Flyers/Habs/Oilers rumour

[radoran]

meanwhile, giroux has 11 points in his last 10 games.  the both of them struggled inexplicably and badly out of the gate, but look to have settled down and gotten to effective work.

But, really, haven't bad starts been the hallmark of this team for at least three years now?

And it's fine to get back to a ppg pace a quarter of the way into the season, but those are self created holes that need to be climbed out of and sometimes have been insurmountable.

[aziz]

@radoran

 

i know, you are right.  i wish i knew what the problem was for this team in october/november.  

[Podein25]

By chance does this rumor have an E level?

e42

[radoran]

@radoran

i know, you are right. i wish i knew what the problem was for this team in october/november.

IMO they just don't have that edge, that fire that I'd like to see. A hunger. A deep seated burning desire.

That's not at all just the Flyers, either.

It's what a Primeau, a Pronger, a Clarke brought - to put it in Flyer terms. It's what a Toews and Tavares brings. A Sakic. A Messier.

It's also not at all exclusive to Giroux, and I'm not meaning to call him out on it. There are some generational names there.

But I do want to see more Flyer hockey in the old school sense. What Brindy talked about in his HOF speech.

Maybe it's just the modern athlete and maybe I'm just old.

But that's what I think they are lacking. It's not all about talent. It's about WANT.

[aziz]

@radoran

 

here here and bravo.  well said.

[King Knut]

that's what im thinking, since he has the most value and he will probably fit better up there since they are more of an offensive scheme team and coach and he doesnt fit into hakstol's defensive scheme which is probably why he's struggling here.

it's the same with carter, he played better in la then here because of the scheme.

What a sad statement for the Flyers. Should really effing tell us something about our "Schemes"

[King Knut]

The cap space angle is BS. They have to send someone down to clear a roster spot before they can activate Streit. That will relieve the cap space issue. If Umberger/Gagner isn't ready to play, they just place one of them on LTIR to be able to keep Cousins and McDonald up. It's not rocket surgery.

Agreed. The only cap space they need to clear is Ghost's salary since they can't send him down at this point. You don't trade Voracek for that.

I think if anyone it's Brayden Schenn. Could be Simmer, but he's got a decent cap hit for a while. Schenn is RFA soon and they won't be able to give him a raise. Schenn makes sense.

[King Knut]

@briere48

don't look now, but the flyers are 5-3-2 in their last 10, with voracek putting up 9 points over that span. season totals are a mess, because the entire squad crapped the bed for a month, but the trend is actually in a good direction, both for the team in general and voracek in specific. if i wanted to really slant it, i could point out voracek has actually been at a point per game pace over the last 9 games.

you do seem to feel a calling for pointing out all of the bad things, and i'm not gonna try to change that. you think the team should be perpetually stripped of everything for a 5 year rebuild. i hope that doesn't happen. voracek is, in my mind, a top 15 RW in this league, and the flyers aren't likely to replace that through prospects or the draft anytime soon. you move him and you open a hole that will take years to fill, at best.

you hope for your scenario, i'll hope for mine.

But but but goals! What else matters?

Can Montreal even fit him in under their cap?

[elmatus]

Can Montreal even fit him in under their cap?

 

I doubt it. It would take some pretty substantial tinkering, and Bergevin has no reason to undertake such an overhaul. It's also not his style at all. He's very conservative in his approach to trading.

 

I really don't know who the Habs would be gunning for. It's not like they need much help this year. They do have weakness at RW though, so most likely that would be part of it. The Oil have only one RW of note, and we have quite a few.

 

As for PHI, I imagine any trade on our side is salary shedding for picks and possibly prospects. Like I said before though, if somehow that pick is the Oilers 1st, it could be worth consideration.

[terp]

Agreed. The only cap space they need to clear is Ghost's salary since they can't send him down at this point. You don't trade Voracek for that.

I think if anyone it's Brayden Schenn. Could be Simmer, but he's got a decent cap hit for a while. Schenn is RFA soon and they won't be able to give him a raise. Schenn makes sense.

I think it could be Streit. Perhaps with Gostisbehere's emergence he's expendable. He's an attractive commodity too (leader, skater, veteran, pp specialist). One more year after this season at @ $5mm. A lot to like as trade bait.

[flyercanuck]

@terp

 

If and when healthy.

[terp]

@terp

If and when healthy.

