activestick Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 The only thing that fix's this is expired bad contracts and draft picks ready to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 if you dont like my ideas fine but do you have a better plan that can make this team better? Better right now? No..the only way it can be better right now is to go the same old route that has us waiting for our defence to develop and more high end up front...trade all our prospects and picks away. Holmgren left us with a few good players and a bunch of bad contracts/washed up players. Only time will make that better. Patience grasshopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 What active said! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This team just, simply put, does NOT understand cap management. Homer was, obviously, god awful at it. But, it begs the question.... Homer had a cap management team. Are they still being employed!? Is Hexy still using any of this team? The GM can't do it all himself... he certainly gets the blame for listening to his teams, but I'm just wondering who are the numbers guys behind the moves Homer made, and are they still 'assisting' Hexy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Why does he have to compromise his long term vision just 15 games into a season with his coach? He's been active over the past year since he took over, slowly reshaping the roster, getting rid of the deadweight he can, and making smart draft picks.It's a multi-year project. It sucks as a fan. He's been dealt a number of cards, and building the team he wants will take time. Good stuff Brelic. We all hate watching this team fumble around every night but there's no quick fix for it. It'll take a few seasons to right the ship provided Hextall and Snider stay the course. If they don't...let's not even think about that. I'm not in the "it's all Homer's fault" camp because he followed a plan that had been in place for a long time, i.e. sign the big-name FA before somebody else does, spend to the limit and hope for the best. Draft-Shmaft we're gonna win it all this year!" The "plan" had another part that started I think in the Lindros era and was something like: "We spent so much, nobody else comes close, we poured in everything we had so therefore it HAS to work. It WILL work." Prying 88 away from Quebec took such an enormous number of assets (and cash) that the costs became the yardstick by which the team (and the expectations for it) was measured. Snider and Co. believed their hopes of winning the Cup were justified because of what it cost them over the summer. The job of actually winning games, winning 4 PO rounds was left to the coaches and in Snider's mind I'm sure he figured "I gave them the best available they ought to be able to produce a winner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 6) Trading JVR for Luke Schenn You know you're getting quality when you acquire a Leafs D-man castoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This team is bad, yes very bad, but the team the GM inherited was a playoff team. Seriously question, how long can we as fans blame Holmgren? I do not like a lot of moves he made trust me, but it's time for Hextall to put on his big boy pants and start making moves to solidify this team down the road. Yes re-building through the draft makes sense and all, but at what point do he actually start trading for roster players; ie ones that can play at the pro-level today? Bert, I hear you. It is painful. But let's be realistic for second. I realize you want good roster players. So do I. Watching this collection of invalids play is no fun. But to get decent roster players, you have to give up either the same decent roster players *or* promising young talent in the system. You just can't trade in your old, beat-up Chevy to buy a new Mercedes. Hell, you won't even get a decent Honda Accord for a beat-up Chevy. They don't have good players to give up. So you can scratch that option. And do you really want them to trade the high picks and prospects? Didn't this team travel this road over and over again, which is why they keep finding themselves at this pitiful state over and over again? I realize people want Hexy to start making moves and take ownership at this point. But what *can* he do now to make this team better overnight? I know it's not what you want to hear, but the reality is, Homer did really effed this team up. I am not saying this just for the sake of repeating it for a hundredth time. I know people tired of hearing about Holmgren's mistakes. This is just a hard cold reality. He would've made the moves to improve this team now if he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The "plan" had another part that started I think in the Lindros era and was something like: "We spent so much, nobody else comes close, we poured in everything we had so therefore it HAS to work. It WILL work." Prying 88 away from Quebec took such an enormous number of assets (and cash) that the costs became the yardstick by which the team (and the expectations for it) was measured. Snider and Co. believed their hopes of winning the Cup were justified because of what it cost them over the summer. The job of actually winning games, winning 4 PO rounds was left to the coaches and in Snider's mind I'm sure he figured "I gave them the best available they ought to be able to produce a winner." ^^^^^^ THIS!! ^^^^^^^^^ I think you hit the nail on the head here @canoli. Yes the Flyers had some success a few years later and even made it to the Finals a couple time of times. But the mindset was set back then. The ushering in of the salary cap further solidified the flawed thinking(philosophy) this team uses. Honestly I don't think the Flyers have ever recovered from the Lindros