time.

 

When it was all said and done, Scott received an instigator penalty along with five minutes for fighting, a 10-minute misconduct and a game misconduct. Kessel received a match penalty for attempt to injure.

 

Most would not support Kessel's use of his stick as a weapon, but did Scott break the fighting code in the first place? Kessel is eight inches shorter and 68 pounds lighter than Scott, who is listed at 6'8" and 270 lbs.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=432574

 

JR

 

 

 

[JR Ewing]

My own vote went top option #3. The code basically boils down to "we need enforcers top stop the dirty crap from being in the game. However, enforcers may only fight other enforcers, even if the other guy hasn't been doing any of the dirty stuff. As such let's just have the goons fight other goons after faceoffs."

 

JR

[radoran]

Carlyle was at home, with last change and he decided that leaving Phil Kessel standing next to John Scott in an overheated atmosphere was the outcome he wanted - apparently with the idea that it would "defuse" the situation.

 

Kessel then engaged Scott in a "war of words" and took swipes at him with his stick.

 

How'd that work out for him?

 

Kessel should be suspended for intent to injure. Period. Using your stick as a weapon is a cowardly move. That, my friend, is the "code" that got broken.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I was typing that exact thing up, JR.  Enforcers only fighting enforcers does nothing to "ENFORCE" the game.  If some is running Giroux--either hammer the offending player, or run the other team's best player.  Don't stage a fight after a faceoff, and have Jay Rosehill vs John Scott.  

 

For the record..I love fighting, I am in favor of it staying in the game.  I just don't get the "code" talk in today's game.  I think it used to be that way. But as the game as evolved, I think players are more "specialized" to a point, and the code isn't as valid.  

[Samifan]

While I consider Scott a Neanderthal who has no business being in the NHL, I have to agree with Rad, Kessel's stick work which included a spear at the end was over the line. Kessel's intent to injure was the Code Breaker.

[JR Ewing]

Devil's Advocate....... So, they both broke "The Code". We can't pin it solely on either one of them.

 

Scott: broke the code by which enforcers live by going after a non-enforcer in the first place.

Kessel: broke a cardinal rule for hockey players in general by using his stick as a weapon.

 

/devilsadvocate

 

JR

[radoran]

Devil's Advocate....... So, they both broke "The Code". We can't pin it solely on either one of them.

 

Scott: broke the code by which enforcers live by going after a non-enforcer in the first place.

Kessel: broke a cardinal rule for hockey players in general by using his stick as a weapon.

 

/devilsadvocate

 

JR

 

It's a valid point, JR, but then that comes down to the whole "enforcers only fight enforcers" being amongst the dumbest ideas present in the "code".

 

Having John Scott beat up on Colton Orr because a "skill" player got run by another "skill" player is ridiculous.

 

It also gives free rein for "skill" players to go out and do whatever the hell the want to with the full knowledge that the only person who's potentially take a punch for it is two other guys who had nothing to do with it.

 

The Crosbys of the world can only hide behind so many skirts before they might actually have to put up or shut up.

[JR Ewing]

It's a valid point, JR, but then that comes down to the whole "enforcers only fight enforcers" being amongst the dumbest ideas present in the "code".

 

Having John Scott beat up on Colton Orr because a "skill" player got run by another "skill" player is ridiculous.

 

It also gives free rein for "skill" players to go out and do whatever the hell the want to with the full knowledge that the only person who's potentially take a punch for it is two other guys who had nothing to do with it.

 

The Crosbys of the world can only hide behind so many skirts before they might actually have to put up or shut up.

 

I agree 100% on all points. Thus, my answer in the poll above.   

 

JR

Edited September 23, 2013 by JR Ewing

[radoran]

I agree 100% on all points.

 

JR

 

nice to have another #devilsadvocate around here

 

And, no, not the Jersey Devils

[blocker]

I'm dumb.  But, I'm not dumb enough to run my mouth to someone who's a hell of a lot bigger than me. 

 

If I did, I'd expect a fight.  And, if that fight happened, I hope I would have enough balls to not use my stick. 

[Polaris922]

So I gotta ask... If Scott was out there to go after Kessel, what did Kessel do to deserve the attention? What got Scott yapping with Kessel in the first place?

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

So I gotta ask... If Scott was out there to go after Kessel, what did Kessel do to deserve the attention? What got Scott yapping with Kessel in the first place?

 

@Polaris922,

 

We can only assume it was the previous fight.  Toronto's 6'5", 217 lb. Jamie Devane fought 6'0", 185 lb. forward Corey Tropp of the Sabres.  Tropp got knocked out, if not by a punch, then definitely by getting his head driven into the ice.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922,

We can only assume it was the previous fight. Toronto's 6'5", 217 lb. Jamie Devane fought 6'0", 185 lb. forward Corey Tropp of the Sabres. Tropp got knocked out, if not by a punch, then definitely by getting his head driven into the ice.

Then I blame Scott. For decades coaches have put skill players on the ice after a fight and tempers flare to deescalate a situation. And for years the other team's goons respected that concession and played the game. For Scott to go at Kessel makes him the pansy here. The old pick on someone your own size comes to mind. Sure it's a different story if Kessel had done something goonish but that was not the case at all.

[JR Ewing]

So I gotta ask... If Scott was out there to go after Kessel, what did Kessel do to deserve the attention? What got Scott yapping with Kessel in the first place?

 

Scott himself said at after the game: he was doing his job, and would have done the same thing regardless of who standing across from him. Kessel didn't bring it upon himself.

