brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 found Meltzer's observation about putting VLC into the #1 C role to be an interesting one - one that I had advanced months ago. They've "tried" it for a few shifts but never for any length of time. I find that interesting as well. But I ask you this: why should we disrupt the play of our franchise player, our heart and soul, and captain of this team for an unnecessary aging vet signing? To me, it would make more sense to buy out Vinny or try to trade him and take what you can get rather than do that to Giroux. Sure, it's not out of the question that Giroux adapts. But why should *he* have to adapt to a guy who is not part of the core and shouldn't be here in the first place? Would the Pens move Crosby or Malkin to wing to fit Vinny? Would the Isles move Tavares to wing? Would anyone else move their captain, and franchise player out of a position where he is currently excelling to fit Vinny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 If the Flyers don't make the playoffs, which is a very real possibility, I think Homer's gone.It fits, and it gives the right cover for a 'transition' to Hextall. Agree with you here. Flyers miss playoffs 2 years in a row, and he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 God. I thought signing VLC was going to be one huge cluster from the moment I heard about it. But this is worse and sooner than I even thought. Yelling that they shouldn't have signed him, while true (and of the no **** obvious variety) doesn't help going forward. I'd try him at center on the top line and drop Hartnell to the fourth line (or the third). Ultimately, I have no faith this will work. I'm sure you could probably get Garth Snow to trade back the 2nd for Vinny. Getting Vinny to waive the NMC to go to long island is another story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off_the_post Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I am all for VLC moving anywhere up/down the line up. I had even pondered if he could become a defenseman which is obviously absurd. I was going to start another crap of VLC thread a week or so ago and then he scored an OT winner so that bought him some time. I am very happy to see Meltzer make a point about his play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 If the Flyers don't make the playoffs, which is a very real possibility, I think Homer's gone.It fits, and it gives the right cover for a 'transition' to Hextall. I hope your right Brelic... Homer is loyal to a fault though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I find that interesting as well. But I ask you this: why should we disrupt the play of our franchise player, our heart and soul, and captain of this team for an unnecessary aging vet signing? To me, it would make more sense to buy out Vinny or try to trade him and take what you can get rather than do that to Giroux. Sure, it's not out of the question that Giroux adapts. But why should *he* have to adapt to a guy who is not part of the core and shouldn't be here in the first place?Would the Pens move Crosby or Malkin to wing to fit Vinny? Would the Isles move Tavares to wing? Would anyone else move their captain, and franchise player out of a position where he is currently excelling to fit Vinny? I would do that as well, but assuming they don't I think that's really the only viable place for a $4.5M guy in his position. When you have a round hole and a square peg, sometimes you just got to keep hitting it. As for G, I will restate for the record that he was never a center before three years ago. There's not a lot of "adaption" to be made - he was heralded as a "playmaking wing" and played that role in Philly before they traded away two centermen and needed a face for the top line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'd try him at center on the top line and drop Hartnell to the fourth line (or the third). Ultimately, I have no faith this will work. Why not try him on G's wing (for longer than the half-game experiments here and there)? If he's going to bring down his linemates, you'd gotta think that Jake and G are best equipped to find a way to make it work. As for Hartnell, why not move him back with Schenn and Simmer? They were red hot for a while before Vinny came back. That leaves Raffl/Coots/Read and Rinaldo/Hall/Downie. I dunno, I like those line ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 As for G, I will restate for the record that he was never a center before three years ago. There's not a lot of "adaption" to be made - he was heralded as a "playmaking wing" and played that role in Philly before they traded away two centermen and needed a face for the top line. That's a very good point and not one that I glossed over. My conclusion was that, even if Giroux has been a center for the past 3 years only, he is currently excelling in that role, and is the BEST or SECOND BEST point-getter in the NHL since Dec something-or-other. A coach that messes with that smack in the middle of a fight-for-your-playoff-lives is a little too accommodating for the aging elephant in Homer's room. I'm all for experimenting, but I think Berube needs to tread lightly to not disrupt one of the most productive lines in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Why