Right. Which affects the order of things perhaps. I don't know of course but maybe there isn't a lot of risk for a team to take him before he's played a few games.

On second thought: maybe they can avoid activating him by sending him to Allentown for conditioning.

[Howie58]

Howdy:

 

The resurgence of our the team and third line is interesting from a "trade bait" perspective.  Guys like Read...even VanDV, become more marketable.  I am not saying they get traded...just saying that the parts are more valuable than a month again.

 

Howie

[OccamsRazor]

Howdy:

 

The resurgence of our the team and third line is interesting from a "trade bait" perspective.  Guys like Read...even VanDV, become more marketable.  I am not saying they get traded...just saying that the parts are more valuable than a month again.

 

Howie

 

 

Plus it just shifts leverage in the Flyer's direction so as long as they keep on winning there will be no reason for Hexy to pull the trigger on and crazy deal.

 

Leverage is always good.

[radoran]

If the Flyers picked up Streit in this situation - a 35+ player with a $5M price tage that is injured with an injury that could end his career, if not significantly reduce his mobility - we'd have a conniption around here.

He's got to get back and play EFFECTIVELY before he's gonna be worth anything.

[doom88]

If the Flyers picked up Streit in this situation - a 35+ player with a $5M price tage that is injured with an injury that could end his career, if not significantly reduce his mobility - we'd have a conniption around here.

He's got to get back and play EFFECTIVELY before he's gonna be worth anything.

Chicago felt differently about Timonen.

[flyercanuck]

@doom88

 

Warrior!

[doom88]

@doom88

Warrior!

The ultimate!

[radoran]

Chicago felt differently about Timonen.

And does chicago have Timonen on their cap for $5M this season?

No.

Did Timknen have an injury that could prevent him from pushing off or, indeed, skating effectively?

No.

Again, in THIS SITUATION it is much different. If Streit was a UFA after this year, it changes things.

He's not.

[doom88]

Did Timknen have an injury that could prevent him from pushing off or, indeed, skating effectively?

No.

Does death count?

The only big differences are 1M more for Timonen and more years for Streit. Someone will want Streit. Probably several teams.

[OccamsRazor]

Someone will want Streit. Probably several teams.

I agree if he can come back and prove he can play someone more than likely give up a 1st for him. Only if he can prove he is over the injury.

[radoran]

Does death count?

The only big differences are 1M more for Timonen and more years for Streit. Someone will want Streit. Probably several teams.

The big difference is Streit's contract and Streit's injury.

Aside from that, it's almost exactly the same.

But, if your point is that if Streit proves himself recovered enough that he has value, I completely agree with you.

As that was my point in the first place.

If Streit is still undergoing physical therapy and isn't on NHL ice, I just don't think he has anywhere near the value Timonen brought.

[King Knut]

And does chicago have Timonen on their cap for $5M this season?

No.

Did Timknen have an injury that could prevent him from pushing off or, indeed, skating effectively?

No.

Again, in THIS SITUATION it is much different. If Streit was a UFA after this year, it changes things.

He's not.

Timmy had an injury that could flat

Out kill him. Isn't that worse? Close enough in my book.

[radoran]

Timmy had an injury that could flat

Out kill him. Isn't that worse? Close enough in my book.

 

Are you deliberately missing the point? The Streit and Timonen situations are not at all similar in any important way.

 

That said, if Streit is back on NHL ice (as Timonen was, practicing) then he has value - and probably more value than Timonen, like a low first rounder from a contender looking for help on the blue line.

 

If not, he doesn't - certainly not in the "two seconds" that Timonen got..

 

And Streit also has another year on his contract. Timonen didn't.

 

Chicago would not have dealt for Timonen if he was going to be on their cap for $5M this season.

 

So we can go on explaining how this apple is almost exactly like this orange.

 

Except that it isn't.

[AJgoal]

Are you deliberately missing the point? The Streit and Timonen situations are not at all similar in any important way.

That said, if Streit is back on NHL ice...

he should be, long before the deadline. 3-6 weeks from mid-November.

Chicago would not have dealt for Timonen if he was going to be on their cap for $5M this season.

Well, no. Given their cap issues, they wouldn't have even picked up a fully healthy, 40-point Timonen last year if his deal extended to this season. But if he's unable to play due to injury, he wouldn't be on their cap this year. If cap space for a healthy player wasn't an issue, they might have still made the deal, but for two conditional picks instead of one, for example.