FlyersFan4Life Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 i'm convinced something happened after the Rags game, a personality conflict, something in the locker room. That PP last night was ridiculous, the top unit literally standing like they were glued to their spots around the horseshoe, playing a lukewarm version of catch. This team is going through something right now that it wasn't going through in the first few weeks of the season. Where did I read that Giroux was barking at Hakstol on the bench a few games back? Somebody posted it on the board somewhere.that was me who posted it. This was from someone who was at the game behind the flyers bench, he is on a Flyers Facebook page I belong to Not a coaching issue 'directly' per se, but clearly this team is rebelling against Hackstol and does not believe in his system. They are doing the total opposite on the ice during the games than they do in practice (and I've been to many already this year). I've seen teams do this in the past when they dont gel with the coach, they shut down during the game. Classic rebellious attitude and quite frankly, very immature and unprofessional. Im not calling for Hackstol's head but he needs to try another approach/system that the players will support AND this team needs to support their coach no matter what. The home game vs Buffalo when Giroux lost it on the bench and started ripping the coaches and team...then Hackstol fired back at him telling him to use that energy on the ice crushed G's spirit (and the team's) imo. I was right behind the bench and heard everything that was said. They just hung their heads after that exchange and folded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Not a coaching issue 'directly' per se, but clearly this team is rebelling against Hackstol and does not believe in his system. Well this early in the game with a new coach on a 5 year deal that would be just foolish....and more than likely in the end fast track you on the way out of town. 3 coaches now with most of these guys...then it's time to move the players...we can not have the inmates running the asylum. If this is the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 .then Hackstol fired back at him telling him to use that energy on the ice I agree with that. He does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Look what Hak is working with...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 that was me who posted it. This was from someone who was at the game behind the flyers bench, he is on a Flyers Facebook page I belong to Not a coaching issue 'directly' per se, but clearly this team is rebelling against Hackstol and does not believe in his system. They are doing the total opposite on the ice during the games than they do in practice (and I've been to many already this year). I've seen teams do this in the past when they dont gel with the coach, they shut down during the game. Classic rebellious attitude and quite frankly, very immature and unprofessional. Im not calling for Hackstol's head but he needs to try another approach/system that the players will support AND this team needs to support their coach no matter what. The home game vs Buffalo when Giroux lost it on the bench and started ripping the coaches and team...then Hackstol fired back at him telling him to use that energy on the ice crushed G's spirit (and the team's) imo. I was right behind the bench and heard everything that was said. They just hung their heads after that exchange and folded. Well wouldn't this suggest that they SHOULD be playing his system!? I mean, what they are doing by rebelling clearly is NOT working. Sorry... this story just kinda doesn't make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sorry... this story just kinda doesn't make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 yeah.. I'm not buying this whisper down the lane b.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 My comment was specific to THIS team. This lineup... no coach was going to come to Philly and turn THIS team around on a dime. That doesn't mean that any other coach can't come in and turnaround another team just like that. In referencing Toronto, I'm suggesting what you see is similar. That team is a steaming pile of.. you know what and the revered CockMike McBabcock can't do dookie with that pile of horse manure. I'm in agreement with @radoran on this one. The leadership group of this team should be taken to task well before an NCAA coach that will need time to figure out this level. These guys have been here more than a few years now and they have been consistently inconsistent. The coach can't skate for them and they continually seem to show up late to games. This is has now been the case with THREE coaches. For these reasons, I simply cannot get behind the issues with this team's failing coming down squarely on the coach right now. However, it's a huge poo sammich and they're all gonna have to take a bite. I'm not saying that all or even most of the blame falls on the coach. I'm also not going to just assume he is doing the best job he can do because his players arent good. Nobody really knew what he was capable of, but we were sold that he is a very intense, aggressive coach. I got a little excited when I heard that.The team looked very refreshed and energized for one or two preseason games then it was back to boring Berube style hockey. That continued into the regular season with the exception of the second panthers game and maybe the Rangers game. The second panthers game was the only game I actually saw a different, more agressive brand of hockey.So it may not be Hak's fault but he hasnt done anything to impress me yet.Dont worry when Couts comes back, I'll have someone to put all the blame on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Something is seriously Funked Up with this team right now. I can't believe the story - Claude Giroux berating the coaches on the bench during a game? - but the results sure look like it could've happened (or something equally bad between Hak and the team). All I know is the Flyers look out-of-sync and disinterested since the Buff game in Philly. And they didn't look that way during the first few weeks of the season when they were playing pretty well. If the Flyers are going thru a "players revolt" already... good lord I hope this story is b.s. [edit: @FlyersFan4Life thanks for re-posting the story. I was beginning to think I'd imagined it lol. