How Long is Too Long?

[WordsOfWisdom]

I'm a fan of both baseball and hockey. In MLB, 10 teams make the playoffs. (Believe me, that ruffled a lot of feathers to get the number from 8 to 10.) However, the two wild card teams in each league play a single elimination game to quickly whittle it back down to 8. The division series is a best of 5, and goes by quickly. Then you get to the good stuff: A best of 7 league championship series and a best of 7 World Series. All of that happens in the span of ONE month (October) and then it's over.

 

Having 16 teams (more than 50% of the league) in the playoffs has always been an embarrassment in my opinion and I continue to feel that way. Having four best-of-7 rounds with days off between games stretches the playoffs from April into June (and sometimes July). It really is too much. The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April or May. 

 

In MLB, 2/3 of the teams play 80% of the time. The playoffs are one month long and compromise the other 1/3 of teams. In the NHL, 1/2 of the teams play 60% of the time.

 

The problem affecting the NHL today is overexposure. The fact that the NHL almost never shuts down means that there is no NHL "season" any more. It's a carefully crafted marketing strategy to put NHL hockey in all 12 months of the year, but it also flattens the interest in the game during that period. With no peaks, all you are left with is a 12 month long valley. It's a lot like watching the news. You can flip on the TV any day and watch the news, but by having news 365 days/yr, there is no urgency for me to tune in. A sitcom that runs from September to April generates interest. It builds to a crescendo. The downtime between seasons creates excitement for the next one. 

 

My two cents.  

[FD19372]

19 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'm a fan of both baseball and hockey. In MLB, 10 teams make the playoffs. (Believe me, that ruffled a lot of feathers to get the number from 8 to 10.) However, the two wild card teams in each league play a single elimination game to quickly whittle it back down to 8. The division series is a best of 5, and goes by quickly. Then you get to the good stuff: A best of 7 league championship series and a best of 7 World Series. All of that happens in the span of ONE month (October) and then it's over.

 

Having 16 teams (more than 50% of the league) in the playoffs has always been an embarrassment in my opinion and I continue to feel that way. Having four best-of-7 rounds with days off between games stretches the playoffs from April into June (and sometimes July). It really is too much. The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April or May. 

 

In MLB, 2/3 of the teams play 80% of the time. The playoffs are one month long and compromise the other 1/3 of teams. In the NHL, 1/2 of the teams play 60% of the time.

 

The problem affecting the NHL today is overexposure. The fact that the NHL almost never shuts down means that there is no NHL "season" any more. It's a carefully crafted marketing strategy to put NHL hockey in all 12 months of the year, but it also flattens the interest in the game during that period. With no peaks, all you are left with is a 12 month long valley. It's a lot like watching the news. You can flip on the TV any day and watch the news, but by having news 365 days/yr, there is no urgency for me to tune in. A sitcom that runs from September to April generates interest. It builds to a crescendo. The downtime between seasons creates excitement for the next one. 

 

My two cents.  

Well said, WoW. It comes down to one thing, ratings. It's why it runs right along the same week as the NBA finals. I agree that having 16 teams is too many, maybe they should it down to 6 or even 4 in each conference. The season is, in fact, too long as you said.  NBC and the NHL won't like it if its cut back, though, because it will probably cut down on playoff $$$. It's all a network battle between NBC/NBCSN and ABC/ESPN. Before you know it, the NHL will have a summer league. I'm surprised a lesson wasn't learned last season when it was so late, and they weren't constantly fixing bad ice every five minutes down in Tampa Bay. 

[mojo1917]

money

 

the conference quarterfinals should be a 5 game series.  

the conference semi finals is a little more of a conundrum for me, there have been great 7 game series at this point so i'd be fine keeping it at 7 games.

I agree the season is too long and the playoffs stretch on for far too long, the ice in SJ has been ****, the ice in Pgh has been not much better, the game is played on ice...there's no ice in mid June.  it's ridiculous.

 

but the owners are gettin' dem checks so enjoy year round hockey.  

i feel you @WordsOfWisdom

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'm a fan of both baseball and hockey. In MLB, 10 teams make the playoffs. (Believe me, that ruffled a lot of feathers to get the number from 8 to 10.) However, the two wild card teams in each league play a single elimination game to quickly whittle it back down to 8. The division series is a best of 5, and goes by quickly. Then you get to the good stuff: A best of 7 league championship series and a best of 7 World Series. All of that happens in the span of ONE month (October) and then it's over.

