brelic Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Uh having both his wingers hurt pretty much all season....for one. Having seen what we did at the end of the year, I would slot Couturier with Schenn in training camp. Maybe throw Raffl on the other side. VLC/G/JakeRaffl/Coots/SchennSimmonds/McDavid (or Laughton)/ReadVV/Bellemare/White I'm thinking if you can't get rid of VLC try him up top again. Babcock will have his hands full for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 According to Carchidi's column in the Inquirer (can't seem to find it online?), players like Streit, Simmonds, White... all spoke up in support of Berube. So I don't know that players will be clamoring to get out of here if he comes back. Well, except for vinny. He still shouldn't come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 According to Carchidi's column in the Inquirer (can't seem to find it online?), players like Streit, Simmonds, White... all spoke up in support of Berube. I'm just wondering what we would expect the players to say about their coach? Especially guys who aren't Vinny Lecavalier in this league. Ryan White wants him back? You know what Ryan White is not at this point? Signed for next season. You think he's going to be out there criticising a coach in the media? Hell no. He's going to play "good soldier" to a tee. Here's the Carchidi, btw:http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20150414_Many_Flyers_want_Berube_back__Lecavalier_does_not.html These are mostly guys who saw their coach get canned just last season for their failings. Do you think they want that on their conscience again? Voracek: "We are here as a team. We all stick together." That's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the coach. That's what I expect from a hockey player. Especially in the media. What got said behind closed doors may be another thing entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Of course anything is possible, but I'm personally not expecting to see Sanheim up for more than a cup of coffee for at least one more season. Would love to be wrong on that He just turned 19 last month, right?I think and despite his potential abilities and where they may be at by next fall, I'm in agreement that he'll need to grow into himself a bit more before he's ready for NHL play. If his skill set is close next fall, I would love to see him get the 9 games allowed or whatever it is before going back to the hit men or wherever just to give him that taste of what the NHL really feels like.I wish they'd given that chance to Morin this season. I would have liked to have seen Ghost up for a few more games if he hadn't gotten hurt. While I agree with many here that rushing these guys into the NHl isn't good for them, I disagree with anyone who thinks that absolutely ZERO NHL time is the best thing for their development. I think a few games here and there is never a bad idea. I'll think it even more if the Flyers are being coached by someone with a plan and a system to instill... but you know... no loss there this season I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Agree... but what of all the defensmen in this lineup there is not a "strong defender" to pair him with. Sadly, we are already have 7 defensemen (?) for next year. Hopefully, they trade some of them... We had 9 this year. Doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 These gems from Berube are why he has to be gone fast! The more he speaks the past few days the more troubling it gets. It all just verifies what I've been suspecting for a long while. Let's face it. We all figured he had no idea what the hell he was doing when they hired him, but they turned it around last year and some of us let ourselves believe he had something to do with it. But the reality is they were just as bad with him as they were before he came for a long time and it wasn't until G go the text from Richie and he a few others got their head's screwed on straight that they started winning. I wanted to like Chief, but he just hasn't panned out as an NHL coach at a high level. I think he needed to coach on a few more levels under a few more circumstances. I just don't think he has a feel for how to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 We had 9 this year. Doesn't mean much.Right... I was talking defensemen already under contract for next season. Either way they still suck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I actually like that Berube is comparing Couturier to Bergeron.I like that he challenges / challenged him.I think that kid needs it. I also agree that Berube is defensive, gruff, and I agree that he may not be the best coach for developing players. I know Chief loves hockey, and maybe can't get past some his personal biases in regards to his players, he sees an effort guy like Umberger as worthy of ice time, while a talented guy like VLC "dogs it". I don't think he's a bad guy , or even a bad coach , i do think half his players hate playing for him for whatever reason and that's a problem, since you can 't fire half the players... I don't know who is available to replace him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I actually like that Berube is comparing Couturier to Bergeron.I like that he challenges / challenged him.I think that kid needs it. I can get on board with this, if it wasn't presented in the way that it was. defensive, gruff, I get not liking the media. I get hating to do interviews. I get hating pencil necked geeks who never played the game badgering you about the game you've devoted your life to since you were a teenager. But that's why NHL coaches get the big bucks. Dealing with the media is part of the deal. I appreciate Craig Berube as a player. As a "hockey guy." As a good assistant coach. Ahem. He is simply not NHL head coach material. Do you think there was another franchise out there waiting to poach Berube from the Flyers? I doubt it. Could be wrong. Bill Barber never got another head coaching job. He did get his name on the Cup again, though... Berube's a reflection of the knee-jerk, ham-handed, crisis management approach that Bobby Clarke's protege Paul Holmgren reverted to with this hockey team. The