not try him on G's wing (for longer than the half-game experiments here and there)? If he's going to bring down his linemates, you'd gotta think that Jake and G are best equipped to find a way to make it work.As for Hartnell, why not move him back with Schenn and Simmer? They were red hot for a while before Vinny came back. That leaves Raffl/Coots/Read and Rinaldo/Hall/Downie.I dunno, I like those line ideas.I like your lines but would put Vinny at center. He's done more than enough to prove he sucks on the wing. Conversely, Giroux has proven to be very productive on the wing. I'd rather two players playing positions where they're both decent rather than drag Giroux down by putting a complete suck ass on his wing (ironic that I'm not talking about Hartnell, isn't it?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I like your lines but would put Vinny at center. He's done more than enough to prove he sucks on the wing. Conversely, Giroux has proven to be very productive on the wing.I'd rather two players playing positions where they're both decent rather than drag Giroux down by putting a complete suck ass on his wing (ironic that I'm not talking about Hartnell, isn't it?). Yeah, I hear what you're saying. You gotta think that Vinny will snap out of it at some point. Maybe not this season, but it can't really be 4 more years of this, can it? Berube has actually pushed most of the right buttons this year. I'm especially impressed with his focus on defense. Even though we lost last night, I thought our defensive game was very strong. So, maybe he will find a way to make this work with Vinny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Maybe not this season, but it can't really be 4 more years of this, can it? Yes, it is possible that Vinny plays this exact same way for the 4 remaining years of his contract. He did pass the team physical when he got here...but in reality, we got a player that gave what was left in his body to another organization. I just have this sinking feeling that his 4 years here will be injury filled, and thus he will never be at 100% to fully contribute. Even healthy the guy dissapears for weeks at a time, Metzler alluded to as much when he was first acquired. It will be a very forgetful 4 years, and sadly, we will probably never see the ace that played in Tampa Bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yes, it is possible that Vinny plays this exact same way for the 4 remaining years of his contract. He did pass the team physical when he got here...but in reality, we got a player that gave what was left in his body to another organization. I just have this sinking feeling that his 4 years here will be injury filled, and thus he will never be at 100% to fully contribute. Even healthy the guy dissapears for weeks at a time, Metzler alluded to as much when he was first acquired. It will be a very forgetful 4 years, and sadly, we will probably never see the ace that played in Tampa Bay. I think I've seen this movie a couple times before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I thought we would be having this conversation in 2 years...and that would have been fine with me. I wasn't thrilled with the signing but I was not thinking it was terrible either.Maybe Slats wants to "get the band back together" and he'll trade for VLC, around the draft. The alarming thing that I've noticed and I'm sure many others have is how easily that Schenn line gets hemmed in the d-zone, it often looks like a power play for the other team, I used to attribute it to 10 needing to work on taking draws , and he does, but he hustles back there Simmonds too those guys you can see battling. VLC not so much.I wonder what can really be done about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I wonder what can really be done about it? Push VLC in front of a Shea Weber slap shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheslot Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 don't think they have a buy out to use . !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 @mojo1917 I've noticed Vinny will have 2-4 good shifts per game, and there is usually good scoring chances involved, the rest are uneventful floating type of shifts. He's very inconstant and sets a poor example for the young impressionable kids. Exactly the opposite you want out of your UFA former captain acquisition. This whole thing will get ugly before it's all said and done....if the fans of Philly *really* want you gone, they can make things pretty uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I've noticed Vinny will have 2-4 good shifts per game, and there is usually good scoring chances involved, the rest are uneventful floating type of shifts. He's very inconstant and sets a poor example for the young impressionable kids. You mean, exactly the opposite from the all-star *winger* that elevated Giroux to elite status, and who awed the whole team with his incredible workout ethic on and off the ice? Oh, and he was *still* cheaper than this chump, and has more points than anyone on this team not named Giroux. But, once again, grass is greener everywhere else. At this point, I've just about conditioned myself to accept that Brayden Schenn or Scott Laughton will be traded to