 

Having 16 teams (more than 50% of the league) in the playoffs has always been an embarrassment in my opinion and I continue to feel that way. Having four best-of-7 rounds with days off between games stretches the playoffs from April into June (and sometimes July). It really is too much. The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April or May. 

 

In MLB, 2/3 of the teams play 80% of the time. The playoffs are one month long and compromise the other 1/3 of teams. In the NHL, 1/2 of the teams play 60% of the time.

 

The problem affecting the NHL today is overexposure. The fact that the NHL almost never shuts down means that there is no NHL "season" any more. It's a carefully crafted marketing strategy to put NHL hockey in all 12 months of the year, but it also flattens the interest in the game during that period. With no peaks, all you are left with is a 12 month long valley. It's a lot like watching the news. You can flip on the TV any day and watch the news, but by having news 365 days/yr, there is no urgency for me to tune in. A sitcom that runs from September to April generates interest. It builds to a crescendo. The downtime between seasons creates excitement for the next one. 

 

My two cents.  

 

In baseball, they play A HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO GAMES to figure out who makes the playoffs. 162 games of watching a bunch of guys stand around watching two people play catch. I'm spellbound.

 

Four rounds of best of sevens is what makes hockey the toughest championship to win. Cut out the three day off bs. When your team is in this, it's friggin exhilarating...you've forgotten that.

[FD19372]

42 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

In baseball, they play A HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO GAMES to figure out who makes the playoffs. 162 games of watching a bunch of guys stand around watching two people play catch. I'm spellbound.

 

Four rounds of best of sevens is what makes hockey the toughest championship to win. Cut out the three day off bs. When your team is in this, it's friggin exhilarating...you've forgotten that.

So true...and don't forget the up to the 13 games it takes to decide a League Champion and that doesn't include then a best of 7 in the World Series. Talk about overkill. 

[SpikeDDS]

40 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

In baseball, they play A HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO GAMES to figure out who makes the playoffs. 162 games of watching a bunch of guys stand around watching two people play catch. I'm spellbound.

 

Four rounds of best of sevens is what makes hockey the toughest championship to win. Cut out the three day off bs. When your team is in this, it's friggin exhilarating...you've forgotten that.

I know what you're saying, but I think @WordsOfWisdom's point still stands. I just want my team to win it all. I'm not THAT demanding that they do it in 16 wins. I'd take 11 or 12. That would be plenty of playoff hockey for me. If your team won the Cup in 12 games, would you REALLY be saying to yourself, "You know that was great, but it would have been even BETTER if they had won 4 more games."? I don't think so.

 

And if the playoffs were shortened a little so that they end in May, it might make the competition with the NBA playoffs a bit better, our SCFs vs. their 2nd or 3rd round rather than finals vs. finals. I would think that might make NBC a bit more optimistic about ratings, because the ratings per game would likely be higher. I mean, here I am A HOCKEY FAN, and my team was eliminated seemingly eons ago, and I have to admit, even I have had enough. What's a non-hockey fan gonna think/feel? How are you going to increase the ratings and make this game more competitive if you exhaust even good fans?

 

Even the NBA shortens their first round. Ever wonder why? Wouldn't you think an extra couple of games would bring more revenue? They don't do it because they understand that sometimes less is more.

 

But the point about owners is very likely still valid. It will be VERY difficult to convince them of the above statement.

[Puck_Pun]

Honestly the length of the playoffs is excessive. Too many teams enter and too many games are played. But, as already mentioned it's hard to imagine the number of games being shaved back due to the money issue. At least when more teams are added let's hope that more teams are not added to the playoffs.

[flyercanuck]

34 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

I know what you're saying, but I think @WordsOfWisdom's point still stands. I just want my team to win it all. I'm not THAT demanding that they do it in 16 wins. I'd take 11 or 12. That would be plenty of playoff hockey for me. If your team won the Cup in 12 games, would you REALLY be saying to yourself, "You know that was great, but it would have been even BETTER if they had won 4 more games."? I don't think so.

 

No it wouldn't matter to me if they won it in 12. Heck, I've seen them win 12 playoff games plenty of times. It's the 16 they're having difficulty with. Which again goes to show how difficult it is to win a cup.