Old Man is likely a strong part of it as well. For example... having failed to cut Laviolette loose in the off season, they go three games into the next season and then have the owner publicly slam his training camp as they kick him to the curb. Three games into the season, they flail around and clutch the thing they have right in front of them - for, honestly, pretty much a lack of available alternatives. Having caught something that wasn't evading them in the first place, then claim victory in losing a first round playoff series*. Everybody hopes that Hextall - having come from a successful organization in Los Angeles and being a "Flyer for life" - will have the leeway to bring a new way of doing things to South Broad Street. It also begs the question of why Dean Lombardi wound up in Los Angeles in the first place... But it is overall the #phillyosophy of the team that seriously has to change. The Old Man is still talking about "competing for the Stanley Cup" - which is an ultimate hockey cliche as every team by definition is "competing for the Stanley Cup." Winning the damn thing is something else entirely. * to the eventual Stanley Cup Finals Loser Finalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I actually like that Berube is comparing Couturier to Bergeron.I like that he challenges / challenged him.I think that kid needs it. I also agree that Berube is defensive, gruff, and I agree that he may not be the best coach for developing players. I know Chief loves hockey, and maybe can't get past some his personal biases in regards to his players, he sees an effort guy like Umberger as worthy of ice time, while a talented guy like VLC "dogs it". I don't think he's a bad guy , or even a bad coach , i do think half his players hate playing for him for whatever reason and that's a problem, since you can 't fire half the players... I don't know who is available to replace him with. That's pretty much how I feel as well. I think Berube knows his hockey, and he definitely has the team doing some things better than they were doing in Lavi's last season + 3 games. But he seems too hard headed and inflexible in his approach, which for a first time head coach in the league maybe isn't so surprising. Whether he really is a good coach is hard to tell with the roster he's got, although the fact that the team had a playoff worthy record at home but was abysmal on the road has to fall in large part on him. Basically I'm ambivalent as to whether he should be replaced or not, if there is a clear upgrade available then I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Quigster Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 I recall an interview with Cooter comparing himself to Bergeron as a player he would like to emulate.My only question is when is he going to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 That's pretty much how I feel as well. I think Berube knows his hockey, and he definitely has the team doing some things better than they were doing in Lavi's last season + 3 games. But he seems too hard headed and inflexible in his approach, which for a first time head coach in the league maybe isn't so surprising. Whether he really is a good coach is hard to tell with the roster he's got, although the fact that the team had a playoff worthy record at home but was abysmal on the road has to fall in large part on him. Basically I'm ambivalent as to whether he should be replaced or not, if there is a clear upgrade available then I'm all for it. I could maybe agree with this perspective if it were not for some of the very specific situations that he has been shown wanting in handling his players. Mason especially. I don't want a coach like that. You need a skilled surgeon employing a sharp knife to handle players these days not a brute wielding a dull axe. Berube has shown that he is most assuredly the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I could maybe agree with this perspective if it were not for some of the very specific situations that he has been shown wanting in handling his players. Mason especially. I don't want a coach like that. You need a skilled surgeon employing a sharp knife to handle players these days not a brute wielding a dull axe. Berube has shown that he is most assuredly the latter. I agree with that (although I'm less bothered by the Mason situation than most). His ham-handed approach to handling players is probably my biggest complaint of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I agree with that (although I'm less bothered by the Mason situation than most). His ham-handed approach to handling players is probably my biggest complaint of him. Yeah, so I guess it depends on how much you value that one category ("ham-fistedness"). For me, it's kind of black and white: it shows that he is not an NHL head coach - and can't be. Maybe down the road (bit hopefully not with us), but not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Yeah, so I guess it depends on how much you value that one category ("ham-fistedness"). For me, it's kind of black and white: it shows that he is not an NHL head coach - and can't be. Maybe down the road (bit hopefully not with us), but not yet. I think that's something that people can learn, or at least get better at... but sometimes they have learn the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think that's something that people can learn, or at least get better at... but sometimes they have learn the hard way. Indeedly indeed. And who am I to judge? I have the people skills of an axe murderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Indeedly indeed. And who am I to judge? I have the people skills of an axe murderer but you make up for it with your sheep skills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I read quite a few summaries of the player exit interviews yesterday, including Berube addressing the media. I've got to say, Chief sounded bitter and came off as very narrow-minded. A few players also weren't happy with their roles. I don't envy Hextall. He's got an impatient overlord above him, a number of core and non-core players who aren't happy with the coach, and a coach who is very testy and defensive. What to do? In