ok..0-3 to start season...now what?

[pilldoc]

Seriously...now what.  No bitchin, no complaining....  This team needs to start doing some soul searchin now or Lavy may not make it to 10 games into the season.  If Lavy goes..then Homer needs to go....make Murray interim coach ONLY until end of season and see who is available.  I know we all want fresh blood in this organization and Hexy looks like heir apparrent to the GM spot...but he was a Flyer....would he be considered one of the good ole boys?  Or because he was in LA for a bit he can look at this with a new fresh perspective.  Just thinking out loud here.

 

I've got no more answers for this team........Seriously how much more restraint and patience do we give this team????

[ruxpin]

Zero patience.

The only part of that I don't want is Murray.

I don't know what kind of change Hextall would represent, but let's give it a shot.

[murraycraven]

I think it was rux that posted in another thread that this is nothing more than a continuation of last year's slop. Yes, mezz is back but he has not been good. We replaced one aging vet w another. Although I think Vinny has been somewhat of a bright spot. Streit has been added and I have not been impressed thus far.

All in all it us the same team which is not very good. The defense is slow and just not good. Still not sure WTH Gus is in the press box bc he can actually skate the puck.

IMO this team is the same as last year and simply not good enough. Snider, Homer and crew all believed that last year was an anomaly which was nothing more than gross negligence and an utter miscalculation.

I hope they turn it around but this team is average IMO. People that think this team has any chance of contending is drinking the orange Kool aide.

[ruxpin]

@murraycraven

I completely agree if by orange Kool Aid you mean dropping acid followed by a meth amphetamine chaser.

[murraycraven]

Rux... I am talking orange bath salts turning people into zombie type ****!

[Phillygrump]

I'm concerned as to why this team can't score. They are getting pretty decent goaltending. Its not time to panic though.

[murraycraven]

@doc... I don't think the are any quick and easy answers. I think it comes down to developing the young kids of management feels they are truly a good young core. Somebody on defense needs to be moved ASAP so Guscan get in the lineup.

If they feel this group is worth it then create a plan to build through the draft with the understanding that this team will not be a contender for a few years. Bring in a Coach that can work with a young team. The problem is there are too many crippling contracts which will be hard to move.

I fully expect Homer to make a trade in the next two days to shake it up too...

Edited October 7, 2013 by murraycraven

[ruxpin]

This isn't panic. This is simple straight up acknowledgement that I'm watching exactly what I saw last year and what made them have no chance of making the playoffs. This is game 51 of utter crap.

[ruxpin]

@... I don't think the are any quick and easy answers. I think it comes down to developing the young kids of management feels they are truly a good young core. Somebody on defense needs to be moved ASAP so his can get in the in the lineup.

If they feel this group is worth of then create a plan to build through the draft with the understanding that this team will not be a contender for a few years. Being in a Coach that can work with a young team. The problem is there are too many crippling contracts....

It would be slightly easier to stomach if management would simply acknowledge that they are building and not remotely in "challenger" mode. That way management would be honest and some of their fans not so damn maddeningly delusional.

[Mad Dog]

Doc, good question.  Now what...  Most likely tomorrow morning the Flyers will hold a closed-door players-only meeting.  And they will go over some stuff... I am sure.

 

But the reality is, I agree that this is nothing more than a continuation of the last season.  They don't look terrible, but they are clearly not an elite team.  Not only they are not an elite team; right now they look very much like a team who is going to miss the playoffs.  They will eventually win the first game of the season I am sure.  They will also win a good deal of games.  But something is missing with this team.  For the first time I followed this team I am watching intently and I can't even identify what it is that's plaguing them.  If in previous years it was easy to pinpoint the problem... whether it was goaltending, or transition, or inability to generate the offence, I am not sure what it is this year.  I mean as you watch this team play, you can see this is a flawed team.  No doubt.  But I don't know what it is.  The players don't seem to be on the same page.  There are missed opportunities.  There are sloppy plays.  I disagree with those who indicated the lack of mobility is an issue.  I really don't see much of that.  But the players are just not clicking.