 

34 minutes ago, SpikeDDS said:

 

And if the playoffs were shortened a little so that they end in May, it might make the competition with the NBA playoffs a bit better, our SCFs vs. their 2nd or 3rd round rather than finals vs. finals. I would think that might make NBC a bit more optimistic about ratings, because the ratings per game would likely be higher. I mean, here I am A HOCKEY FAN, and my team was eliminated seemingly eons ago, and I have to admit, even I have had enough. What's a non-hockey fan gonna think/feel? How are you going to increase the ratings and make this game more competitive if you exhaust even good fans?

 

Even the NBA shortens their first round. Ever wonder why? Wouldn't you think an extra couple of games would bring more revenue? They don't do it because they understand that sometimes less is more.

 

But the point about owners is very likely still valid. It will be VERY difficult to convince them of the above statement.

 

I really don't give a rats arse about competing with the NBA or any other sport. The NHL has been around as long as any of them, and is doing just fine. If some guys prefer to watch cars go round in circles, or throw balls at pins in an alley, good for them. Why do people feel the need to convert others? You'll never get me to like bowling, or baseball, or Nascar. And they do just fine without me. I hated when NHL had best of 5. Best of 3 was even worse. 4 rounds of best of 7 is a hell of a thing to win. If people think it's too long, don't watch. it's really that simple.

[WordsOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Well said, WoW. It comes down to one thing, ratings. It's why it runs right along the same week as the NBA finals. I agree that having 16 teams is too many, maybe they should it down to 6 or even 4 in each conference. The season is, in fact, too long as you said.  NBC and the NHL won't like it if its cut back, though, because it will probably cut down on playoff $$$. It's all a network battle between NBC/NBCSN and ABC/ESPN. Before you know it, the NHL will have a summer league. I'm surprised a lesson wasn't learned last season when it was so late, and they weren't constantly fixing bad ice every five minutes down in Tampa Bay. 

 

Exactly. Here's a tip for the NHL:

 

The average North American spends their evening outside on their patio or at their cottage during this time of year. It's the worst possible time of year for television. The NHL puts their premium event on during the lowest watched point in the year for television. It's mind blowing. 

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

In baseball, they play A HUNDRED AND SIXTY TWO GAMES to figure out who makes the playoffs. 162 games of watching a bunch of guys stand around watching two people play catch. I'm spellbound.

 

Four rounds of best of sevens is what makes hockey the toughest championship to win. Cut out the three day off bs. When your team is in this, it's friggin exhilarating...you've forgotten that.

 

I knew someone would mention this. A few points:

 

• The baseball season runs from April through September: 6 months.
• The hockey season runs from October through March: 6 months.
• Yes, they play 162 games. It's long, but not from a time standpoint.
• The regular season in baseball means more. In hockey, over 50% get in the playoffs. The 82 game regular season is just a time waster for many teams before the playoffs begin. Despite playing fewer games, the NHL regular season games actually mean less overall per game than in MLB.
• Since hockey games can't be played every day, perhaps they shouldn't have a best-of-7 series. A best of 7 in MLB is over in one week because the teams play almost every day. A best of 7 in the NHL is two weeks long because of the breaks between games. 

The other key here is that 20 of 30 teams in MLB play 6 months out of a possible 7 months. In the NHL, 14 of 30 teams play 6 months out of a possible 9 months. Half the league in the NHL only plays 2/3 of the total NHL "season". If you're a fan of the Leafs for example, you stopped watching hockey three months ago already! The NHL season is basically 3 chunks: October to December, January to March, April to June. How can one maintain fan interest in non-playoff markets when the eliminated teams have their season end a whopping three months before some of the others?    

 

My thoughts.

 

[flyercanuck]

24 minutes ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

I knew someone would mention this. A few points:

 

• The baseball season runs from April through September: 6 months.
• The hockey season runs from October through March: 6 months.
• Yes, they play 162 games. It's long, but not from a time standpoint.
• The regular season in baseball means more. In hockey, over 50% get in the playoffs. The 82 game regular season is just a time waster for many teams before the playoffs begin. Despite playing fewer games, the NHL regular season games actually mean less overall per game than in MLB.
• Since hockey games can't be played every day, perhaps they shouldn't have a best-of-7 series. A best of 7 in MLB is over in one week because the teams play almost every day. A best of 7 in the NHL is two weeks long because of the breaks between games. 