 

JR

[radoran]

Then I blame Scott. For decades coaches have put skill players on the ice after a fight and tempers flare to deescalate a situation. And for years the other team's goons respected that concession and played the game. For Scott to go at Kessel makes him the pansy here. The old pick on someone your own size comes to mind. Sure it's a different story if Kessel had done something goonish but that was not the case at all.

 

Let's look at this again.

 

Carlyle had last change. He put Kessel on the ice knowing who Buffalo had out there.

[flyerrod]

Then I blame Scott. For decades coaches have put skill players on the ice after a fight and tempers flare to deescalate a situation. And for years the other team's goons respected that concession and played the game. For Scott to go at Kessel makes him the pansy here. The old pick on someone your own size comes to mind. Sure it's a different story if Kessel had done something goonish but that was not the case at all.

Sorry, you are wrong here. Carlyle had last change and put Kessel in that position. No 2 ways about it. It looked like Devane had finished Tropp(not Rupp) by falling with his fore arm driving Tropps head into the ice. Intentional or not is not up to me but it sure looked bad. At this point the Leafs put their  goon(Kessel ) on the ice to verbally joust with Scott.....BRILLIANT move.......

[yave1964]

Nothing Scott did was worthy of the bullshit Kessel spearing hack attack.

[Polaris922]

@radoran

@flyerrod

So let me get this straight... Carlyle puts a skill line out to defuse the situation. To say "hey... There was a fight, now lets play the game". Something coaches have done for decades to deescalate a game... And Kessel deserves his head knocked off?

That's not macho. That's not enforcing or standing up for your team. That's chickenscratch. I don't respect Kessel's cheap shots, but Scott's actions are the reason it happened. Two dirtbag moves, but Scott's is worse for going after a skill player who had done nothing to deserve it. He should've waited till Devane was back on the ice and gone after him instead.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Polaris922

[flyerrod]

Carlyle puts a skill line out to defuse the situation.

....After his player (Devane)  had created the problem.....real or perceived. If Scott is sent onto the ice, diffusion is not going to occur. Scott is out there to "send" a message that driving a player's head into the ice is not okay.......If Carlyle is that ignorant to think that him putting a skilled player across from a goon is a good idea then he does not need to be a head coach.

[JR Ewing]

....After his player (Devane)  had created the problem.....real or perceived. If Scott is sent onto the ice, diffusion is not going to occur. Scott is out there to "send" a message that driving a player's head into the ice is not okay.......If Carlyle is that ignorant to think that him putting a skilled player across from a goon is a good idea then he does not need to be a head coach.

 

Especially considering that Carlyle himself is a coach who isn't remotely shy about using enforcers like that.

 

JR

[mojo1917]

If Kessel was sent out to "diffuse" the situation he did a piss poor job. He ran his mouth to a guy who's job is to fight on skates, then when Scott called him out on it ... Kessel starts swinging the lumber ? Kessel has shown his true punk colors.

I think this new code of enforcers having staged fights is stupid, if people were to respect the code of competing hard for every inch of ice , bending a few rules if you can get away with while respecting your opponent, I'd be for that code and it's enforcement.

[radoran]

@radoran

@flyerrod

So let me get this straight... Carlyle puts a skill line out to defuse the situation. To say "hey... There was a fight, now lets play the game". Something coaches have done for decades to deescalate a game... And Kessel deserves his head knocked off?

That's not macho. That's not enforcing or standing up for your team. That's chickenscratch. I don't respect Kessel's cheap shots, but Scott's actions are the reason it happened. Two dirtbag moves, but Scott's is worse for going after a skill player who had done nothing to deserve it. He should've waited till Devane was back on the ice and gone after him instead.

 

Coaches from teams who have experienced wrongdoing have put skill guys out to defuse situations and put the game back onto a hockey footing.

 

There isn't a coach in the history of hockey who saw someone put out a 6'8" goon and thought "let me put one of my skill guys out there to run his mouth with him."

 

You know, I know, Carlyle knew, Kessel's mom knew, Kessel's third cousin twice removed knew that he would run his mouth in that situation.

 

If anyone "broke the code" it was Carlyle. And then Kessel.

 

And anything Scott did is nothing compared to what Kessel did.

 

POS punk.

[Polaris922]

Sorry boys, I'm no Kessel fan but Scott is every bit the douchebag. I don't see Devane trying to slam Tropp just Tropp going down and banging the ice after a punch. Are we all gonna throw Tortorella fits when a guy engages in violence and has some misfortune in the end? I didn't see any egregious offense unless Tropp is a skill guy and Devane targeted him. I don't know either of them from anything. Otherwise... Scott is the villain, THEN Kessel is an ass.

[radoran]

Sorry boys, I'm no Kessel fan but Scott is every bit the douchebag. I don't see Devane trying to slam Tropp just Tropp going down and banging the ice after a punch. Are we all gonna throw Tortorella fits when a guy engages in violence and has some misfortune in the end? I didn't see any egregious offense unless Tropp is a skill guy and Devane targeted him. I don't know either of them from anything. Otherwise... Scott is the villain, THEN Kessel is an ass.

 

I don't think anyone is saying Scott isn't "the bad guy."

 

Just that the coach that failed to recognize that was the one at fault.

[Polaris922]

I don't think anyone is saying Scott isn't "the bad guy."

Just that the coach that failed to recognize that was the one at fault.

Carlyle has always seemed to be the calculating type though. My money is on him thinking little Kessel would be ignored or Scott wouldn't cross that line. Wrong either way. But he knew his team wouldn't let Kessel get pounded either. Kessel was an ass for sword fighting. What coach can predict that?