 

It would be interesting to see what happens next.  I will say the next week is probably going to be very crticitical in the status of Laviolette.  Beyond that, I am just going to seat back and watch.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Mad Dog

[murraycraven]

@ Rux...   Agree 100%.  I am fine w/ actually having a plan and building through the draft!   Unfortunately, it is not the way this Club is run...

 

One thing that people need to realize, for the love of Christ, is THIS IS NOT PANICKING!!!!   It is nothing more than the realization this Team is not all that good.   So please stop saying everyone is panicking b/c we dont drink the f'n Orange Kool Aid.    This Team was bad last year, bad during the preseason and has been horrible in the first 3 games of this season - they simply are not that good.  It is the same mistakes that plagued them last year, this preseason and so far this regular season so what would make any logical person think this wont keep happening?

 

 

The Flyers are the absolute definition of insanity.  It is not working and there is a trend (going back for some time now) of bad turnovers, lack of playing 60 minutes, bad breakouts and not being able to get the puck in deep and work along the boards, perimeter offense and absolutely horrid defense.

 

 

I hope I am wrong about this Team - I truly do...  but at the end of the day it is about results and the results have been pretty damn bad since the beginning of last season.

Edited October 7, 2013 by murraycraven

[ruxpin]

@Mad Dog

I like your post and agree that the problem is very hard to identify. Each of the individual puzzle pieces seem okay, but I think some simply belong to different puzzles and simply don't go together. The result is a jumbled mess. The problem here isn't ON the ice, that's why it's harder to see. It's just that this team has been put together in such a way that it has no identity, no cohesion, no character, and no chemistry.

I do think mobility on the defense is an issue, but let me explain because it's possible I'm not really using the right word for it. They MOVE, so I guess they're mobILE. But they are not skating the puck out of the zone very well and they're not passing it out well either. I don't mean to complain about mobility in the way I did about Rathje (stand there as everyone skates by because you're slower than an Ent). My problem is they are not smooth with either the skating or the passing or even with the dump out. As a group, they seem incapable of making the right decision or of efficiently performing the task when they accidentally do make the right decision.

I see them getting bogged down in their own and most of the time their problems are self-inflicted.

That's what I (possibly incorrectly) meant by mobility. Just wanted to make sure that if we are going to disagree that we're actually talking about the same thing.

[mojo1917]

@ruxpin

I see the same sort of ...futility in the offensive zone, 3 guys along the boards trying to win a puck battle, they have been okay in that aspect , but then have no one to pass too, it' s like watching U10 soccer, a dog pile around the ball ( in this case it's a puck ) but there Is no one finding an open area to be in to take a pass, no one cutting through the slot.

It's pretty clear they don't trust one another to be where they're supposed to be...maybe instead of alpine sliding in lake placid they could have drilled and skated and you know got to know each other on the ice.

If the GM is going to insist on creating a new team every year this type of start will be inevitable .

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

I see the same sort of ...futility in the offensive zone, 3 guys along the boards trying to win a puck battle, they have been okay in that aspect , but then have no one to pass too, it' s like watching U10 soccer, a dog pile around the ball ( in this case it's a puck ) but there Is no one finding an open area to be in to take a pass, no one cutting through the slot.

It's pretty clear they don't trust one another to be where they're supposed to be...maybe instead of alpine sliding in lake placid they could have drilled and skated and you know got to know each other on the ice.

If the GM is going to insist on creating a new team every year this type of start will be inevitable .

Great post. Completely agree. Nice point about U10, too.

[pilldoc]

@all

 

Everyone has made good points.  I know there are no clear cut aswers and I am just as frustrated/doumbfounded as everyone else. Face the facts...this team as put together is not that good.  The reasons are multi-faceted to why this team is not performing to expectations. I agree with Rux.  I wish management would just say rebuild and cut some aging vets...but then you have those damm hideous contracts that Homer has given out.  What a mess. (shaking my head).

