Coots still 2c and b schenn benched manning in

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Sounds like a joke at a bar. I liked this coach signing but now I'm wondering. He might be over his head.

[King Knut]

Sounds like a joke at a bar. I liked this coach signing but now I'm wondering. He might be over his head.

 

Just went through this deep inside another thread but the team simply has a significantly better record with Coots in the lineup (mostly playing 2C) than they do without him. 

 

1-4-2 without him

5-4-1 with him

 

Seems like you gotta play him.

 

HOWEVER!  Benching B Schenn and putting Manning in ANY NHL Lineup?  Hakstol's on his own there.  Manning's atrocious and B.seems to be the only guy who can score.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I don't get the Couturier hate. The guy has been pigeonholed into a checking role his entire career and now that he's getting a chance to man the 2nd line, people still complain. Let him get accustomed to being in an offensive role. The guy has literally been programmed to start the majority of his starts in the defensive zone, so it's going to take time to change the defensive mentality to an offensive mentality. So far, he's looked pretty damned good. He gets the Hakstol system and that's going to be huge going forward. Get him some wingers who also understand the system and he could really take off. My only questioning right now of Hakstol is why he moved Schenn off of Couturier's right side. Those two had chemistry together and they started to turn a corner. First thing I would have done is put the two of them back together again and see what happens. 

[canoli]

Let him get accustomed to being in an offensive role.

 

 

Good advice. He's not hurting anybody in the 2C slot so let him work through it. (Possibly BSchenn but apparently Flyers' HCs are not authorized to play him there). At worst by the end of the year Couturier remains a defensive forward and a damn good one at that.

 

I can't decide who's the last Flyer I worry about Giroux or Couturier.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Good advice. He's not hurting anybody in the 2C slot so let him work through it. (Possibly BSchenn but apparently Flyers' HCs are not authorized to play him there). At worst by the end of the year Couturier remains a defensive forward and a damn good one at that.

 

I can't decide who's the last Flyer I worry about Giroux or Couturier.

I worry about neither guy. They always get the job done. As for Couturier, if he doesn't develop into that legitmate scoring 2nd line center, you've a got Michal Handzus-esque center on your hands who you know will give you 20 solid minutes every night. 

[brelic]

I don't get the Couturier hate.

 

I don't think anyone hates him... that's a pretty strong word! Matt Cooke - I can safely say I hated him and I never met the guy.

 

I know I personally want him to be the best NHL player he can be.

 

In watching him, Couturier just reacts so slowly to the game in the offensive zone. 300 games in, 23 years old in a few weeks. I really think what you see is what you get in terms of his offensive game. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just not 2nd line NHL center material. He will probably have one or two 40+ point years, but I just can't see his entire game all of a sudden transforming into some offensive dynamo, right? Nothing about his game suggests he's on the edge of breaking out.

 

So realistically, we are looking for a 2nd line center. We might have one in Travis Konecny or Nick Cousins. Maybe Scott Laughton? I think the ship has sailed on Brayden Schenn as 2nd line C. They seem to prefer him at wing.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I don't think anyone hates him... that's a pretty strong word! Matt Cooke - I can safely say I hated him and I never met the guy.

I know I personally want him to be the best NHL player he can be.

In watching him, Couturier just reacts so slowly to the game in the offensive zone. 300 games in, 23 years old in a few weeks. I really think what you see is what you get in terms of his offensive game. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just not 2nd line NHL center material. He will probably have one or two 40+ point years, but I just can't see his entire game all of a sudden transforming into some offensive dynamo, right? Nothing about his game suggests he's on the edge of breaking out.

So realistically, we are looking for a 2nd line center. We might have one in Travis Konecny or Nick Cousins. Maybe Scott Laughton? I think the ship has sailed on Brayden Schenn as 2nd line C. They seem to prefer him at wing.

I don't understand why they're so hesitant on not using Cousins. He could be another Prospal or Sharp if given the opportunity.

[intheslot]

Cooter should be traded  asap... extra bag of pucks would be useful..

[brelic]

Cooter should be traded  asap... extra bag of pucks would be useful..

 

I'm not sure if it's directed at me, but it's not even close to what I am saying.

 

It feels like they are forcing him into a role that is away from his strongest play and value. 

