Is it time to start dumping salary?

[FD19372]

I say it is. Hartnell, Coburn, Meszaros, and Luke Schenn, just to name a few, are simply taking up space. I'm not ready to give up Couturier yet, but for the right player I would be willing to even deal him.The veterans who have been here for over 4 or 5 years need to be traded for future talent, and we need to let the young kids like Laughton play, including giving kids from the AHL time to develop their game.  Who cares about the team's record? Anyone who has watched 5 minutes of this team knows they are going nowhere. The last 6 minutes of the Carolina game was pretty much an encapsulation of their entire season. I know their salaries are a problem, but there has to be a team out there in need of veterans, that will give us something. Maybe they will fit in better somewhere else, and we could have a very good team in a few years. It's better to have a sucky team with a solid plan and purpose rather than what seems to be now, which is having none at all.  Thought this would be another fire Holmgren thread, eh? (I still think he should be).

[murraycraven]

I will ask this question:  Who is going to take on that salary?

[fanaticV3.0]

I say it is. Hartnell, Coburn, Meszaros, and Luke Schenn, just to name a few, are simply taking up space. I'm not ready to give up Couturier yet, but for the right player I would be willing to even deal him.The veterans who have been here for over 4 or 5 years need to be traded for future talent, and we need to let the young kids like Laughton play, including giving kids from the AHL time to develop their game.  Who cares about the team's record? Anyone who has watched 5 minutes of this team knows they are going nowhere. The last 6 minutes of the Carolina game was pretty much an encapsulation of their entire season. I know their salaries are a problem, but there has to be a team out there in need of veterans, that will give us something. Maybe they will fit in better somewhere else, and we could have a very good team in a few years. It's better to have a sucky team with a solid plan and purpose rather than what seems to be now, which is having none at all.  Thought this would be another fire Holmgren thread, eh? (I still think he should be).

 

Sorry, but the last thing this team needs right now is an all out youth movement. This team's core (forwards and goaltending at least) is mostly younger players right now and the team is tanking. The same thing happened in 06-07 when they made youth the focal point of the team. I'm not against youth at all, but you can't throw out a roster of kids and expect them to simply start winning. I would focus on youth, but I think it's very important to have several guys on the team in their late 20s and early 30s to serve as a veteran presence.

 

I agree with you about some of the guys you want to move, but if you trade them all for a bunch of 20 year olds, given the youth's already fragile state on this team, that isn't going to help.

 

I'm with you on Couturier. I'm not in a rush to get rid of him, but for the right deal, I absolutely move him. No hesitation.

[TimKerrFan12]

@FD19372

Yeah I am all for going for a complete youth movement. Maybe we can pull a Pittsburgh and get McDavid and other top picks for the next 3 years.

[activestick]

Yes. Let the rebuild begin.  Let's take the lead of the Pens & Oilers and start tanking the next 2 or 3 seasons for high picks.  I'm not sure there is any other choice?  Obviously, there has been a gross misjudgement of talent on this team.

[off_the_post]

We had the chance to rebuild but signed lecavier and street instead furthering the issue.

[fanaticV3.0]

We had the chance to rebuild but signed lecavier and street instead furthering the issue.

 

That's a pretty stupid statement. One players does not negate a youth movement. Not to mention, he's pretty much their best forward right now.

[murraycraven]

Oilers and start tanking the next 2 or 3 seasons for high picks

 

Has not worked out in the Oilers favor to date...

[activestick]

 

 

I'm with you on Couturier. I'm not in a rush to get rid of him, but for the right deal, I absolutely move him. No hesitation.

I don't think you would get anything for him.  All the other teams see the quicksand he skates in. 

[activestick]

Has not worked out in the Oilers favor to date.

And shame on them.  The GM that made all of those picks is no longer there.

[murraycraven]

And shame on them.  The GM that made all of those picks is no longer there.

 

agreed...   I am scared to think what Homer would do with those picks!

[fanaticV3.0]

I don't think you would get anything for him.  All the other teams see the quicksand he skates in. 

 

He's 20 and was drafted high. I don't particularly like him, but he's far from "bust" territory.

[off_the_post]

That's a pretty stupid statement. One players does not negate a youth movement. Not to mention, he's pretty much their best forward right now.

That is a very stupid line of thinking. They sacrificed long term gain for short term pain by signing them. They expected a short term gain out of the signings of which is not coining to fruition. Thus there is now both short and long term pain and the organization is in a terrible position. Sure vlc is their best player for the past month but that has gotten the team squat! And where does that leave them in three years? Is he still the best or is the team hamstrung by both of the contracts of vlc and streit?