all likelihood, the team will be more of the same next year. Should be the same quality in goal, equal or slightly better up front, probably worse on the blueline. As much as want to shed guys like Grossmann and MacDud and possibly Schenn, the reality is they are NHL defensemen with experience, and that doesn't just get replaced and improved upon by slotting Manning, Ghost, and Morin in there. Those guys will have learning curves and will make a ton of mistakes - that kind that lose hockey games. Ghost alone made 2-3 egregious mistakes in the 2 games he played. Imagine that times 3 players over a full season. EDIT - I'm not saying to keep those 3 defensemen. I'm saying that moving them won't solve the problem short-term. It will get worse before it gets better. Maybe it's just me, but I think Ed might be reconsidering everything with this club when it comes to players and drafting/development. There was an article from three days ago where Ed came out and said that maybe there's been an overvaluing of guys on the roster and that he's going to let Ron fix it. http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/ed-snider-flyers-it-was-disappointing-season I found this line in the article above very telling: "What Snider did say, however, was that he wants Hextall to determine whether the organization has misjudged the talent level and whether it needs upgrading." So, I know it might ring hollow from Ed, but this statement really has me believing that finally, this organization gets that you can't buy a Cup anymore. You have to draft, develop, trade and sign players very smartly and that there has to be an actual plan in place, not throwing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks like they've done in previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Hello: It's sad that we have to spend time on this. Seriously. Most organizations take it as a given that you need to think about three to five years out. I guess that it foreign to the O and B. Hopefully that mindset is changing. I don't envy the '15-'16 coach. We can't expect miracles and high save percentage from Mason in perpetuity. If there are new faces, time is need to gel. If it's the old faces, we have to pray for physical or performance improvements that may not be likely. I could make the case that the strongest rationale for keeping Berube is the reality of what next season is likely to be. Let a newcomer deal with new and improved faces and let's see a coach and squad grow together. That is unlikely to happen but foisting a newcomer on this bunch may not do much. Best, Howie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 ...If it's the old faces, we have to pray for physical or performance improvements... Does me praying for those players to all die in a plane crash make me a bad person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I could maybe agree with this perspective if it were not for some of the very specific situations that he has been shown wanting in handling his players. Mason especially. I don't want a coach like that. You need a skilled surgeon employing a sharp knife to handle players these days not a brute wielding a dull axe. Berube has shown that he is most assuredly the latter.I'm sorry, but watching this team try to play their positions and transition out of their own end, there is no way anyone will ever convince me Berube knows modern hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Except for the part where Coots actually outperformed Bergeron by scoring more of his points when he starts in his own end. That kinda blows the lid off the whole thing. I actually like that Berube is comparing Couturier to Bergeron.I like that he challenges / challenged him.I think that kid needs it.I also agree that Berube is defensive, gruff, and I agree that he may not be the best coach for developing players.I know Chief loves hockey, and maybe can't get past some his personal biases in regards to his players, he sees an effort guy like Umberger as worthy of ice time, while a talented guy like VLC "dogs it".I don't think he's a bad guy , or even a bad coach , i do think half his players hate playing for him for whatever reason and that's a problem, since you can 't fire half the players...I don't know who is available to replace him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I recall an interview with Cooter comparing himself to Bergeron as a player he would like to emulate.My only question is when is he going to start? He's 2/3s of the way there. Oh and btw, Bergeron missed the playoffs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Didn't read through the whole thread, but Berube is BRUTAL at constructing useful lines AND line matching. It's 2 of the main ways a coach can impact a game, and the Flyers basically start out everygame behind the 8 ball cause he is so bad at matching lines....get him the HELL out...he's in over his head and it's blatantly obvious!! I want Claude Julien if the Bruins let him go, which I think they will!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Didn't read through the whole thread, but Berube is BRUTAL at constructing useful lines AND line matching. It's 2 of the main ways a coach can impact a game, and the Flyers basically start out everygame behind the 8 ball cause he is so bad at matching lines....get him the HELL out...he's in over his head and it's blatantly obvious!! I want Claude Julien if the Bruins let him go, which I think they will!! Here's a thought experiment for you on a Friday morning. Julien has been with the Bruins for 8 seasons. It took him 4 seasons to win the SC, including a 116pt season, two 2nd round exits, and one 1st round exit. One of those 2nd round exits was the historical collapse to the Flyers. I ask you this: the Bruins had enough faith in their players, and their coach to keep him around despite the immense embarrassment and historical collapse. They won the Cup the next year. Do you think the Flyers would have been as patient? Those are the kinds of things I wonder about with this organization - we saw it with the dismantling of the SCF team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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