The other key here is that 20 of 30 teams in MLB play 6 months out of a possible 7 months. In the NHL, 14 of 30 teams play 6 months out of a possible 9 months. Half the league in the NHL only plays 2/3 of the total NHL "season". If you're a fan of the Leafs for example, you stopped watching hockey three months ago already! The NHL season is basically 3 chunks: October to December, January to March, April to June. How can one maintain fan interest in non-playoff markets when the eliminated teams have their season end a whopping three months before some of the others?    

 

My thoughts.

 

 

One trip to the finals and i'd bet as a Leaf fan you'd change your opinion. As I mentioned, you've forgotten the thrill of a long playoff run. Leaf fans STILL reminisce about that conference final appearance. 

[SpikeDDS]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

No it wouldn't matter to me if they won it in 12. Heck, I've seen them win 12 playoff games plenty of times. It's the 16 they're having difficulty with. Which again goes to show how difficult it is to win a cup.

 

 

I really don't give a rats arse about competing with the NBA or any other sport. The NHL has been around as long as any of them, and is doing just fine. If some guys prefer to watch cars go round in circles, or throw balls at pins in an alley, good for them. Why do people feel the need to convert others? You'll never get me to like bowling, or baseball, or Nascar. And they do just fine without me. I hated when NHL had best of 5. Best of 3 was even worse. 4 rounds of best of 7 is a hell of a thing to win. If people think it's too long, don't watch. it's really that simple.

 

I want them to compete so that I don't have to wait a half a week between hockey games. That's why. 

[SpikeDDS]

23 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

One trip to the finals and i'd bet as a Leaf fan you'd change your opinion. As I mentioned, you've forgotten the thrill of a long playoff run. Leaf fans STILL reminisce about that conference final appearance. 

 

But they would still reminisce the same if there were only 12 wins required and they got 1 game away from being in the SCFs and had it taken away by a bad high sticking non-call. You think they are talking about it more because they won 11 games instead of if they had won 7 or 8 to that point?

[peter puck]

How about starting the season in September?

[WordsOfWisdom]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

One trip to the finals and i'd bet as a Leaf fan you'd change your opinion. As I mentioned, you've forgotten the thrill of a long playoff run. Leaf fans STILL reminisce about that conference final appearance. 

 

Perhaps. 

 

Although the last time the Leafs won, I'm pretty sure the Cup was awarded in April and the playoffs consisted of two rounds.

 

[sarsippius]

7 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'm a fan of both baseball and hockey. In MLB, 10 teams make the playoffs. (Believe me, that ruffled a lot of feathers to get the number from 8 to 10.)

 

Dude, it ruffled my feathers when it went from 4 to 8!  Although not really the point of your thread, carry on.....

[JR Ewing]

5 hours ago, sarsippius said:

 

Dude, it ruffled my feathers when it went from 4 to 8!  Although not really the point of your thread, carry on.....

 

Hell, feathers were ruffled when it went from just the two pennant winners playing in the World Series.

 

 

[WordsOfWisdom]

5 hours ago, sarsippius said:

 

Dude, it ruffled my feathers when it went from 4 to 8!  Although not really the point of your thread, carry on.....

 

There was talk in the Toronto market of MLB letting more teams in (because the Jays sucked for so long) and my immediate reaction was: "Umm no. If the Jays can't earn a playoff spot properly, I don't want baseball letting more teams in just to allow mediocre teams like the Jays into October baseball."

 

[ScottM]

10 hours ago, WordsOfWisdom said:

 

Exactly. Here's a tip for the NHL:

 

The average North American spends their evening outside on their patio or at their cottage during this time of year. It's the worst possible time of year for television. The NHL puts their premium event on during the lowest watched point in the year for television. It's mind blowing. 

 

Maybe Canadians go out on the patio, but Americans are too lazy to walk outside. Lol

[WordsOfWisdom]

10 hours ago, ScottM said:

 

Maybe Canadians go out on the patio, but Americans are too lazy to walk outside. Lol

 

LOL.  