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I still think we have this year and next as a remodel for this team and I'm ok with it. Need a first line lw. Need a second line lwNeed a top 9 right wingerNeed a 2c (schenn? , coots? ) doubtful. Coots with Laughton here is expendable for his skill set or even Laughton instead. B schenn ( still not sure what we have ) Defense??? Grenade and start over.Completely agree with all of that. For the right deal I'd move Coots or Laughton. I honestly don't think we'd miss either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Completely agree with all of that. For the right deal I'd move Coots or Laughton. I honestly don't think we'd miss either one.Have we won since Cooter got injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Sorry.... but that whole G vs Hakstol story makes no sense and is as about hearsay as a story could be. They are deliberately not playing Haks system and looking like fools during the process? If that is the case we have the dumbest group of players in the NHL all playing in Philly.10 games in and this team is revolting against the new coach? Sorry, not buying it... these posts remind me of a certain poster who had a friend that was tight w Homers family - everything he claimed as inside knowledge usually the exact opposite was proven to be true.If this were to be true (1) Hextall needs to address the team NOW and (2) Hextall needs to own up if Hak is in over his head. @Pods, no they have not won since Couts went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmdodgesrt4 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I severely doubt the loss of coots is the reason for this poor play. Coots isn't a 2c and the sooner we realize this the better. He needs to be 3c shut down center with good wingers to help his offense grow. Not put him on 2c because everyone thinks he's some offensive Dynamo. He hasn't proven it and he fits nicely at 3c. Laughton fits nicely at 3c as well. Laughton is a tad less defensively smart and a bit more offense in him then coots. Choose which one fits the needs and trade the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hakstol takes the blame for the Flyers 5th loss vs Edmonton, he states he should have taken a time out to let his team regroup. While it may be true that he should have used his time out, I have a hard time believing that it would have made a difference. The Oilers just wanted the game more expecially after McDavid went down and the moved into a faster gear. A gear the Flyers brass couldn't keep up with. This team needs youth and speed. I think Hextall has miscalculated the need for youth on this roster, and the attitude of "players need to earn their way to the NHL has become just old school" and it needs to end. Dallas, Chicago, Arizona, Edmonton, Vancouver are all teams with rookies and youth. For starters, put Manning on waivers and call up Gostisbehere. Find an injury to Lecavalier and place him on LTIR for the remainder of the season and play Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I think Hextall has miscalculated the need for youth on this roster, and the attitude of "players need to earn their way to the NHL has become just old school" and it needs to end. I'm not sure how that is going to help anything. There are already 6 guys on the roster 25 or younger. What does it accomplish to stock up on more kids that aren't ready to compete in the NHL? Are 22 year olds faster than 25 year olds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 so....personal accolades for ovechkin count. being consistently in the mix for lundqvist counts. leaning crazy heavy on price's ability to keep an outclassed team in a lot of games counts for subban. those are all "success", and massive contracts are appropriate. scoring at a rate unmatched by all but 2 or 3 players in the league over the previous 3 seasons does not count for giroux. that is still "failure". got it, sorry for the misunderstanding. You can go ahead and rely on "points" and that's all well and good. I'm looking at the team. Again, as I specifically stated, Ovechkin will be seen as a "failure" if he doesn't at least get to a Cup Final. That's using the same barometer as Giroux. I don't think he is worth $9.5M a season despite all of the personal accolades. I do think that being chosen "the best" in the league counts for something more than "more points scored during a period where other players were injured" - yes. I do think that having a team that is winning divisions and getting to Conference and Cup Finals on a consistent basis counts more than wallowing around with one round of playoffs in three going on four years - yes. And, yes, I do think that Ovechkin has been rewarded for not achieving very much at all beyond personal accolades and, again, is considered by many a "failure" for not achieving more for the team. I don't know that the same can be said for the players that you cited as examples (I think Subban is a work in progress and Lundqvist is undisputably one of the best goalies in the league but goalies don't score goals all that often). YMMV, which is fair. But if you don't see the obvious difference between that record of success and the record of "failure" under Giroux's "leadership" then I really don't know what to tell you. Yes, a lot has to do with Holmgren, but Homer himself said that his tenure was a "failure" because he didn't achieve the goal of the Cup. That's the bar that is set by the franchise itself not solely the fanbase. i wonder what would have happened if the flyers hadn't offered that contract to giroux, and the thing had ended up in arbitration. giroux's agent would say to the arbiter, "hey, my client has score more points over the last three seasons than alex ovechkin. i would say that makes his performance comparable, at the least, and would like his $9.53mil cap hit to be used as a baseline in these proceedings." Then take the one year $9.5M award and see where the chips fall. I don't see where that's a problem - assuming they would get it. Again, just one option for achieving exactly the same thing they have now - one playoff round in three going on four years. I think the Flyers would counter that Ovechkin got that contract he had just won the MVP award (and was on his way to his second), the Lindsay/Pearson (and was on his way to his second), Calder and Art Ross, scored 100+ points twice and 50+ goals twice (with the other being 92 points and 46 goals) while Giroux hasn't ever scored 100, never scored more than 30 in his career and had scored more than 25 twice. I do think they would point out that