yave1964 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (Steve Shutt) Post expansion poll of who is the greatest Montreal Canadien. A few such as Beliveau and the Pocket rocket played into the 1970's but really belong in the other era so I did not list them. So here are the options for the greatest Montreal Canadien since the days of the original six: GUY LAFLEUR: The flower was the face of the seventies, he finished his Hab career with 518 goals and a club record 1246 points. He led the league in scoring for three straight years, he won a couple of Hart trophies and a Conn Smythe. The figure of him going down the ice with his hair flowing is one of the most recognizable in the games history. KEN DRYDEN: Played only eight years but finished with an insane 258-57-74 record leading the league in wins four times 5 time first team All star, 5 time Vezina winner, he won a Smythe and the Calder and in his eight years he won 6 Stanley Cups. PATRICK ROY: Finished his time in Montreal with 551 games and 289 wins, winning two cups with less than stellar teams, carrying them to the championships on his back, winning the Smythe as postseason MVP both times. Won the Vezina three times and appeared in six all Star games while in Montreal. YVAN COURNOYER: 4TH ALL TIME IN goals scored in club history with 428, the little engine that could was a Smythe winner, a second team all star four times, and won a remarkable eight cups with the Canadiens. Had 12 straight years of 24 or more goals peaking at 45. LARRY ROBINSON: 2nd all time in games played in club history, and believe it or not with all the big boy forwards he is still 4th all time in assists and fifth in scoring. I know plus/minus is exagerated sometimes but he had a plus 120 season. Think about that. He is number one all time in that category with plus 730. He was a three time first team all star, three times he was second team, won the Norris twice and like the rest of these guys won a Smythe as the postseason MVP. Big and intimidating and could score, he teamed with Guy Lapointe and Serge Savard to form the greatest defense in hockey history. I left guys such as the above mentioned Savard and Lapointe because I feel that Robinson was clearly superior although both were damn good. Others I considered for this were Jacques Lemaire Steve Shutt and Saka Koivu but I think the ones chosen were the cream of the crop. Happy voting. WHO AM I? Winger played a big part in the Habs dynasty as well as time in the WHA went on to post career front office position with the team, for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 My instinct is that this is gonna be close between Roy, robinson and Lafleur, and the deciding factor will be your own personal preferences. But if I am forced to make a decision, I would most likely go with Roy.Roy is one of the very few players in the history of hockey that can be argued as a better playoff performer then Lafleur. His teams were far less impressive than Lafleur's but despite that, he won more Smythe's and carried mostly mediocre teams during his time spent with the Canadiens, he was undoubtedly the best player every time his teams made it to the playoffs.That being said, A decent argument could be made for both Lafleur and Robinson and I would have no problem with anyone choosing them over Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Lafluer is one of the all time defining Habs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 I went with Dryden, 6 cups in an 8 year career playing a key position. It was close between he and the flower whom I always felt was a tiny bit overrated but still an amazing player. Dryden if he had stuck around another three or four years and won a couple of more would have been a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Patrick Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 This one is probably hardest for me. Since Lafleur jumped into my head just seeing the title and before clicking on the thread, I guess I'll stick with him. Robinson and Dryden would be next on my list. On play, Roy absolutely belongs in that conversation and I respect a vote for him. For ME, his meltdown/tantrum/forced trade takes him out of the running for greatest. EDIT: I had a long comment about Beliveau, et al. in this space but then re-read yave's post and explanation. So that has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 This one is probably hardest for me. Since Lafleur jumped into my head just seeing the title and before clicking on the thread, I guess I'll stick with him. Robinson and Dryden would be next on my list. On play, Roy absolutely belongs in that conversation and I respect a vote for him. For ME, his meltdown/tantrum/forced trade takes him out of the running for greatest. EDIT: I had a long comment about Beliveau, et al. in this space but then re-read yave's post and explanation. So that has been removed.Yeah Rux with the Original six clubs if at least half of their career was not post expansion I exclude them. I figure most of us are not old enough to remember players who played over fifty years ago and all they are is a few lines of numbers on a piece of