[canoli]

You're right Brelic I don't see "about to break out" offensively either but I still think it's too early for WYSIWYG. Give him the season, the Flyers have time to spare.

[intheslot]

Not directed at you .. forgot the ninji

[murraycraven]

You're right Brelic I don't see "about to break out" offensively either but I still think it's too early for WYSIWYG. Give him the season, the Flyers have time to spare.

 

could not agree more canoli.... this season is the perfect time to figure out what we have in terms of players.   

[AJgoal]

I think that's part of what is going on with the seemingly random changes going on in the lineup on a regular basis. Hakstol testing out where players can play, as part of a strategy to determine who to keep going forward, where to play them, and who isn't going to fit. The team has 8-9 centers, 5-6 right wings, and 2 left wings on the roster. Someone either has to show ability on the left side, or has to get moved for someone who can. And Hakstol has to find the guys who are buying in and able to play to the way he wants the team to. It might explain keeping Manning in. Seeing if he can grow into an NHL role, even through all of the pains he's having. If his problems are mental, they should be correctable, and maybe that's the goal. If they're physical, maybe Hakstol/Hextall feel he needs NHL game experience to work on those issues he's having. -shrug- Or maybe the coach and GM are just crazy.

[brelic]

You're right Brelic I don't see "about to break out" offensively either but I still think it's too early for WYSIWYG. Give him the season, the Flyers have time to spare.

 

That's a smart approach. I do want him to be the best player he can be at this level, and what I see (and it has been well documented) is that our team is better on the PK, gives up fewer scoring chances 5 on 5, and has a better corsi % for (by a statistically significant reduction of shot attempts against, not by an increase in the chances for) when he is in the lineup. 

 

What I don't really see is an increase in offensive output by him or his line. It could be linemates, but if he is not going to be an offensive catalyst, it's probably better to use his strengths and find someone else who has shown offensive upside and try to maximize that. 

[jackhole]

Move him to wing;)

[canoli]

but if he is not going to be an offensive catalyst, it's probably better to use his strengths and find someone else

 

I hope he watches the tape from last night. He had at least 5 good, open looks at the net with the puck on his stick - looks he created either by carrying the puck in or by slipping the D, opening up a seam and receiving the pass. All 5 plays he had at least 3 or 4 big steps of open ice in front of him and every time he went east-west instead of taking it to the net.

 

I don't know if it's lack of confidence, his not-so-great foot speed or something else but his game right now - look up "playing it safe" in the hockey dictionary and it's Sean Couturier's face.

 

I hope he figures it out soon b/c you're right eventually the Flyers need to shore up that 2C position.

[icehole]

I don't think anyone hates him... that's a pretty strong word! Matt Cooke - I can safely say I hated him and I never met the guy.

I know I personally want him to be the best NHL player he can be.

In watching him, Couturier just reacts so slowly to the game in the offensive zone. 300 games in, 23 years old in a few weeks. I really think what you see is what you get in terms of his offensive game. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just not 2nd line NHL center material. He will probably have one or two 40+ point years, but I just can't see his entire game all of a sudden transforming into some offensive dynamo, right? Nothing about his game suggests he's on the edge of breaking out.

So realistically, we are looking for a 2nd line center. We might have one in Travis Konecny or Nick Cousins. Maybe Scott Laughton? I think the ship has sailed on Brayden Schenn as 2nd line C. They seem to prefer him at wing.

I hate him as a Flyer for the same reason I hate the Eagles, NFL, and Crosby. Let things be what they are. You have to be an Eagles fan in philadelphia right? If not, which team do you like...there's no way you just cant love the NFL (unless you're a weirdo) right? Crosby is so great and you must praise him right? Couturier is a defensive stud, and he's only 22, and he can grow a great beard right? It's so over the top that I build up a hatred toward it all.

As for Couturier, I haven't seen him do much of anything since his first season. I remember the turning point for me. I think it was the third game of the season 3 years ago? They were playing buffalo. He was at the end of a shift, he got to the redline, but instead of firing it deep, he just made a really weak pass to nobody. His teammate were changing and buffalo went on a breakaway. I remember thinking "wtf was that?"

Since then, he disappears for long stretches where you don't even know if he is playing or scratched. That's when I would hear how much of a defensive guru he is. Then Malkin hits 3 posts in one game and all I hear is how good couts was in shutting him down that night.

