Is the 2017 draft weak?

[jammer2]

I'm starting to see indications that the 2017 NHL Draft will be a weak one as far as elite talent goes. Spits player Gabriel Vilardi is ranked from 2-6 depending on the mock you see. Thing is, he does a lot of things well, but nothing really great. Does not have elite speed or play making ability, shot is just ok...defense, just ok. I see a possible solid second line center, not an elite franchise center.He did just come back from an injury to be fair, but I just don't see a top 5 talent here.

 

 A few more indications....I'm not thrilled with Nolan Patrick, the current ranked top player, again, a lot of good things, but no jaw dropping talent. The player ranked #18 (some mocks have Philly selecting him in that spot) is Kingston's Robertson, just saw him play tonight. Kingston has a very, very poor offensive club, 2nd worse in the OHL for goals scored, but this kid has no elite speed and has a real awkward hunched over style that hurts his agility.

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, jammer2 said:

I'm starting to see indications that the 2017 NHL Draft will be a weak one as far as elite talent goes. Spits player Gabriel Vilardi is ranked from 2-6 depending on the mock you see. Thing is, he does a lot of things well, but nothing really great. Does not have elite speed or play making ability, shot is just ok...defense, just ok. I see a possible solid second line center, not an elite franchise center.He did just come back from an injury to be fair, but I just don't see a top 5 talent here.

 

 A few more indications....I'm not thrilled with Nolan Patrick, the current ranked top player, again, a lot of good things, but no jaw dropping talent. The player ranked #18 (some mocks have Philly selecting him in that spot) is Kingston's Robertson, just saw him play tonight. Kingston has a very, very poor offensive club, 2nd worse in the OHL for goals scored, but this kid has no elite speed and has a real awkward hunched over style that hurts his agility.

 

That's the word going around...kind of a lame year. Doesn't mean there won't be some talent there....but not the year you want to win the lottery. Patrick is a good player but more of a high end #2 centre than a true #1.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

That's the word going around...kind of a lame year. Doesn't mean there won't be some talent there....but not the year you want to win the lottery. Patrick is a good player but more of a high end #2 centre than a true #1.

 

So wih that maybe being true and the Flyers cupboard stocked much better than year's past i could see Hexy trading out for picks later. Sure it's to early to tell now but if a 3rd can get you a 2nd in next year's draft for example then i could see it happening. Like i said just hypothetical.

[AJgoal]

I haven't gotten to much into it, Appleyard thinks there's a lot of decent centers in the draft. Nothing top end, but lots of solid 2/3 guys.

[flyercanuck]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

I haven't gotten to much into it, Appleyard thinks there's a lot of decent centers in the draft. Nothing top end, but lots of solid 2/3 guys.

 

And there'll always be top notch bluechippers who come out of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Jamie Benn came out of round 5 in the 07 draft.

[AJgoal]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

And there'll always be top notch bluechippers who come out of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Jamie Benn came out of round 5 in the 07 draft.

 

Right. There's nobody looking like a sure-fire all-star, but that doesn't mean you can't find a late bloomer.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

These are the kinds of drafts that will show which teams really do have front office people and scouts who do their homework.

 

With all the high end talent already in the NHL making a gazillion dollars and a bunch more high end prospects looking to do the same, perhaps a draft like this is good for NHL GM's all over where they can still get decent talent, but since there are no 'generational' talents available or any other talents GM's would be willing to sacrifice family members for, they won't have to shell out big time entry level deals with the expectations of giving those same young players a bunch more money right after that before they have had a chance to prove anything.

 

If word is "lots of #2's" in this draft, think of the various ways creative GM's can stock their minor league systems or maybe get some real workmanlike type players to compliment whatever other #1 type talent they already have.

 

No McDavids, Matthews, Eichels, MacKinnons in this draft? No problem.

