Umberger

[off_the_post]

I didnt really notice anything from him though didnt have any expectations either. Does he get bought out this year? Does he score 20 goals? Is he a selke finalist? Personally i would rather they move hime to the fourth line except that brings that line down. Anybody else get a better impression from preseason than i did?

[flyercanuck]

@off_the_post

 

His bad contract runs out before Hartnells....that is all.

[ruxpin]

@off_the_post

His bad contract runs out before Hartnells....that is all.

I'm on my phone and don't feel like looking. Is his contact this season AND next or is he done in June?

If it's next year as well, I Mogilny him. I completely appreciate the contract reasons for the trade but he's entirely worthless as a player.

This year, fine; we're going nowhere anyway. But if his contact extends to next season waive him and teach him the lyrics to "Allentown."

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

 

Good news Rux...its this year, next year AND the year after. Hartnell has two more after that.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

Good news Rux...its this year, next year AND the year after. Hartnell has two more after that.

Oh dear god. Mogilny him NOW. I was so happy they got rid of him the first time. Again, I completely understand the trade, but what a waste of a roster spot.

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

 

Think how happy you'll be in the 2017/18 season though!

[Samifan]

Agreed, I saw nothing from him during the preseason and do not recall hearing his name often. I would rather see Umberger on the 4th line and have Akeson move up to play with VLC. Akeson has show steady offensive skills and may be just the player to create opportunities for VLC to finish.

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin

Think how happy you'll be in the 2017/18 season though!

Will VLC still be here?

[PhilsFanDrew]

Agreed, I saw nothing from him during the preseason and do not recall hearing his name often. I would rather see Umberger on the 4th line and have Akeson move up to play with VLC. Akeson has show steady offensive skills and may be just the player to create opportunities for VLC to finish.

 

I totally agree with you.   I actually think a line of Akeson/VLC/Raffl could be quite good.   The only thing good you can say about Umberger is that he is a disciplined player and he doesn't make too many boneheaded plays.   But he has no discernable skill set that even makes this team marginally better.    I understand the trade was just a salary dump so I don't fault Hextall for making it.   His predecessor really didn't give him a ton of options to move salary.  

[flyercanuck]

Will VLC still be here?

 

Think about how happy you'll be in 2018/19.

[aziz]

The only thing good you can say about Umberger is that he is a disciplined player and he doesn't make too many boneheaded plays.   But he has no discernable skill set that even makes this team marginally better.

 

i've been around flyers boards for some 15 years now, so i don't know why this still surprises me, but....really?  the guy can play all three forward positions, has 5 20+ goal seasons under his belt (6 18+ seasons), has been a consistent .5 p/g player from day 1 of his career, is defensively reliable, is more physical than most (though far less than some, obviously), and has no particularly glaring weakness to his game.  no, he doesn't have a particular strong point to his game, either, but there is nothing wrong with just being well rounded.  in the worst case, this is a thoroughly average NHL player.  statistically above average, but there is enough chaff at the bottom of that barrel to not make a real case of that...but still.

 

amazingly great pick up?  no.  silver bullet for the team's problems?  no.  cornerstone of the team going forward?  no.  useful player who adds experienced multi-role depth to any part of the flyer's forward lineup needed?  definitely.  

 

and yet, he ought to be bought out, sent to the 4th line to get 5 minutes per night, buried in the minors, has no discernible skill set, is a waste of a roster spot, is entirely worthless as a player.

 

so, here is my question:  is it a flyers' fan thing, or a hockey fan thing in general, for players to either be superstars or complete and utter garbage, with nothing in between?  is it just philadelphia, or is it people from everywhere who give zero value to capable mid-roster players?

[DaGreatGazoo]

Flyers can only "buy" 900K of cap space by burying him in Allentown. People hate him-? Have a few million in dead cap space for 3 seasons on him. Then watch what happens. LOL.

That trade was about the last 2 years of Hartnell's deal primarily. Hextall said as much when the trade happened. In the short term, it's a wash IMO. Hartnell scored more, but took more penalties and is more

one dimensional than RJ.