[B21]

On 6/12/2016 at 10:26 AM, WordsOfWisdom said:

I'm a fan of both baseball and hockey. In MLB, 10 teams make the playoffs. (Believe me, that ruffled a lot of feathers to get the number from 8 to 10.) However, the two wild card teams in each league play a single elimination game to quickly whittle it back down to 8. The division series is a best of 5, and goes by quickly. Then you get to the good stuff: A best of 7 league championship series and a best of 7 World Series. All of that happens in the span of ONE month (October) and then it's over.

 

Having 16 teams (more than 50% of the league) in the playoffs has always been an embarrassment in my opinion and I continue to feel that way. Having four best-of-7 rounds with days off between games stretches the playoffs from April into June (and sometimes July). It really is too much. The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April or May. 

 

In MLB, 2/3 of the teams play 80% of the time. The playoffs are one month long and compromise the other 1/3 of teams. In the NHL, 1/2 of the teams play 60% of the time.

 

The problem affecting the NHL today is overexposure. The fact that the NHL almost never shuts down means that there is no NHL "season" any more. It's a carefully crafted marketing strategy to put NHL hockey in all 12 months of the year, but it also flattens the interest in the game during that period. With no peaks, all you are left with is a 12 month long valley. It's a lot like watching the news. You can flip on the TV any day and watch the news, but by having news 365 days/yr, there is no urgency for me to tune in. A sitcom that runs from September to April generates interest. It builds to a crescendo. The downtime between seasons creates excitement for the next one. 

 

My two cents.  

 

Noble idea.  Not happening. Ever.  Quick - name the last time any professional league reduced A.) the number of teams that qualify for the post-season and/or 2.) the number of post-season games played and/or III.) the number of regular season games played.  I can't.

 

More teams in the playoffs means more games. More games means more revenue.  More revenue is fairly self explanatory. Don't pin that on just the owners, though. The number of revenue made by the owners directly correlates to the amount of money available to the players in the form of the cap.  I know I know - the players share is split something like 700 ways. Still.  If they players don't like it they can buy a hockey team.  I've never heard much grumbling from players (aside from the NFL) that the season is "too long".  As long as players are PAID for additional games I really don't think they care. I don't get all the weeping and gnashing of teeth about the occasional 2 days off between games either.  Sure - sometimes it is for ratings.  Many times it is due to scheduling conflicts.  Travel, too.  Don't like it? Tell arenas to stop booking Ice Capades in April.  If I am the NHL I wan't as many big games on weekends and/or in prime time as possible. That means more TV viewers which means more revenue and....you get the idea.

 

I'll argue that having 16 teams in the playoffs is better for fan interest.  Knock that down by 4-6 teams and you have a big number of fans tuning out earlier because they realize their team has no shot at the playoffs 50 games into the season. 

 

The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April.  The World Series used to end in early October. The Super Bowl used to be played in mid-January. The NBA Finals used to be done by mid to late May.  It happens.

 

 

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, B21 said:

 

Noble idea.  Not happening. Ever.  Quick - name the last time any professional league reduced A.) the number of teams that qualify for the post-season and/or 2.) the number of post-season games played and/or III.) the number of regular season games played.  I can't.

 

More teams in the playoffs means more games. More games means more revenue.  More revenue is fairly self explanatory. Don't pin that on just the owners, though. The number of revenue made by the owners directly correlates to the amount of money available to the players in the form of the cap.  I know I know - the players share is split something like 700 ways. Still.  If they players don't like it they can buy a hockey team.  I've never heard much grumbling from players (aside from the NFL) that the season is "too long".  As long as players are PAID for additional games I really don't think they care. I don't get all the weeping and gnashing of teeth about the occasional 2 days off between games either.  Sure - sometimes it is for ratings.  Many times it is due to scheduling conflicts.  Travel, too.  Don't like it? Tell arenas to stop booking Ice Capades in April.  If I am the NHL I wan't as many big games on weekends and/or in prime time as possible. That means more TV viewers which means more revenue and....you get the idea.

 

I'll argue that having 16 teams in the playoffs is better for fan interest.  Knock that down by 4-6 teams and you have a big number of fans tuning out earlier because they realize their team has no shot at the playoffs 50 games into the season. 

 

The Stanley Cup used to be awarded in April.  The World Series used to end in early October. The Super Bowl used to be played in mid-January. The NBA Finals used to be done by mid to late May.  It happens.

 

 

 

 

Well said sir.

 

How many fans of ANY team would be complaining the season is too long if their team won yesterday?

 

My guess is....none!