make space for Vinny. Schenn solves an immediate problem whereas moving Laughton prevents another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Brayden Schenn or Scott Laughton will be traded to make space for Vinny I'm really fearful that we're not looking at an "or." My fear is that it is both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm really fearful that we're not looking at an "or." My fear is that it is both. It better be one heckuva return if it's both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 That's a very good point and not one that I glossed over. My conclusion was that, even if Giroux has been a center for the past 3 years only, he is currently excelling in that role, and is the BEST or SECOND BEST point-getter in the NHL since Dec something-or-other. A coach that messes with that smack in the middle of a fight-for-your-playoff-lives is a little too accommodating for the aging elephant in Homer's room. I'm all for experimenting, but I think Berube needs to tread lightly to not disrupt one of the most productive lines in the NHL. Why do they "need" to do something? Well, because they have a $4.5M boat anchor that apparently needs a line to be effective. We know they're not going to put him on the fourth - no matter what Meltzer says - and that he's weighed down the 2nd and 3rd when he's been on it. Again, this isn't The Best Plan Ever (despite my earlier advocacy for it) but it is A Possibly Good Plan. Would I do it rightnow? No, you're in a playoff push. The time for "experimenting with lines" was in camp (which, apparently, never happened) and early in the season (when they were panicked beyond belief). Again - VLC is a square peg on a team with a whole bunch of round holes. @mojo1917 I've noticed Vinny will have 2-4 good shifts per game, and there is usually good scoring chances involved, the rest are uneventful floating type of shifts. He's very inconstant and sets a poor example for the young impressionable kids. Exactly the opposite you want out of your UFA former captain acquisition. This whole thing will get ugly before it's all said and done....if the fans of Philly *really* want you gone, they can make things pretty uncomfortable. You're better than me, then. There are games where I hear Lecavalier's name in the second or third period and think "wait, he's playing today?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 They are never going to put him on the fourth line, nor should they. I'm surprised a professional journalist actually suggested it, because it's just not the kind of thing that happens very often. The fourth line is not a place for your struggling scorers. The only example I can think of is when Hitch put Williams on the fourth and that benefited nobody at all. He didn't dig himself out of the hole, it didn't help the team, and he was gone not long after that (and people still complain about). I don't see him improving by playing with Hall and Rinaldo. The only realistic option is to move him back to his natural position. Since Giroux is more established as a player, it makes more sense moving him to wing rather than the two kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Push VLC in front of a Shea Weber slap shot. judging by the way he has been skating this year we might get lucky and he will fall into a slapshot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 The only realistic option is to move him back to his natural position. Since Giroux is more established as a player, it makes more sense moving him to wing rather than the two kids. This! If the young kids are truly the future core then you have to keep them locked into center. Move G over... pretty sad that you need to find a spot for a player of VLC talents - well, past talents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 They are never going to put him on the fourth line, nor should they. I'm surprised a professional journalist actually suggested it, because it's just not the kind of thing that happens very often. The fourth line is not a place for your struggling scorers. The only example I can think of is when Hitch put Williams on the fourth and that benefited nobody at all. He didn't dig himself out of the hole, it didn't help the team, and he was gone not long after that (and people still complain about). I don't see him improving by playing with Hall and Rinaldo. The only realistic option is to move him back to his natural position. Since Giroux is more established as a player, it makes more sense moving him to wing rather than the two kids. I'm also surprised that Meltzer would actually suggest that (though he probably doesn't really believe it himself). You're right, no coach is going to put a guy with Lecavalier's accomplishments and stature on the 4th line. It would be an embarrassment to everyone from Homer to Berube to Vinny. A buy-out is a great option but I'm also pretty sure will not happen - at least not for a couple more years if things don't change. He has very little value in a trade, plus he controls his destiny. So that's not a viable option either. Homer painted himself into a corner with this contract, and the Flyers will just have to live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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