JagerMeister Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 So, who is in your opinion the second greatest defenseman of all time? Personally i think it really only comes down to 3 players that make a good argument for 2nd place. Nicklas Lidstrom7 Norris trophies, a Conn Smyth and a first time Allstar 11 times. He is arguably the best European player of all time, he was very consistent throughout his entire career. Won a Norris trophy at 40 and was the oldest player to do so. Was a Norris finalist 3 times and was atleast in the top ten from 1995 to the time he retired. Doug HarveyAccording to hockey writers, he was the best defensive defenseman of all time. Norris trophy winner 7 times and 1st time Allstar 11 times. Was a finalist for the hart and norris trophy once and was atleast top 5 in Hart voting 4 times. Ray BourqueWon 5 norris trophies and was a first time Allstar 14 times (most of any player in history i believe) Was probably the most consistent defenseman of all time. He was always in the top ten in Norris voting for his whole career...thats 23 years. Basically the Gordie Howe of defenseman. It is also important to note that he had the toughest competition of defenseman. Competing with all time great defenseman in their primes, Stevens, Niedermayer, Chelios and a few more im too lazy to search up. Honorable Mentions Paul Coffeyprobably the best offensive defenseman, won 3 norris trophies and scored the most goals of any defenseman. Chris Cheliosgreatest american born player of all time, won 3 norris trophies and he played longer then he should have. Denis Potvin3 norris trophies, was a scary mother ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Lidstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocker Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think Lidstrom also. Interesting thing about Doug Harvey. When he was on the ice, he set the tempo of the game. He had a kind of relaxed, deliberate style of play. Everyone else reacted to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The Perfect Human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 1. Orr2. Lidstrom3. Bourque4. Potvin5. RobinsonHM: ParkNever saw Harvey so can't rate him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 1. Orr2. Lidstrom3. Bourque4. Potvin5. RobinsonHM: ParkNever saw Harvey so can't rate himunfortunately for park. Orrs prime was when parks prime started so he got overshadowed by him. If park was in any other decade he would have won a norris atleast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 1. Orr2. Lidstrom3. Bourque4. Potvin5. RobinsonHM: ParkNever saw Harvey so can't rate himGreat list and love the Park HM. I think Harvey should be on the list but appreciate your reason for not including him. I would keep your order and probably put Harvey between Bourque and Potvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocker Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Never saw Harvey so can't rate him Jack, I'm old enough to have watched Doug Harvey. Hell, I think I'm older than Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Jack, I'm old enough to have watched Doug Harvey. Hell, I think I'm older than Doug.Well, you know what they say- age is just a number. I just wish my number was smaller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Great list and love the Park HM. I think Harvey should be on the list but appreciate your reason for not including him. I would keep your order and probably put Harvey between Bourque and Potvin.Obviously Harvey is an all time great and belongs in there somewhere, I just don't know how to put him in a specific spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 unfortunately for park. Orrs prime was when parks prime started so he got overshadowed by him. If park was in any other decade he would have won a norris atleastYeah, Park finished second in the Norris voting more than anyone else. Six times I believe, and I think four of those were behind Orr. It's a shame he never won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I think Lidstrom also. Interesting thing about Doug Harvey. When he was on the ice, he set the tempo of the game. He had a kind of relaxed, deliberate style of play. Everyone else reacted to him. I was born four years after Harvey retired, but *everything* I ever read about or was spoken about with regard to him says that. My guess (and that's what it is) is that the closest combination of that ability to control the pace of the game, draw in forecheckers before getting the puck to a teammate, and the mean streak, would come in the form of one Christopher F Pronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Surprised from everyone picking lidstrom, Bourque IMO is 2nd to Orr. Both players have good arguments for 2nd though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 @JagerMeister Larry Robinson. He brought toughness and tenacity that the other star d-men could never match. Lot's of forwards would not go into the corners with Larry, or least hesitate and reluctantly go in. You had to have you head on a swivel when Robinson was on the ice. He intimidated, took no prisoners, but ran a pp like a General and had a WICKED shot....and oh yeah, in an era when it was important, he could knock anybody silly with one punch. Just loved his smooth stride and smarts.....he was the total package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 @JagerMeister Larry Robinson. He brought toughness and tenacity that the other star d-men could never match. Lot's of forwards would not go into the corners with Larry, or least hesitate and reluctantly go in. You had to have you head on a swivel when Robinson was on the ice. He intimidated, took no prisoners, but ran a pp like a General and had a WICKED shot....and oh yeah, in an era when it was important, he could knock anybody silly with one punch. Just loved his smooth stride and smarts.....he was the total package.He was great, but would you pick him over Bourque and Lidstrom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocker Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm prejudiced against Coffey because of his play when he came to the Flyers. He farted around skating with the puck instead of headmanning the puck. Maybe that stuff worked when he was a young man in Edmonton, but here it seemed like selfishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blocker Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Red Kelly belongs in this discussion somewhere. He was a hell of a hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Red Kelly belongs in this discussion somewhere. He was a hell of a hockey player.Nice one, forgot about him. Definitely a top ten dman of all time IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Eddie Shore won 4 Hart Trophies. He obviously didn't do it in a talent pool as deep as other guys, but 4 MVPs are tough to just brush away with the wave of a hand, not to mention that the talent pool has only gotten deeper with each generation, so this is something we could say about damn near every player in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 Eddie Shore won 4 Hart Trophies. He obviously didn't do it in a talent pool as deep as other guys, but 4 MVPs are tough to just brush away with the wave of a hand, not to mention that the talent pool has only gotten deeper with each generation, so this is something we could say about damn near every player in this thread.Nice one, forgot about him as well. Come to think of it, I think there is a good argument for Shore being second. He won 4 harts as a defenseman over players like Howie Morenz who was basically the gretzky of his era and i dont think the Norris was invented during Shore's time so that explains his lack of norris trophies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 You know who had the potential to be one of the greatest defenseman of all time, none other than Phillys own Behn Wilson. I never saw a defenseman with such a combination of size ,skill and toughness in my life. Wilson got somewhere around 60 points as a rookie for us, he was an intimidating force offensively and physically , talk about a mean streak, he was to me the best fighter we ever had and could play hockey. He had all the tools to be a superstar hall of famer. For whatever reason he never fully developed, but to this day I have yet to see another with that combination of skill and toughness all in one package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 @RonJeremy I'll mention Larry Robinson again then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Ok forgot about Robinson, and of course Robinson is a true Hall of famer for sure. I still think that no one had that hair trigger temper like Wilson, he fought way more than Robinson. Wilson was one angry guy. There aren't many players coming up these days that have that blend of skill , toughness and fighting ability like a Wilson or Stevens or Tocchet. Robinson never went looking for a fight, I think Tocchet and Wilson enjoyed it and went looking for it, that's a scary player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 @RonJeremy I agree Robinson didn't start many fights, but he could certainly end them. The game has changed and you don't see as much fighting...but Chara could go against anyone of any era. Shea Weber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Kerry Huffman. Next question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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