jammer2 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 As it stands right now, the Flyers have a total of 8 players who have some sort of NMC or NTC clauses. It works out to 1/3 of the current roster. A wonderful testament to the Gm'ing of the outgoing Homer. However, it's not quite as bad as it seems on the surface. A summary of the trainwrecks..... 1)Chris Pronger...full NMC and a +35 contract to boot- of course, no real bearing on the team, but in retrospect a BRUTAL decision by Homer considering his age and wear and tear. 2)Vinny Lecavalier....A full NMC.....Good Lord. 3)Claude Giroux.... Full NMC, but does not kick in until next year.....not that we would want to trade him away, but a little comforting to know, if something stunning was to float Hexy's way, he could pull the trigger. 4)Braydon Coburn....A modified NTC, meaning he could select a group of teams that he would find acceptable in a trade situation. 5)Wayne Simmonds...Another modified NTC....of little significance, don't see them trading him and has a very reasonable cap hit. 6)Nicklaus Grossmann....Yet another modified NTC...this could come into play, he has his pick of where he wants to go, which in effect, handcuffs Homer to some extent at the trade deadline. 7)Luke Schenn....A modified NTC....but there is a silver lining. There is a legit chance that his trade from Toronto to Philly eliminated this clause altogether. No one but Flyer management and his agent really knows where he stands. 8)R.J Crapburger (™ pilldoc)....a modified NTC, but he is in the same boat as Luke the Fluke...the trade from Columbus to Philly may have scrapped this clause outright....no one knows for sure. The only other potential obstacle to trading a Flyer player is Streit's +35 contract, which expires in 2017. In reality, the troublesome one's are Vinny, Coburn, Grossmann, L.Schenn and the Crapburgler....with the latter 2 perhaps no longer having the clauses effective....brutal, but not quite as brutal as some would have suggested. http://capgeek.com/flyers/reserve-list/ = source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I thought once your clause was waived it was waived. That's not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I would also add the 5M McDud. Although he does not have a NMC his contract is all but immovable. Simply put... Hextall has to buy out VLC and RJ. Show them the door... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I thought once your clause was waived it was waived. That's not the case? I'm really not sure rux, just going by what capgeek has stated, Luke and R.J appear to be unknowns at this point. I guess when trades are made, there is a possibility that the clauses are voided, but not a solid rule apparently, must be a case by case thing. If we to ever get access to Hexy, those 2 questions on the actual status of R.J and Luke would be front and center as the first questions I would ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I would also add the 5M McDud. Although he does not have a NMC his contract is all but immovable.Simply put... Hextall has to buy out VLC and RJ. Show them the door... At least we have the comfort of knowing that Hexy has no restraints to make a deal, should any other GM be that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 At least we have the comfort of knowing that Hexy has no restraints to make a deal, should any other GM be that stupid.I realize we're talking more years, but if Boston can take Meszaros... Seriously, though, Macdonald would be great on a team where he isn't expected to be a top pairing guy. I've maintained this since we've got him. He played well last year when limited in time and responsibilities. Of course, Holmgren threw him money that now demands he play over his head. Holmgren should face a firing squad. Hard to have imagined he'd be worse at GM than he was at coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 At least we have the comfort of knowing that Hexy has no restraints to make a deal, should any other GM be that stupid.Lol... Very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 IIRC, Schenn's NTC doesn't kick in yet. Didn't the Flyers sign him to his current deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 IIRC, Schenn's NTC doesn't kick in yet. Didn't the Flyers sign him to his current deal? I don't think so. When Luke's Entry Level deal expired in 11-12, he was a member of the Leafs, so I think the Leafs signed him to his current deal. This would make sense because Capgeek states that deal may be eliminated his NTC....but not 100% sure on all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Yeah, I just looked back and don't see anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 The acquiring team has the choice whether to keep or toss the NTC/NMC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I realize we're talking more years, but if Boston can take Meszaros...Seriously, though, Macdonald would be great on a team where he isn't expected to be a top pairing guy.I've maintained this since we've got him. He played well last year when limited in time and responsibilities. Agreed. The MacDud stuff is a bit annoying because it's not his fault bluntly. He's a good mid-tier defenseman, asked to play well above his grade. That's the Homercoaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 The acquiring team has the choice whether to keep or toss the NTC/NMC. Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up doomster. Which leads to the obvious question, what GM in his right mind would NOT toss out the NTC/NMC clause? Even Homer in full relapse mode would do away with them. I think it's safe to assume that Luke and R.J no longer have NTC leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Jammer, if you really want the player you're acquiring, you might have to. Otherwise, he can say, "nope, not waiving." Not saying that Luke or RJ are guys you would want that badly, but it's a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Agreed. The MacDud stuff is a bit annoying because it's not his fault bluntly. He's a good mid-tier defenseman, asked to play well above his grade. That's the Homercoaster.Poor McDud.... I truly feel bad for the guy. So you would say he is highly overpaid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Poor McDud.... I truly feel bad for the guy. So you would say he is highly overpaid?Of course he's overpaid. And overplayed. But you take the money you're offered, right? I mean, I'm 46. If some dumb fool offered me a two year $5M guaranteed contract to play left wing, I'd be making Rinaldo look like a god before tomorrow. Now for an actual player, you only have so many years and God only knows when /if an injury could end it. Some dumb ass offers you money well over your station you take it. In my case, it's deliberately deceitful. In an actual player's case, there is likely the thought "I can do this." I don't feel bad for MacDonald. He's being paid very well to fail. It's not his fault (it's Hapless Homer's), but I don't feel bad for him. On the other hand, he doesn't suck. He does suck in the role he's being asked to play, however. And it is likely the role now demanded by his paycheck. It's a shame (not in the "poor MacDonald" sense) because