trade from a team philosophy perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Bert, I hear you. It is painful. But let's be realistic for second. I realize you want good roster players. So do I. Watching this collection of invalids play is no fun. But to get decent roster players, you have to give up either the same decent roster players *or* promising young talent in the system. You just can't trade in your old, beat-up Chevy to buy a new Mercedes. Hell, you won't even get a decent Honda Accord for a beat-up Chevy. They don't have good players to give up. So you can scratch that option. And do you really want them to trade the high picks and prospects? Didn't this team travel this road over and over again, which is why they keep finding themselves at this pitiful state over and over again? I realize people want Hexy to start making moves and take ownership at this point. But what *can* he do now to make this team better overnight? I know it's not what you want to hear, but the reality is, Homer did really effed this team up. I am not saying this just for the sake of repeating it for a hundredth time. I know people tired of hearing about Holmgren's mistakes. This is just a hard cold reality. He would've made the moves to improve this team now if he could. I know I know. I am/was just pissed. They came out of the gate in October and looked decent. Not great but good for what parts they had, and now this..... I honestly do not know who or what on this team could turn it around, but I just want effort, Win or loose, all I ask is that it is all left on the ice. I have no beef with the coaching or even the players, I just would like Hextall to attempt a good faith move. Looking through what is out there and what is on this roster it would be tough..... I guess for now we have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Bert, I hear you. It is painful. But let's be realistic for second. I realize you want good roster players. So do I. Watching this collection of invalids play is no fun. But to get decent roster players, you have to give up either the same decent roster players *or* promising young talent in the system. You just can't trade in your old, beat-up Chevy to buy a new Mercedes. Hell, you won't even get a decent Honda Accord for a beat-up Chevy. They don't have good players to give up. So you can scratch that option. And do you really want them to trade the high picks and prospects? Didn't this team travel this road over and over again, which is why they keep finding themselves at this pitiful state over and over again? I realize people want Hexy to start making moves and take ownership at this point. But what *can* he do now to make this team better overnight? I know it's not what you want to hear, but the reality is, Homer did really effed this team up. I am not saying this just for the sake of repeating it for a hundredth time. I know people tired of hearing about Holmgren's mistakes. This is just a hard cold reality. He would've made the moves to improve this team now if he could. I can't say it any better than this...... time to bite the bullet for the remainder of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I know I know. I am/was just pissed. They came out of the gate in October and looked decent. Not great but good for what parts they had, and now this..... I honestly do not know who or what on this team could turn it around, but I just want effort, Win or loose, all I ask is that it is all left on the ice. I have no beef with the coaching or even the players, I just would like Hextall to attempt a good faith move. Looking through what is out there and what is on this roster it would be tough..... I guess for now we have to wait and see. yup totally understand..... going back to the old broken down used car analogy. You can change the spark plugs, change the filters and oil. It might run ok for a while...but eventually it will break down again because it is after all an old broken down jalopy. Similiar to this team. New coach, new season, fresh start and a few good solid games..but if you don't fix the main problems, this team will eventually revert back to its old form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 You know you're getting quality when you acquire a Leafs D-man castoff. Ya....and JVR has carried the Leafs...all the way to the basement! If you guys want to cast off Reilly, we've got a 1st overall forward you can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I have no problem with where we are at b/c I truly expected this team to be bad. I never really believed they were a playoff team but what does concern me is some of the trends like the slow starts, heartless play and just flat out malaise for which they play the game. This team has been handicapped by the ghost of Homer and I don't think anyone can argue that. I'm just taking a wild guess here, but I bet you fans of the Avalanche, Jackets, Canes, Leafs, Flames, and a few others say something along the same lines as this about their team. So, I ask honestly, is it really slow starts, heartless play etc, or is this just what a bad NHL team looks like? The Flyers are definitely puzzling in how they play >.500 teams vs. <.500 teams - that, I just don't get. At some point there needs to be some inkling of the plan moving forward. We will know more once the prospects start getting their fair share of time w/ the big club. Until then I think most are just frustrated with actually having to go through the process - thanks again Homer! Bingo! The product stinks. There is no quick fix - at least not a sustainable one. This is the valley of the rebuild curve. How long it lasts depends on so many factors that it's hard to predict when we'll come out of it. Will the defensive prospects pan out? If so, how many? 1? 2? 