[FD19372]

Sorry, but the last thing this team needs right now is an all out youth movement. This team's core (forwards and goaltending at least) is mostly younger players right now and the team is tanking. The same thing happened in 06-07 when they made youth the focal point of the team. I'm not against youth at all, but you can't throw out a roster of kids and expect them to simply start winning. I would focus on youth, but I think it's very important to have several guys on the team in their late 20s and early 30s to serve as a veteran presence.

 

I agree with you about some of the guys you want to move, but if you trade them all for a bunch of 20 year olds, given the youth's already fragile state on this team, that isn't going to help.

 

I'm with you on Couturier. I'm not in a rush to get rid of him, but for the right deal, I absolutely move him. No hesitation.

Don't you think that part of the chronic injury problems this team faces, and has faced for years, is that it tries to play a style suited for younger players and then goes out and signs ones in their mid to upper thirties? Their organizational philsophy needs to adjust.  I say accumulate enough talent (and maybe suck it up and stink  for two years) and let the talent grow and gel together.  They got better after 06-07 in part because they let some of their young talent grow (sorry Joni Pitkanen, not you), then added veteran pieces.  Why have a minor league team at all? They have NOTHING to lose by letting the young kids gain experience (if the team indeed trusts its own talent evaluation). 

[King Knut]

We're stuck with all of them until deadline time I would think.

No one's gong to take a "flyer" on any member of this team until then.  (sorry for the pun).

 

I still think Coburn is worth while.  People here hate him, say he's on the ice for every goal against.  That's because he's on the ice A LOT and he's on the ice against the best lines.

 

I'm far more pissed with Timmo, Gus and Streit.  These are the guys who are supposed to be the outlet pass kings.  The guys that are supposed to be the spark the transition and hence the offense is built on.

 

Sorry to say, but this team hasn't had a good transition game since Stevens was fired.

 

It wasn't important to Lavvy in 2010 because he was all about the fore check.  But then Homer dealt all the fore checkers and Lavvy didnt' seem to be able to adapt.

 

Berube doesn't seem to think there is such a thing as a transition game.  Just keep the other guys from scoring (always a good idea) and then... well then he just kinda trails off there, doesn't he?

 

 say it is. Hartnell, Coburn, Meszaros, and Luke Schenn, just to name a few, are simply taking up space. I'm not ready to give up Couturier yet, but for the right player I would be willing to even deal him.The veterans who have been here for over 4 or 5 years need to be traded for future talent, and we need to let the young kids like Laughton play, including giving kids from the AHL time to develop their game.  Who cares about the team's record? Anyone who has watched 5 minutes of this team knows they are going nowhere. The last 6 minutes of the Carolina game was pretty much an encapsulation of their entire season. I know their salaries are a problem, but there has to be a team out there in need of veterans, that will give us something. Maybe they will fit in better somewhere else, and we could have a very good team in a few years. It's better to have a sucky team with a solid

 

 

plan and purpose rather than what seems to be now, which is having none at all.  Thought this would be another fire Holmgren thread, eh? (I still think he should be).

[King Knut]

This team tried to play a style?

 

Sorry you lost me right there.  This team hasn't had a style or a system since 2010 when Lavvy made the forecheck king. Before that Stevens had a decent transition game going built mostly around Timmo.  Since the departure of Stevens and then (my guess is) Lappy, this team has been an absolute mess.

 

There was some hope with Jagr as a stabilizing factor two years ago, but that seemed almost accidental.  Since then, it's been varying degrees of chaos and garbage.

 

 

Don't you think that part of the chronic injury problems this team faces, and has faced for years, is that it tries to play a style suited for younger players and then goes out and signs ones in their mid to upper thirties?

[fanaticV3.0]

Don't you think that part of the chronic injury problems this team faces, and has faced for years, is that it tries to play a style suited for younger players and then goes out and signs ones in their mid to upper thirties? Their organizational philsophy needs to adjust.  I say accumulate enough talent (and maybe suck it up and stink  for two years) and let the talent grow and gel together.  They got better after 06-07 in part because they let some of their young talent grow (sorry Joni Pitkanen, not you), then added veteran pieces.  Why have a minor league team at all? They have NOTHING to lose by letting the young kids gain experience (if the team indeed trusts its own talent evaluation). 

 

Timonen was 32 when he signed here. Briere was 30, Hartnell was 25, Pronger was 35, Hatcher was 33, Talbot was 27, Lecavalier was 33. I'm sure there is a ton of other guys they have signed as FAs over the last several years, but I'm just going off of who I can think of off the top of my head and guys who did or were supposed to play a key role. The average aged of these men is 30.

 

They got better after the 06-07 because they went out and signed Briere, Timonen, and Hartnell, not because the youth "gelled" after one off season. They received a shot in the arm when they signed Pronger, who was arguably the single biggest reason they made the cup that year.

 

It has to be a balance. Going all young has been disastrous for this club. The Vinny signing (years aside) was exactly how they should be thinking: young forwards surrounded by some veterans. The problem right now is not the veterans, it's the young guys not pulling their weight.