paper. It is probably my age doing this having been born in 1964. It is going to cause me to leave Gordie off the Wings list, same as Sawchuk but my imaginary line in the sand is post original six and going forward. Frankly I believe expansion changed the game quite a bit anyway and it is really a bit of a different game since then anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yeah Rux with the Original six clubs if at least half of their career was not post expansion I exclude them. I figure most of us are not old enough to remember players who played over fifty years ago and all they are is a few lines of numbers on a piece of paper. It is probably my age doing this having been born in 1964. It is going to cause me to leave Gordie off the Wings list, same as Sawchuk but my imaginary line in the sand is post original six and going forward. Frankly I believe expansion changed the game quite a bit anyway and it is really a bit of a different game since then anyway.Agreed. I completely got it when I re-read your initial post, but it somehow didn't register when I read it the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terp Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 @yave1964So long as it makes no difference that he made his mark with more than one team, I choose Roy. Hard to overlook the three Smythe's including youngest ever Smythe. As competitive as Larry Byrd. If I'm choosing a Habs only guy, I like Robinson even though I'm ignoring a crazy strong case for Dryden. It is hard not to pick at least 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 @terp Robinson plus 720. Simply one of the most insane numbers ever was his plus 120 in one year, most people would be thrilled to have that for a career. And of all the Canadien players who have worn the sweater for him, a defenseman to be 5th all time in scoring in team history is astounding. Hard not to vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Only five have voted so far, but none for Robinson. I'm wondering, regardless of who a person's number one is, if he is most people's second. Because so far most are giving him a strong honorable mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ken Dryden is my pick as the greatest goaltender of all-time, and that's enough to put him on top of this question for me. Harder for me is picking #2. Lafleur and Robinson are pretty close there, though I'd probably lean toward the former. Roy is further back for me since I don't rank him as highly among goalies as many do, and because he split his career between Montreal and Colorado. The Habs certainly have a lot of good candidates. As a Senators fan, I don't like Montreal very much, but I have a deep respect for their history, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Robinson, an easy choice. He's easily one of the 5 best d-men ever. His special blend of smarts, skill and physicality are unmatched. He also brought his wicked fists to the table, although he did not fight much.....not cause he didn't want to, but because he was so feared that not many challenged him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ken Dryden is my pick as the greatest goaltender of all-time, and that's enough to put him on top of this question for me. Harder for me is picking #2. Lafleur and Robinson are pretty close there, though I'd probably lean toward the former. Roy is further back for me since I don't rank him as highly among goalies as many do, and because he split his career between Montreal and Colorado. The Habs certainly have a lot of good candidates. As a Senators fan, I don't like Montreal very much, but I have a deep respect for their history, nonetheless.@Yave1964Ha, I didnt even realize Dryden was in the poll. However, I think Roy was still more impressive during his time with the Canadiens. Sure, Dryden's hardware looks far more accomplished, but he was also playing behind some of the greatest teams ever, and one could argue his stats were skewed because of that. Whereas Roy played on some fairly mediocre teams, yet he carried his teams to the playoffs and despite playing on far lesser teams, he still won more Conn Smythe's then Dryden during his time spent with the Canadiens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 @JagerMeister That is why I made certain to mention that Roy won cups with two teams that without him had no business in the playoffs let alone winning a cup. But to me, Dryden and his eight year career was remarkable and don't forget prior to him coming aboard the Habs were in one of their brief down cycles, they were not winning before he came aboard and they lost as soon as he retired. Dryden was simply an amazing goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I go with body of work and length of service to put Lafleur over Roy or Dryden. I think his six straight 50 goal/100 point seasons competes well with Dryden's (comparatively) brief career and Roy's two Cups. