Flyers and leaving points on the table

[King Knut]

5 minutes ago, icehole said:

1995-2007 was my prime era.  Big tough guys with skill.

 

one line of big tough guys with skill, Recchi and 3 lines of whatever could be found that sounded half decent.  

one defenseman.  

no goalies (except Boosh who was promptly thrown under the bus)

 

Such a roller coaster of mostly negative emotions and empty promise.  The franchise seemed like it just expected to win because hey... Lindros and LeClair!  Right?  Ammirgiht? Comeon!

 

2000 and 2004 were good years and fun to watch.  The first ended in tragedy and the second, I was proud of them, but they were clearly out matched and just hanging on for dear life.  1997 almost broke me from hockey.  I could barely watch a game in 1998 and the playoffs didn't disappoint.

 

2004 was a bit of a fluke for that 'era' because you actually had two lines to speak of in the Roenick and Primeau lines.  

But even so, just like all the other years of that era, the team just wasn't a complete thought.  It was two lines and a bunch of after thoughts, especially in the back end.  As a result (and this was true of the entire era IMHO) the teams were expected to succeed easily, but in fact were outmatched much of the time and only could manage any success by playing well above and beyond what they should have been able to do.  Everyone on the team essentially had to be Rocky and 'go the distance' against much better competition.  In reality, Rocky just wasn't as good as Apollo and had no business being there.  Also in reality, Rocky effin' lost.  Oh and he's kinda short actually. 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

Homer stumbled about chasing dragons and left us where we are now.

 

No argument here.  What really gets me is that Homer seemed to have some idea of how to do this early on.  He started like a ball of fire.  

 

Something happened after the finals year.  It's almost like he had a stroke.  His moves became increasingly erratic and made less and less sense.  

He'd do something crazy, but seemingly forward thinking like the Richards and Carter deals, but then ruin them with the Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky deals. 

He'd make a genius move like bringing in Jagr, then a moronic move like letting him go so he could chase Parise and Suter.  

 

I've rambled on this extensively in another thread, but I do believe that was the moment he lost his damn mind and from which the team has been struggling to recover ever since.  Everything after that, Luke Schenn, MacDonald, VLC... was frankly just bonkers.  

Mason and Emery.  Those were smart moves... But only necessary because of a pair of completely moronic moves.  I still say if Mason hadn't ruined his hip in 2010 (and I half blame the team for that--Cortisone will destroy your bones) this team would have beaten the Blackhawks in the finals.   

Actually, even though they ended up well, both the Mason and Emery moves were kind of desperation moves.  Both their careers were utterly on the ropes when Homer brought them in (both times for Razor actually).  

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

My kitchen is painted orange

 

Big deal, I have a sheep with orange stripes. 

[icehole]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

one line of big tough guys with skill, Recchi and 3 lines of whatever could be found that sounded half decent.  

one defenseman.  

no goalies (except Boosh who was promptly thrown under the bus)

 

Such a roller coaster of mostly negative emotions and empty promise.  The franchise seemed like it just expected to win because hey... Lindros and LeClair!  Right?  Ammirgiht? Comeon!

 

2000 and 2004 were good years and fun to watch.  The first ended in tragedy and the second, I was proud of them, but they were clearly out matched and just hanging on for dear life.  1997 almost broke me from hockey.  I could barely watch a game in 1998 and the playoffs didn't disappoint.

 

2004 was a bit of a fluke for that 'era' because you actually had two lines to speak of in the Roenick and Primeau lines.  

But even so, just like all the other years of that era, the team just wasn't a complete thought.  It was two lines and a bunch of after thoughts, especially in the back end.  As a result (and this was true of the entire era IMHO) the teams were expected to succeed easily, but in fact were outmatched much of the time and only could manage any success by playing well above and beyond what they should have been able to do.  Everyone on the team essentially had to be Rocky and 'go the distance' against much better competition.  In reality, Rocky just wasn't as good as Apollo and had no business being there.  Also in reality, Rocky effin' lost.  Oh and he's kinda short actually. 

 

 

 

Maybe I'm falling into the rocky cliche then because I liked those teams.  You're right...most years they were just slightly overmatched.  I think that's what drew me in.  Their style of hockey was getting them to the top of the league, not talent.  In the end, talent won.

Those teams felt like teams I could bond with also.  I don't know if you remember the picture with the guys in leather jackets on motorcycles (I think it was a roenick team).  It's a little cheesy, but they looked bad ass and I felt like that was my team.  One thing I do like about Hextall's plan, if it works, it will work with guys that have been on the team for years.  It won't be with a guy who won 3 cups with Chicago and now he's trying to ride out his career with a team he doesn't really have any ties to.  Theses guys will be flyers from the start and we can claim them as ours.

[Lindbergh31]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

No argument here.  What really gets me is that Homer seemed to have some idea of how to do this early on.  He started like a ball of fire.  

 

Something happened after the finals year.  It's almost like he had a stroke.  His moves became increasingly erratic and made less and less sense.  

He'd do something crazy, but seemingly forward thinking like the Richards and Carter deals, but then ruin them with the Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky deals. 

He'd make a genius move like bringing in Jagr, then a moronic move like letting him go so he could chase Parise and Suter.  

 

I've rambled on this extensively in another thread, but I do believe that was the moment he lost his damn mind and from which the team has been struggling to recover ever since.  Everything after that, Luke Schenn, MacDonald, VLC... was frankly just bonkers.  

Mason and Emery.  Those were smart moves... But only necessary because of a pair of completely moronic moves.  I still say if Mason hadn't ruined his hip in 2010 (and I half blame the team for that--Cortisone will destroy your bones) this team would have beaten the Blackhawks in the finals.   