the Caps had just won their division after being fifth the year before and were embarking on a run of four first place division titles and a second over the next five years. And you think the arbiter would think "well, yes, of course Claude Giroux is exactly the same kind of player Ovechkin is!" Really? Well, fine, let's go with the pipe dream that the arbiter gives Giroux $9.5M for a year. If Giroux wanted to walk after that year and some other team wanted to pony up $9.5M for him - bully for him. I, frankly, don't believe he would have gotten that on the open market. But what, exactly, would the difference be for the Flyers in this situation? No playoffs? How is that materially different from their current situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Dallas, Chicago, Arizona, Edmonton, Vancouver are all teams with rookies and youth. As @aziz rightly pointed out - the Flyers have a lot of "youth" on the roster. And, quite frankly, of the five teams you've cited, Arizona (5-5-1) and Edmonton (5-8) aren't great examples and Chicago is in a cap hell created by giving their top players (who have at least won) huge contracts so they've been forced to play youngsters. Oh, and they're sixth in their division. If the Flyers had a Seguin or a Benn in the AHL, I think they'd be playing. But it's important to note the six veterans with 10+ seasons that they are playing regularly. And I think the seven 10+ year veterans - including the entire top line - for Vancouver makes their situation a little different as well. Nick Cousins isn't going to make any difference on this roster, especially not taking VLC's popcorn-serving role. I don't think Hextall has said "youth" needs to "earn" spots - I think he's said that they need time to properly develop their games at the pro level. I do think that's a big difference. That, and the fact that the cap/contract situation made it virtually impossible to do anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 There are already 6 guys on the roster 25 or younger. Just an interesting fact about age - we are the 4th oldest roster in the NHL. I was surprised when I read that this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Hakstol takes the blame for the Flyers 5th loss vs Edmonton, he states he should have taken a time out to let his team regroup. While it may be true that he should have used his time out, I have a hard time believing that it would have made a difference. The Oilers just wanted the game more expecially after McDavid went down and the moved into a faster gear. A gear the Flyers brass couldn't keep up with. This team needs youth and speed. I think Hextall has miscalculated the need for youth on this roster, and the attitude of "players need to earn their way to the NHL has become just old school" and it needs to end. Dallas, Chicago, Arizona, Edmonton, Vancouver are all teams with rookies and youth. For starters, put Manning on waivers and call up Gostisbehere. Find an injury to Lecavalier and place him on LTIR for the remainder of the season and play Cousins. I feel that Hakstol saying that statement is just a very calculated attempt to take the pressure off his players. Possibly earning some more respect from them in the process. I guess that could also be interpreted, by the crowd who subscribes to the rift theory, to mean he's trying to make amends. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I disagree. There's plenty of coaches that get instant results. Lavi, Bylsma, Lavi again, and Boudreau off the top of my head. It can go the other way too...Torts in Vancouver.Im not saying personell is not a problem, but some coaches can get a lot out of a team lacking talent. I was hoping Hak could do that but I guess not. I guess we'll just have to wait until he gets talent before we judge too harshly.What scares me is the starts to games. I believe that falls mostly on the coach. They lose 4 in a row, including buffalo twice, they get blown out the night before, they go into McDavid land, and they get outshot 19-2 in the first period??? WTF was your speach pregame Hak?I agree to a point but let's not pretend this only started w Hak... this goes back a while now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 I agree to a point but let's not pretend this only started w Hak... this goes back a while now....I know. I'm not saying he created the mess. He just hasnt done anything to clean it up yet. I'll give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 @radoranA paycheck is not a reward. It is compensation for work, based on how important the work is, and how well you do it. I'd say clearing a point per game for a few years is both important and a job well done. Doing your job better than 99.5% of your peers pretty well justifies getting paid better than 99.5% of them. That isn't frivolously hooking someone up, that is paying them based on their contribution as compared to other people doing the same job. Judging an individual's value based on what the larger organization did or didn't do is stupid. Very few hockey games are won by a single player. Mario lemieux couldn't win a cup until the penguins put enough talent around him to put them over the top. It won't be ovechkin's fault if the caps never find a decent goalie, a solid blue line, and a quality RW at the same time. It isn't giroux's fault the Flyer's depth at all positions has been consistently terrible throughout his career. The day my boss tells me I don't deserve a raise because the rest of my department sucks, well, that's the day I politely tell her she is nuts. The term in his deal is crazy. The per-year of it, though, is ball park for a player who put up the points he has. I can see it as a touch high, by maybe $500k, but if you think the team could have gotten away with $6mil or whatever for a player scoring at over a point per game in this day and age, then I'd say the same thing to you that I would my boss. Politely, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Have we won since Cooter got injured? Have we won since Timonen got hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Find Cause an injury to Lecavalier and place him on LTIR for the remainder of the season and play Cousins. Fixed it. Good post, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 seems to me we haven't won since Pronger got hurt. seriously...since Pronger went out for good it's been a pretty rapid spiral downhill for the Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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