[ruxpin]

i've been around flyers boards for some 15 years now, so i don't know why this still surprises me, but....really? the guy can play all three forward positions, has 5 20+ goal seasons under his belt (6 18+ seasons), has been a consistent .5 p/g player from day 1 of his career, is defensively reliable, is more physical than most (though far less than some, obviously), and has no particularly glaring weakness to his game. no, he doesn't have a particular strong point to his game, either, but there is nothing wrong with just being well rounded. in the worst case, this is a thoroughly average NHL player. statistically above average, but there is enough chaff at the bottom of that barrel to not make a real case of that...but still.

amazingly great pick up? no. silver bullet for the team's problems? no. cornerstone of the team going forward? no. useful player who adds experienced multi-role depth to any part of the flyer's forward lineup needed? definitely.

and yet, he ought to be bought out, sent to the 4th line to get 5 minutes per night, buried in the minors, has no discernible skill set, is a waste of a roster spot, is entirely worthless as a player.

so, here is my question: is it a flyers' fan thing, or a hockey fan thing in general, for players to either be superstars or complete and utter garbage, with nothing in between? is it just philadelphia, or is it people from everywhere who give zero value to capable mid-roster players?

The only way to answer that

(in this case) regarding whether it's a Philly thing is that he was about to be bought out in Columbus and while the Jackets were pushing to make the playoffs he was a healthy scratch four times. And then they trade him for an albatross of a contract in Scott Hartnell.

So while sometimes it is Philly, in this case Ohio didn't think much of him either.

Add to that he's looked poor in the preseason. Previous numbers aside he's an extremely meh player who makes way too much for his mehishness. He's slow and adds nothing to any line. You pointed out correctly that he doesn't greatly hurt a line, either, but "he didn't hurt anything" isn't exactly a great epitaph.

That said, the idea he's blocking prospects is a weak one since otherwise Hartnell would still be here blocking prospects even longer.

I wasn't a huge fan the first time around and now he's older, slower, and costs more. It could be worse; we could still have Downie.

[OccamsRazor]

i've been around flyers boards for some 15 years now, so i don't know why this still surprises me, but....really?  the guy can play all three forward positions, has 5 20+ goal seasons under his belt (6 18+ seasons), has been a consistent .5 p/g player from day 1 of his career, is defensively reliable, is more physical than most (though far less than some, obviously), and has no particularly glaring weakness to his game.  no, he doesn't have a particular strong point to his game, either, but there is nothing wrong with just being well rounded.  in the worst case, this is a thoroughly average NHL player.  statistically above average, but there is enough chaff at the bottom of that barrel to not make a real case of that...but still.
 
amazingly great pick up?  no.  silver bullet for the team's problems?  no.  cornerstone of the team going forward?  no.  useful player who adds experienced multi-role depth to any part of the flyer's forward lineup needed?  definitely.  

 

And to just piggyback on what you just said 8 powerplay goals (that is one more than Johansen) last year to boot as well as a solid PKer.

[OccamsRazor]

Hartnell scored more, but took more penalties and is more
one dimensional than RJ.

 

I think RJ would win that battle of who scored more too if he played with the likes of Giroux, Jake and even Jagr.

[doom88]

The only way to answer that

(in this case) regarding whether it's a Philly thing is that he was about to be bought out in Columbus and while the Jackets were pushing to make the playoffs he was a healthy scratch four times. And then they trade him for an albatross of a contract in Scott Hartnell.

So while sometimes it is Philly, in this case Ohio didn't think much of him either.

Add to that he's looked poor in the preseason. Previous numbers aside he's an extremely meh player who makes way too much for his mehishness. He's slow and adds nothing to any line. You pointed out correctly that he doesn't greatly hurt a line, either, but "he didn't hurt anything" isn't exactly a great epitaph.

That said, the idea he's blocking prospects is a weak one since otherwise Hartnell would still be here blocking prospects even longer.

I wasn't a huge fan the first time around and now he's older, slower, and costs more. It could be worse; we could still have Downie.

Well, he's not THE man. He lost his linemates, gained new management, and in turn, they kind of screwed him. I don't blame him for struggling to fit in. I agree with @aziz in that he's a decent player. I think he needs to be utilized properly though. He's not a stud.

The CBJ were just over him, and it was reflected on ice.

[murraycraven]

30 goals... Bank on it.