Actually, even though they ended up well, both the Mason and Emery moves were kind of desperation moves.  Both their careers were utterly on the ropes when Homer brought them in (both times for Razor actually).  

Holmgren did start off with a bang when he took over the GM position from Clarkie, trading and signing Hartnell and Timonen. I think what steered his ship sideways with the thoughts of cups coming quicker if he did a quick fix was getting to the 2008 conference finals and 2010 Stanley Cup finals plus having an overbearing owner talking in his ear. I wonder what Holmgren would have been like as a GM if the Flyers didn't have that run to the conference finals in 2008. Would have he thought that they're lots of players away from contending or a couple but I guess we'll never know. I just hope Hexie sticks to his guns when it comes to dealing with Snider. He seems to be guiding the Flyers the right way and hopefully he achieves the ultimate goal in bringing another championship to the city of Brotherly Love and their fanbase.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

3 hours ago, icehole said:

There ya go!  Out of curiosity, what do you hang your hat on when arguing with other fans?  We can't talk championships with most teams.  We're not very good right now.  So besides franchise success, what's your ammo?

 

Hmmm...I didn't see anything about a hat.  I did see glasses though.  They hang off his ears.  I've never seen Radoran but I would guess his ears are shaped like the Flying P   

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

[radoran]

6 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

Big deal, I have a sheep with orange stripes. 

 

You should maybe get that looked at...

 

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 

So that is what Rad looks like. Hhhhmmmm i was off slightly.......

[Claude Monet]

That 2004 team would have won the Cup if the blue line didn't lose their entire top 4. 

 

Rico, the drunk Russian guy, the dude with the yellow visor and someone else. They had Sami Kapanen playing D.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

4 hours ago, Claude Monet said:

 

 

Rico, the drunk Russian guy, the dude with the yellow visor and someone else.

 

That's how I remember them, too!

[AJgoal]

5 hours ago, Claude Monet said:

That 2004 team would have won the Cup if the blue line didn't lose their entire top 4. 

 

Rico, the drunk Russian guy, the dude with the yellow visor and someone else.

 

Therien?

[OccamsRazor]

Eric Weinrich was the one who had the yellow visor.

 

That was Kim Johnsson, Danny Markov, Mattias Timander and Malakov.

 

And someone else i'm forgetting Rico and Therien were hurt before the playoffs.

 

Edit: I think Seidenberg played some too.

[flyercanuck]

Pitkanen

[King Knut]

22 hours ago, icehole said:

Maybe I'm falling into the rocky cliche then because I liked those teams.  You're right...most years they were just slightly overmatched.  I think that's what drew me in.  Their style of hockey was getting them to the top of the league, not talent.  In the end, talent won.

Those teams felt like teams I could bond with also.  I don't know if you remember the picture with the guys in leather jackets on motorcycles (I think it was a roenick team).  It's a little cheesy, but they looked bad ass and I felt like that was my team.  One thing I do like about Hextall's plan, if it works, it will work with guys that have been on the team for years.  It won't be with a guy who won 3 cups with Chicago and now he's trying to ride out his career with a team he doesn't really have any ties to.  Theses guys will be flyers from the start and we can claim them as ours.

 

The thing about those teams having to win with "effort" is that there was barely ever a system (Roger's teams had a decent system, but then cancer happened).  They were trying hard and trying to overcome superior skill, but they were also trying to overcome themselves and a lack of knowing what they were all supposed to be doing.  i.e. who was covering what in what situation and where you were going to be able to send that outlet pass and know exactly who was going to be there when... this is what winning hockey is now and that's how working hard can overcome superior skill without being rabidly overmatched.

 

Those teams worked incredibly harder than they had to and they got shut down consistently by teams that were either inferior on the whole (The Devils) or Superior, but still beatable (Redwings) because the Flyers simply weren't on the same page the way their opposition was.  

 

I want a team that's together.  That way, when you lose a Lindros or a Primeau or a Roenick or a Pronger, or a Forseberg, the wheels don't come off the wagon and the team can be successful and competitive for years and years and not just through desperation and prayer.  

 

[King Knut]

13 hours ago, Claude Monet said:

That 2004 team would have won the Cup if the blue line didn't lose their entire top 4. 

 

Rico, the drunk Russian guy, the dude with the yellow visor and someone else. They had Sami Kapanen playing D.

See Sami Kananen playing D.  That is a really amazing memory for a lot of us.  That's Flyers hockey.  Kappy doing whatever it took for his team to help them win.   In reality, Sami playing D was crap and really really bad for that team.  They had no business getting as far as they did. 

 

Kim Johnsson was healthy and he was the #3 guy at the time.  He was the heir apparent to Rico... until Profit sharing forced the Flyers to pay the the Wild to help price him out of our wallets.  

 

You're absolutely right about them though.  They would have taken the Bolts and the Flames fairly easily I think.  Primeau tying game 6 and Gagne winning it in OT were two of the most amazing moments in Flyers history to me.  It was a great year for that though.  Kappy getting knocked silly and Primeau trying to drag him to the bench with his stick to get a change out and JR winning the game moments later in OT.   Just fantastic stuff.  The stuff of legends.  I loved it. 

 

I'm also sick of hoping and praying for stuff like that.  Let's just be good for a while.  I'm so tired of desperate.  

[King Knut]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

Pitkanen

 

We traded Joni and Sanderson for Smith and Lupul, right?  

Did we have to give Smith a new contract?  

 

Lupul helped get us to the conf. finals, smith helped captain the team back from oblivion.  But I still can't shake the feeling we gave up on Joni too soon.  Injuries kind of plagued him I guess.