[OH1FlyersFan]

Considering goaltending was a question mark to start the season, I've actually been pretty pleasantly suprised with how our goaltenders have been able to keep us in games.  They've met, if not exceeded, expecations.  The offense has performed dismally.  When your "vaunted" offense (wasn't Giroux the best player in the world only two seasons ago??) can score only 1 goal a game, you can have the best minder in net and it won't make a bit of difference.....you'll still lose.  Totally disappointed in the first line and they aren't getting any support from the second or third.  These guys need to shake off the cobwebs, dust, whatever it is and get their collective heads in the games.  We knew defense was weak, but this is just head-shakingly sad. 

[ruxpin]

Considering goaltending was a question mark to start the season, I've actually been pretty pleasantly suprised with how our goaltenders have been able to keep us in games. They've met, if not exceeded, expecations. The offense has performed dismally. When your "vaunted" offense (wasn't Giroux the best player in the world only two seasons ago??) can score only 1 goal a game, you can have the best minder in net and it won't make a bit of difference.....you'll still lose. Totally disappointed in the first line and they aren't getting any support from the second or third. These guys need to shake off the cobwebs, dust, whatever it is and get their collective heads in the games. We knew defense was weak, but this is just head-shakingly sad.

Goaltending is the very least of concerns right now but we're still giving up the absurdly weak goal. Hockeywise it's a wash. The only difference is the Flyers aren't paying through the nose for the average goaltending

[King Knut]

Lavvy's time is up as is Homer's. as of tonight they must both be fired immediately.

End of discussion.

As for our patience?

I have none left. I'm done waiting for them. They'll have to show me something before I can give a damn again. Don't know when I'll watch again. Maybe if they get back to .500 by Halloween I'll think it over.

Where is Giroux?

Where is Jake?

where is Simmonds?

Where is Hartnell?

Where is Couturier?

What

The

Hell

?

Everyone who decided trading Richards and Carter would pay off, where are you on that one now? Our handful of magic beans is a magic bust.

Enough with the good old boys and O&B vets.

We need a g.d. Professional in there. Someone who might know what he's doing for a change.

Seriously...now what. No bitchin, no complaining.... This team needs to start doing some soul searchin now or Lavy may not make it to 10 games into the season. If Lavy goes..then Homer needs to go....make Murray interim coach ONLY until end of season and see who is available. I know we all want fresh blood in this organization and Hexy looks like heir apparrent to the GM spot...but he was a Flyer....would he be considered one of the good ole boys? Or because he was in LA for a bit he can look at this with a new fresh perspective. Just thinking out loud here.

I've got no more answers for this team........Seriously how much more restraint and patience do we give this team????

[King Knut]

Lavvy's time is up as is Homer's. as of tonight they must both be fired immediately.

End of discussion.

As for our patience?

I have none left. I'm done waiting for them. They'll have to show me something before I can give a damn again. Don't know when I'll watch again. Maybe if they get back to .500 by Halloween I'll think it over.

Where is Giroux?

Where is Jake?

where is Simmonds?

Where is Hartnell?

Where is Couturier?

What

The

Hell

?

Everyone who decided trading Richards and Carter would pay off, where are you on that one now? Our handful of magic beans is a magic bust.

Enough with the good old boys and O&B vets.

We need a g.d. Professional in there. Someone who might know what he's doing for a change.

Seriously...now what. No bitchin, no complaining.... This team needs to start doing some soul searchin now or Lavy may not make it to 10 games into the season. If Lavy goes..then Homer needs to go....make Murray interim coach ONLY until end of season and see who is available. I know we all want fresh blood in this organization and Hexy looks like heir apparrent to the GM spot...but he was a Flyer....would he be considered one of the good ole boys? Or because he was in LA for a bit he can look at this with a new fresh perspective. Just thinking out loud here.

I've got no more answers for this team........Seriously how much more restraint and patience do we give this team????

[shawno]

What next? Holgrem, Lavy & McCarthy gone, now! Every year it's the same under this crew, clearly the philosphy is for the defense to give away the blueline on the rush. Who does this? This stopped as a defensive approach 30 years ago. Enough, fire all 3. Mullen, Berube & Reese to stay on.

[hf101]

What next? Holgrem, Lavy & McCarthy gone, now! Every year it's the same under this crew, clearly the philosphy is for the defense to give away the blueline on the rush. Who does this? This stopped as a defensive approach 30 years ago. Enough, fire all 3. Mullen, Berube & Reese to stay on.