A couple weeks ago, he didn't do anything in the game besides not getting back to tie up the guy that scored the ot winner. He still was praised for having a good game. I can't stand that.

Meanwhile, he can't skate, isn't tough, and hasn't done anything. He has 1 goal and 2 assists at a -4 and regularly has 0 shots on goal. King Knut told me the other day that all couts does is win. I still don't know if he was joking or not.

I'm glad to see people are finally coming around on this guy. It's too bad that we haven't even started his hefty contract yet.

[brelic]

I hope he watches the tape from last night. He had at least 5 good, open looks at the net with the puck on his stick - looks he created either by carrying the puck in or by slipping the D, opening up a seam and receiving the pass. All 5 plays he had at least 3 or 4 big steps of open ice in front of him and every time he went east-west instead of taking it to the net.

 

Yes, I've noticed that too in his game. He rarely drives the net. It's something I've noticed in Voracek's game this year as well. Coots also does not shoot nearly enough. He's got the fewest shots among forwards - and that includes Umberger and Bellemare who have played fewer games than he. 

 

I hope he figures it out soon b/c you're right eventually the Flyers need to shore up that 2C position.

 

And maybe that is exactly what they're doing this year by giving him that chance. He doesn't look like he will be that guy, but you just don't know until you give it a real chance. I'm confident Konecny can be that guy in the long term - and possibly 1C when he and G criss-cross career paths. In the short term, we'll see what Couturier gives us, and maybe try out some more NHL-ready prospects like Cousins.

[OccamsRazor]

Coots also does not shoot nearly enough. He's got the fewest shots among forwards - and that includes Umberger and Bellemare who have played fewer games than he.

 

Yes and a lot of the times he is just over thinking things trying to get fancy and look for the perfect shot instead of keeping it simple and just do like Ghost has done just put it on net and hope for a juicy rebound.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

I believe next year we will see konecky as 2c. I think and I'll

Get blasted for this but I can see coots and b schenn being moved for fire power on wings and picks. We have Laughton who to be honest has impressed me with limited ice time with not so great wingers.

[OccamsRazor]

I'll say this Coots is the least of this team's issue i feel he is being given a chance to find his offense and see if he can take that role and run with it. It will take time for him to get out of the defensive mind set...and i don't ever feel he will get completely away from it i'm just afraid it is what he is. Which isn't a bad thing.

 

And in the end the worst case is they find out he is best suited for the 3rd line instead of the 2nd. And once you compare him (22) to what Carl Soderberg (30) just sign for this past off season (4.75mill for 5 more season after this)...

 

 

 

....i think it will be a hell of a bargain. Who would you rather have Coots at 4.3mill or Soderberg at 4.75 mill?? I'll take Coots all day long.

[mojo1917]

I believe next year we will see konecky as 2c. I think and I'll

Get blasted for this but I can see coots and b schenn being moved for fire power on wings and picks. We have Laughton who to be honest has impressed me with limited ice time with not so great wingers.

RE: Laughton...you can't teach speed and that kid thinks the game  quickly and moves his feet quickly, he's got some snarl in his game too, not the prototypical tough guy but he plays a heavy game.  I have been impressed with him as well.

 

Couturier needs to shoot more so I can find out whether he's worked on his shot .  He had a decent release in Drummondville.  I think when he's had his chances to make plays he hasn't had people around to take the pass...I wish they would move Schenn back to his wing. in the limited time he spent there last season they seemed to "get" each other.  It was the best both players looked. 

 

I want to see more than !/4 th of a season from him in the role before i write him off.  

[AJgoal]

I like Laughton's game a lot. If he can grow into the 2nd line center role, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. He's got good speed, good size, and good sense. I'm not quite ready to give up on Couturier yet, he needs to get more confident shooting the puck and driving the net, as has been said. That said, if he turns into a great, shutdown 3C type, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, either.

[King Knut]

You guys are all nuts.

When everyone is scoring EXCEPT Coots, let's talk. In the mean time he's just one of 12 Fwds who aren't putting it in the net and to me that's evidence of a more systematic problem, most likely the fact that they're still learning it.

In the mean time they get many more points in games when he plays this year and when no one's scoring, that speaks volumes and should be enough to shut us all up.

[RJ8812]

Coots has been garbage this year. Yes, he's played well defensively, but he should be doing more offensively