he could be a very good second pairing guy. It's similar to the way Flyers miscast centers as wingers and vice versa. ("it's a shame the Flyers are playing him at wing because he'd be what they need at center.") Same with MacDonald. And probably Coburn, for that matter. MacDonald should top out at 19-20 minutes with some time on the 2nd PP and never see PK time unless someone is hurt or in the box themselves. He'd be very effective that way but is exposed by the increased responsibility of ice time and always playing against the opponent's top line. But all of this creates a problem in moving him (thanks Homer). He's not paid allstar money but he is paid too much for second line. Even if other GMs agree with my second pair assessment they'll think "but I can't justify spending THAT on my second pair." It's going to greatly reduce the return if not kill the deal altogether. So, I don't cry for MacDonald. He's getting rich. But I feel bad that we'd have a capable second pair defenseman and predictably screwed that up. And the very mistake that makes us want to move him will prevent us from being able to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Well said Rux. I don't hate McDud the player....I hate the contract Homer gave him. He's just not worth it, and he never earned it. But I'd have signed it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Agreed. The MacDud stuff is a bit annoying because it's not his fault bluntly. He's a good mid-tier defenseman, asked to play well above his grade. That's the Homercoaster.Agree with your agree. I don't get where the hate for the guy comes from, he's a good but not great player who may be a bit overpayed and overplayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Seriously, though, Macdonald would be great on a team where he isn't expected to be a top pairing guy.I've maintained this since we've got him. He played well last year when limited in time and responsibilities. Of course, Holmgren threw him money that now demands he play over his head. What team would honestly pay their 2nd pairing defenseman $5M per year for the next 6 years? I can think of one - Philly. Can you think of another? And also keep in mind that it's quite possible that MacDonald would make as much or close to their top pairing guys. His level of play and his contract are badly mismatched. I mean, he's making more than any defenseman on the Kings not named Doughty. Same for the Rangers (including McDonagh!) except for Girardi who makes a whopping $500k more. He makes $500K less than Duncan Keith and about $800K less than Seabrook, but more than anyone else including Hjarlmarsson who I would take in a heartbeat. He would be second highest paid only to Matt Carle on the Lightning. He would be only $400k below Bouwmeester (but quite below Pietrangelo) on St. Louis, but $750K more than Shattenkirk. He would be the highest paid defenseman on the Ducks, at $1M more than the closest guy (Fowler). He'd be second only to Weber on the Preds, who have really really nice defensemen (Josi, Ellis, Jones). I just can't imagine what team would be idiotic enough to take on that contract for that level of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 @brelic keep on filling the room with sunshine ! after reading your last post i threw up in my mouth ... a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 @flyercanuck@ruxpin agree with all points above. Again it goes back to this notion that coaches/management put players in positions where they are destined to fail. This club is notorious for playing players out of position. Trying to fit round pegs in square holes simply does not work, yet this is what this club does time and time again. Maybe with a legit coach with NHL experience and has a solid plan/ scheme could stop all this non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 What team would honestly pay their 2nd pairing defenseman $5M per year for the next 6 years? I can think of one - Philly. Can you think of another? And also keep in mind that it's quite possible that MacDonald would make as much or close to their top pairing guys. His level of play and his contract are badly mismatched. I mean, he's making more than any defenseman on the Kings not named Doughty. Same for the Rangers (including McDonagh!) except for Girardi who makes a whopping $500k more. He makes $500K less than Duncan Keith and about $800K less than Seabrook, but more than anyone else including Hjarlmarsson who I would take in a heartbeat. He would be second highest paid only to Matt Carle on the Lightning. He would be only $400k below Bouwmeester (but quite below Pietrangelo) on St. Louis, but $750K more than Shattenkirk. He would be the highest paid defenseman on the Ducks, at $1M more than the closest guy (Fowler). He'd be second only to Weber on the Preds, who have really really nice defensemen (Josi, Ellis, Jones). I just can't imagine what team would be idiotic enough to take on that contract for that level of play. again it goes back to how badly management over values players. Which goes back to mishandling of the cap. We all have been bitching about this for years. Nothing will change until the old man (Snider) steps aside. Hopefully Hexy will bring some sort of stabilty and finance responsibilty back to this club. Until then...I will continue to hold my breath. Simply put.....I don't trust them to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 @brelic keep on filling the room with sunshine ! after reading your last post i threw up in my mouth ... a little. Sorry mojo If it makes you feel any better, I didn't make any of that stuff up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 again it goes back to how badly management over values players. Which goes back to mishandling of the cap. We all have been bitching about this for years. Nothing will change until the old man (Snider) steps aside. Hopefully Hexy will bring some sort of stabilty and finance responsibilty back to this club. Until then...I will continue to hold my breath. Simply put.....I don't trust them to do the right thing. I think promoting Homer to President bothers me more than hiring Chief as coach. Can you name another GM who was 'fired' but really 'promoted' within his team? Who's been fired within the past few seasons - Holmgren, Shero, Burke, Rutherford, Regier, Feaster, Sherman, Howson, Nieuwendyk, Tambellini, McPhee, Gauthier, Gillis. You know? I never realized how many GMs were actually canned over the last 2 years! That's like 45%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarsippius Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think promoting Homer to President bothers me more than hiring Chief as coach. Can you name another GM who was 'fired' but really 'promoted' within his team?. It's one of those things, if Mr Snider thinks you've been a good Company man, you'll always have a job with him. Same thing happened when Clarke came back as GM then got kicked upstairs. Clarke isn't doing any work for the team to earn his paycheck, and I don't mind that one bit (hey, it's Comcast's money not mine!), and I hope the same can now be said for Homer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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