 

Welcome Shawno,

 

Berube and Mullen aren't on my list of Coaches to keep.  The Flyers need a new game plan without the same old, dump, chase and grind.

[jammer2]

@hf101  This team needs a Hitch clone, his style/scheme best suits our present roster....minus his entourage of course....lol. We need a defense first philosophy, one that barely sends in a forecheck and sits back in the neutral zone....boring...extremely boring, but the only way this team can make the playoffs.

[canoli]

The team is not clicking but the good news there's only one reason why - because there is no team yet there's just guys wearing the same sweater.

 

"They're not clicking" is actually good news compared to a lot of other teams.  I'm not minimizing it believe me, "clicking" is everything to a team, it's the difference between nearly every play in the game. A blind pass isn't blind when you know where your linemates are. Drawing the double-team is a good thing, it's an advantage when you can count on puck support and know where it will be; otherwise it's a TO. Luke Schenn tonight, he doesn't even look up the middle if he sees more than just Couturier standing alone between the circles...etc.

 

So I hate trying your patience telling you to have patience but honestly that's what Flyers' fans need right now. The fact is we are potentially way better than we were last year (or the year before). Potentially, yes, but at least now the potential is actually there. It's early but it looks like Homer made the right moves this summer. Now it's up to them all to figure out how to mesh and make a hockey team.

 

It's been 3 games. They'll get it, they'll start learning each other's tendencies etc. We've got some good, strong leader-types who will hurry the process along.

 

I'm as disappointed as you all are; it's no fun going 0-3. We can only hang in there and believe that a T-E-A-M will take shape. I certainly do. When it does we'll be competitive again.

 

Funny thing is we actually saw the Flyers clicking for about 30 minutes opening night.... They were loose, confident, hungry to make an impression... going hard, making crisp passes. Then the Leafs woke up, turned up the pressure and almost all of the Flyers tried to handle it by going it alone... which of course is a recipe for disaster unless you're on a tennis court maybe. They found out 2 important things opening night, two things that apparently will take awhile to sink in: 1) they can't win their shifts by themselves, going it alone and 2) to look good, to win hockey games they will have to get to know their teammates far better than they do now.

 

 

 

 

 

[shawno]

Welcome Shawno,

 

Berube and Mullen aren't on my list of Coaches to keep.  The Flyers need a new game plan without the same old, dump, chase and grind.

 

True enough, but my line of thinking is that cleaning out your staff completely during the season just wouldn't be wise. The assessment of Berube, Mullen & Reese can be done during the off-season.

[ruxpin]

The fact is we are potentially way better than we were last year (or the year before).

 

I'm sorry.  Based on what????

 

I'd love to have some of whatever you're on, but I have to go to work in the morning and have my wits about me (no fun being bored without wits).

 

I'd love to listen to the "patience, let them gel" routine, but I've been listening to that same crap for years.  This team isn't better than last year.  It's the same damn thing.  Sure, a couple additions and a couple subtractions.

 

We amnestied one old hasbeen so we could sign the old hasbeen some other team amnestied for the same exact reason.

 

We signed an old aging defenseman because we already had one and he was lonely.

 

We amnestied a mediocre goaltender and signed another mediocre goaltender.  Granted, at a much cheaper cost so consider it a win, but the product on the ice is still mediocre.

 

Where the hell are we better?  ON the ice???

 

I see exactly the same thing that brought the result of not even sniffing the playoffs last year.  The same exact thing.  Why?

 

1)  A poorly constructed team that some here delude themselves into thinking is better than it is because something good in orange and black to compare it to is slipping into the cobwebs of distant memory.

2) A poorly coached team

3) A poorly managed team

4) An AWOL captain

 

 

Let's change the damn thing once and for all.  I was really hoping the Clarke/Hitch exorcism a few years ago was it.  But we instead hired Clarkelite and have hired first the baker and now the candlestick maker for coaches.

 

This team is going nowhere.   3 games in is simply calendar.  The reality, however, is what it is.