[aziz]

It has to be a balance. Going all young has been disastrous for this club. The Vinny signing (years aside) was exactly how they should be thinking: young forwards surrounded by some veterans. The problem right now is not the veterans, it's the young guys not pulling their weight.

 

well said.  going all young is disastrous for most clubs.  people point at pittsburgh and chicago and say that's how you do it, except they have to ignore florida, NYI, columbus, nashville, winnipeg/atlanta, calgary, and edmonton to arrive at that conclusion.  it is usually a (permanent) mess.

[activestick]

agreed...   I am scared to think what Homer would do with those picks!

yeah, that's scary.

[flyercanuck]

Pittsburgh had the luck of drafting 2 of the best players in the world. That is the reason they are good. Take those two guys away and they are just like any other team.

 

 Edmonton has had the misfortune of picking similiar players each draft. They've got Taylor Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, MPS in their previous 4 drafts (not counting last year when they got Nurse who should help bigtime down the road) All those guys bring basically the same style to the game. There's no grinder/skill setup/sniper line which is what generally works.

 

 Look at the Avs who got probably a better player in MacKinnon than any of those Oiler #1s, a good blue collar leader in Landeskog, a skilled big body who can score in Duchene and traded another 1st pick for a goalie.

 

 Luck in the years you're picking #1 have a bigger influence than the amount of #1s. Getting 1st overall this year and picking Reinhart or Ekblad isn't going to be anywhere near as impactful as drafting McDavid will be next year. We all know how huge of an impact JVR had with the Flyers as a #2. He's become a better player, but he'll never be a Malkin.

 

 As for the 2007 Flyers sucking because of "youth"...they had Knuble, Zhitnik, Forsberg, Kapanen, Sanderson, Hatcher, Robitaille, Nedved, Gauthier, Esche and Rathje all over the age of 30 on that team.

[doom88]

Gus, Read, and Bobrovsky were also UFA signings. Tunnel vision isn't a fair assessment in my opinion.

[radoran]

well said.  going all young is disastrous for most clubs.  people point at pittsburgh and chicago and say that's how you do it, except they have to ignore florida, NYI, columbus, nashville, winnipeg/atlanta, calgary, and edmonton to arrive at that conclusion.  it is usually a (permanent) mess.

 

People who point to Pittsburgh forget the efforts the team went to to find "veteran support" for Crosby. Bill Guerin, et. al.

 

Those with Chicago miss Boynton, Hossa, Sopel, Madden, Campbell and, yes, Sharp.

 

Chicago is one of the "younger" teams to win the Cup, but it wasn't a fluke and wasn't for lack of veteran presence.

 

But, like the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" you're certainly not playing the good bet.

[flyersfan83]

People who point to Pittsburgh forget the efforts the team went to to find "veteran support" for Crosby. Bill Guerin, et. al.

 

Those with Chicago miss Boynton, Hossa, Sopel, Madden, Campbell and, yes, Sharp.

 

Chicago is one of the "younger" teams to win the Cup, but it wasn't a fluke and wasn't for lack of veteran presence.

 

But, like the "make the playoffs and anything can happen" you're certainly not playing the good bet.

 

 

that's why the flyers are so bad because there's no vet presence for giroux, im talking about getting a good first winger for giroux like with jagr. i think i should say the same for courts and schenn, there's no vet presence for them. vinny is a good sign for us but schenn shouldnt be a winger, he should be a third line center.

 

the youth is struggling because there's no vets that will help them.

[SwedeFly]

@flyersfan83

"the youth is struggling because there's no vets that will help them."

Marian Hossa's and Jaromir Jagr's don't just grow on trees.

Besides, we had veteran wingers, ie: Gagne, Talbot, Knuble ....

Anyway, I agree with your statement that we are missing a veteran presence, but that means we would have to deal a young winger like Read or Simmonds to free up space for a top for a top 2 overpriced veteran. And as it stands, we're not in any position to make a run for the cup anytime soon so a veteran presence is rather pointless at this time.

[murraycraven]

@flyersfan83

"the youth is struggling because there's no vets that will help them."

Marian Hossa's and Jaromir Jagr's don't just grow on trees.

Besides, we had veteran wingers, ie: Gagne, Talbot, Knuble ....

Anyway, I agree with your statement that we are missing a veteran presence, but that means we would have to deal a young winger like Read or Simmonds to free up space for a top for a top 2 overpriced veteran. And as it stands, we're not in any position to make a run for the cup anytime soon so a veteran presence is rather pointless at this time.

 

 

Agree Swede...  this type of veteran is not something that is readily available and frankly I dont think it would turn this Team into a contender.  I rather hold onto Read and Simmonds at this point and let the growing pains teach the lesson.