[murraycraven]

Well, he's not THE man. He lost his linemates, gained new management, and in turn, they kind of screwed him. I don't blame him for struggling to fit in. I agree with @aziz in that he's a decent player. I think he needs to be utilized properly though. He's not a stud.

The CBJ were just over him, and it was reflected on ice.

And by being a healthy scratch at the most important time of the CBJ season...

[aziz]

@ruxpin

I don't know what happened in Columbus with the healthy scratches. Given they had some actual total scrubs in that roster, I don't think it was a "everyone else is better than him" situation. Conflict with the coach, maybe? I don't know.

As for why they'd want Hartnell and his bad contract, I'm thinking marketing. He instantly becomes the best sound bite and generally most entertaining player. My girlfriend doesn't watch sports at all (she calls hockey "sportspucking" to differentiate it from "sportsballing", which is everything else....all of it together is "sportsing"), but she'd watch if Hartnell was playing. They essentially replaced offensive contribution one for one and vastly improved their TV spots. For a team in Columbus' situation, that's a real concern.

Umberger IS meh. He is. I think he's at the high end of meh, but still meh. On the other hand, he is meh that can spot in wherever needed and do no worse than meh. There are a lot a lot of nhl players for whom the same cannot be said. That kind of makes him an ideal bottom six player to me. 40 points and defensively safe shifts from the third line? It's meh, but could do a lot worse.

The blocking prospects thing... There will be injuries, the kids will get their time. And as you said, if it weren't umberger, it would have been Hartnell, so no harm no foul there.

I don't know. He's one of those players where I don't understand big reaction in either direction. I mean, he'll do, he's a random cog in the roster, and all teams have those. Just meh.

[ruxpin]

Well, he's not THE man. He lost his linemates, gained new management, and in turn, they kind of screwed him. I don't blame him for struggling to fit in. I agree with @aziz in that he's a decent player. I think he needs to be utilized properly though. He's not a stud.

The CBJ were just over him, and it was reflected on ice.

 

 

I mostly agree with you. And Aziz too, for that matter.

 

My problem with him is largely this TEAM.

No room on the first line.

No room on the second. 

Probably can slide into either of the above in case of injury or in case I'm right that Simmonds and Couturier are not going to jive well.

So, he's on with VLC whom I cannot stand.  I don't like the two of them together.  To be fair, I can't think of a player I'd want next to VLC.  The fourth line may actually be a GOOD spot for him rather than a punishment if we're trying to put together some kind of competent fourth line.  I'm just so frustrated with the mess Holmgren "built."  I know it'll take time.  I just view Umberger as a piece that (Aziz is right) doesn't do any harm but does nothing particularly beneficial either.  He's just an utterly forgettable player.

 

Like Thoresen (hi @hf101)

[ruxpin]

@aziz

 

she calls hockey "sportspucking" to differentiate it from "sportsballing", which is everything else....all of it together is "sportsing"

 

That's awesome!  I don't know her, but I like her.   And I think you're spot on with the Hartnell/marketing thing.  It definitely gives them some character which they've always seemed to lack.

 

I don't know. He's one of those players where I don't understand big reaction in either direction. I mean, he'll do, he's a random cog in the roster, and all teams have those. Just meh

 

I think that's fair.

 

--

From stuff I read at the time, Columbus scratched Umberger because they were trying to go with more speed.  I don't think I buy that, though.  Your guess about player/coach issues is probably as good as any.

[Flyers97]

I thought he was invisible in all of the games I saw this preseason.  I hope he wakes up when the games count, but I don't think that's going to happen...

[AndyS]

I didnt really notice anything from him though didnt have any expectations either. Does he get bought out this year? Does he score 20 goals? Is he a selke finalist? Personally i would rather they move hime to the fourth line except that brings that line down. Anybody else get a better impression from preseason than i did?

 

I literally forgot that he was even on the Flyers' roster.  

[DaGreatGazoo]

I think RJ would win that battle of who scored more too if he played with the likes of Giroux, Jake and even Jagr.

No argument there.

[radoran]

The blocking prospects thing... There will be injuries, the kids will get their time. And as you said, if it weren't umberger, it would have been Hartnell, so no harm no foul there.

For that matter, what prospect is he blocking? He doesn't play on the blue line and I can't think of anyone in tye system off the top of my head that he's "blocking."