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 @JagerMeister r@yave1964 It's true that the teams Dryden played for were better than those that Roy played for, but I find it impossible to overlook what Dryden did. From 1970-71 through 1978-79, there were only three seasons that the Habs didn't win the Cup, and one of those was the season Dryden held out. Not only did they not win the Cup that year, they lost in the first round. In only one of his full seasons was he not named first or second team all-star, that being the one immediately after his hiatus. Of the other seasons, only once was he named a second team all-star, that being his rookie year, and he won the Calder that year. Of course, all of that was after winning the Conn Smythe in 1971, after playing in only six regular season games. He immediately showed that he could take the heat. He might not have won six Cups in such a short career anywhere else, but I think just about anyone could have won at least a Cup or two with him in net. Amazing is a good word for him, but I'm not so sure they make words to fit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I go with body of work and length of service to put Lafleur over Roy or Dryden. I think his six straight 50 goal/100 point seasons competes well with Dryden's (comparatively) brief career and Roy's two Cups. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. sure Lafleur's career with the Canadiens lasted longer then the other two. But besides those six years of reputable play from Lafleur. The rest of his career with the Canadiens was slightly underwhelming, primarily his postseason performances following those six years of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 sure Lafleur's career with the Canadiens lasted longer then the other two. But besides those six years of reputable play from Lafleur. The rest of his career with the Canadiens was slightly underwhelming, primarily his postseason performances following those six years of play. Granted, but the whole team made it out of the first round once. And injury certainly played a factor to the end. He still followed up those seasons with 27 goals in 51 games27 in 6627 in 6830 in 80 Dryden is almost untouchable, given his achievements. But I'm not so sure that we can say Roy took teams "that had no businsess" winning - the 1986 team still had Robinson along with Mats Naslund, Claude Lemiuex, Chelios, Bobby Smith... Hardly chopped liver - and they won the Final 4-1, sweeping Boston in the first round and taking the Rags 4-1 in the Conference Final (with a tough 4-3 win over Hartford in the second). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Granted, but the whole team made it out of the first round once. And injury certainly played a factor to the end. He still followed up those seasons with 27 goals in 51 games27 in 6627 in 6830 in 80 Dryden is almost untouchable, given his achievements. But I'm not so sure that we can say Roy took teams "that had no businsess" winning - the 1986 team still had Robinson along with Mats Naslund, Claude Lemiuex, Chelios, Bobby Smith... Hardly chopped liver - and they won the Final 4-1, sweeping Boston in the first round and taking the Rags 4-1 in the Conference Final (with a tough 4-3 win over Hartford in the second). Indeed, not exactly a non playoff contender team. However, without Roy, they most likely don't go deep into the playoffs, if even make it in at all. Of the names you mentioned, Robinson was far past his prime, Claude lemieux wasn't exactly a phenomenal player during the regular season, and Mats Naslund only reached stardom once, in which he was 8th in points one year and never again to be seen in the top ten point producers. So yeah, I still believe them to be fairly mediocre removing Roy from the equation.And again, lafleur was still in his prime when he produced those stats, and yet it was a far cry from what he had achieved during those 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Is it too soon to start talking about Peter Forsberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would say Larry Robinson. He was the most feared player in the league defensively and was as suffocating and tough a defender who ever played, on the greatest NHL team of all-time in the 1970s. He would also chip in some offensively. Dryden would not have been as effective without him clearing the crease and overmatching and overpowering forwards. That is not to say he isn't one of the all-time greatest goalies but having guys like he and Lapointe in front of the net helped him greatly.Other teams would stratagize just to try to avoid his side of the ice because he was so dominant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The other thing you have to remember is Dryden, like all greats had some real nice things go his way. For instance, I can remember his last cup, against John Davidson and the Rangers, 5 game series...BUT...in the early stages, when things were tight, little known Cam Connor scored in double OT to allow the Habs to take control. I don't have to mention that Dryden held them in until Cam ended up scoring...but I'm so glad I remember that game so well, cause it was an honour to see a class guy like John Davidson have his very best game ever.....My humble opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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