5? Will we draft/sign/trade for legit top 6 firepower? There really isn't any help on the farm that you can say is legitimately top 6. Maybe Cousins. And I hope Konecny joins that list too. AK is probably middle six, so is Leier. So assuming we can pick up legitimate talent in the next few drafts that still puts us 4-5 years out for everything to come together (strictly from a drafting point of view). Whatever else Hextall can manage until then - trades, smart FA signings - might make the pain a little bit less. But it will be painful for a while. Yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Honestly I don't think the Flyers have ever recovered from the Lindros trade from a team philosophy perspective. Hopefully Hextall is turning it around. I don't like all his trades but so far his philosophy is playing out differently than the Same Ol' Same Ol' Flyers plan. He drafted good prospects and is holding onto them; he's resisting the temptation to use them as bargaining chips. The thing that concerns me most is if Hakstol can't find a way to win some games, get the Flyers to at least .500 the pressure on Hextall to deal some prospects may become unbearable. He may be forced to trade for at least one impact player, a LW for Giroux, a D-man who can bring some confidence and order back there, etc. We don't have any roster players who will fetch anyone like that; all we have to give are the prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 he's resisted the temptation to use them as bargaining chips And get this - he's actually *acquired* picks! He did his freakin' best to undo the damage that Homer did - going from 2 picks in the top 100 to 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The thing that concerns me most is if Hakstol can't find a way to win some games, get the Flyers to at least .500 the pressure on Hextall to deal some prospects may become unbearable. He may be forced to trade for at least one impact player, a LW for Giroux, a D-man who can bring some confidence and order back there, etc. We don't have any roster players who will fetch anyone like that; all we have to give are the prospects. And that my friend is a very legitamate concern. The ol' knee jerk reaction. Hexy must resist whatever temptation/pressure Snider throws his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 we've got a 1st overall forward you can have. No way....they can't have Vinny he's their best popcorn maker. They will have to sweeten that offer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Ya....and JVR has carried the Leafs...all the way to the basement! If you guys want to cast off Reilly, we've got a 1st overall forward you can have. Don't be trying to steal our 1st overall draft pick this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Don't be trying to steal our 1st overall draft pick this year! Don't worry you know the routine the Oilers already have dibs on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 came across this stat somewhere today: Flyers are 5-1 when they score first.They're 0-9 when the opposition scores first. I'm not exactly sure what it tells us but that's a stark contrast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 came across this stat somewhere today: Flyers are 5-1 when they score first.They're 0-9 when the opposition scores first. I'm not exactly sure what it tells us but that's a stark contrast. Score first... if you want to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 In honor of Rad who has been absent today!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm just taking a wild guess here, but I bet you fans of the Avalanche, Jackets, Canes, Leafs, Flames, and a few others say something along the same lines as this about their team. Can confirm. Good friend of mine is an Avs fan. Thanks for the effort last night Flyers. His team's been mostly in a tailspin this season as well. In fact, they still have fewer points than we do. I was looking at some advanced stats on the Avs last week and their D ALL ranked near the bottom in Corsi and Fenwick. Their D has been atrocious. If there was ever a game I would have bet money we would NOT be shutout... it would have been last night's game. Just goes to show... well, I don't know what it goes to show actually. This season was over before it began, for me... Look forward and hope for some signs of encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Look forward and hope for some signs of encouragement. This is really the key for me too bak... a glimmer of something to hang our collective hopes on would be great. This team is just not a confident bunch whatsoever and it really is tough to watch. In four years we could have a stellar defense if the group of prospects are as good as most think. Until then the road is going ot be bumpy... Who knows maybe Jake will have a goal by then! I am shocked there have been no " strip the C from G " posts to date... lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This is really the key for me too bak... a glimmer of something to hang our collective hopes on would be great. This team is just not a confident bunch whatsoever and it really is tough to watch. In four years we could have a stellar defense if the group of prospects are as good as most think. Until then the road is going ot be bumpy... Who knows maybe Jake will have a goal by then! These games have been super boring. That's really the toughest part. They're frustrating and very boring to watch. All Summer I was really jonesin for hockey to be back ... and while I'm super happy that it's hockey season, there's a bit of an edge to it cause my team sucks. Now... I just want something to have hope about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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