A good front office and their scouting crews will surely find themselves some Troy Brouwer, Wayne Simmonds, Matt Cullen, or Mikko Koivu types in there (I.E. excellent complimentary pieces who fill big roles and sometimes play like #1's for stretches) and have those guys play big roles in the success of the franchise that drafts and develops them.

[yave1964]

Not every draft produces a 'generational talent' but it will be a deep class of good solid players from what I have been reading.

As @TropicalFruitGirl26 mentioned it may have less no brainers but the smart GM will find the guy who plays 1000 games and makes a few all star teams.

[jammer2]

On 10/21/2016 at 6:32 AM, flyercanuck said:

 

That's the word going around...kind of a lame year. Doesn't mean there won't be some talent there....but not the year you want to win the lottery. Patrick is a good player but more of a high end #2 centre than a true #1.

 

 Agree totally. Neither Valardi or Patrick are gonna lift you out of your seat, no outlandish dangling or elite speed, just steady 2 way players with decent offensive upside. I don't see a true #1 either. Never really heard about the coming 17 draft, just drew the conclusions from last years WHL playoffs and this years Spits games. Got to see Patrick while checking out Provs.

[jammer2]

15 hours ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

These are the kinds of drafts that will show which teams really do have front office people and scouts who do their homework.

 

 Then, you can count on the Wings, Leafs, Sabres and Flyers to knock it out of the park, they have all been drafting great of late, or it at least really looks strong. I saw this kid from Kingston, a Leaf pick and wow, this Derocher youngster....Kingstons captain, he is gonna be a real nice defensemen. He makes the Leafs for sure.

[ScottM]

On 10/22/2016 at 7:50 AM, jammer2 said:

Then, you can count on the Wings, Leafs, Sabres and Flyers to knock it out of the park

 

You can also expect that from the Bruins. The difference is, they do it in foul ball form.

[jammer2]

16 hours ago, ScottM said:

 

You can also expect that from the Bruins. The difference is, they do it in foul ball form.

 

I prefer the term "Golden Sombero" but it's all good..LOL!

[JR Ewing]

Short of the rarity of a draft containing a generational player, I offer the same answer I've been giving for many years: we'll know in about 5 years time.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

These drafts that are called 'weak' usually turn out to be great drafts. You usually find impact wingers and defensemen in these types of drafts. I don't buy the notion that because there isn't a 'generational' talent that it's a weak draft. If there are franchise players available (and this draft actually has a good number of potential franchise players), that's a good draft.

[jammer2]

On 10/25/2016 at 0:56 PM, ScottM said:

 

You can also expect that from the Bruins. The difference is, they do it in foul ball form.

 

 The Bruins took a lot of heat for the 2015 draft picks (and deservedly if any could have been plucked later) , namely picks 14, 15 and 16. I can't speak for all of them, but I got a chance to see Shnyshyn (pick #16) when the Sault.Ste Marie Greyhounds came to town, I came away really impressed. Who knows, they might have got the kid in the 2nd ect, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna be a solid NHL'er who should put up some respectable point totals.

[jammer2]

On 11/16/2016 at 8:07 AM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

These drafts that are called 'weak' usually turn out to be great drafts. You usually find impact wingers and defensemen in these types of drafts. I don't buy the notion that because there isn't a 'generational' talent that it's a weak draft. If there are franchise players available (and this draft actually has a good number of potential franchise players), that's a good draft.

 

,

 I'm just trying to get a feel for the draft by cross comparing players I have seen compete. I will say, Valardi is growing by leaps and bounds. Just does everything so well....my big concern was he was not overly dynamic....well, that is changing. He has had a few "lift you out of the seat" moments of late. He backchecks like a demon and is a silky smooth skater. Starting to believe he really is a franchise center. Just judging from last years WHL playoffs, Valardi is every bit as good as Nolan Patrick, although I'd like to see Patrick again this year.

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

,

 I'm just trying to get a feel for the draft by cross comparing players I have seen compete. I will say, Valardi is growing by leaps and bounds. Just does everything so well....my big concern was he was not overly dynamic....well, that is changing. He has had a few "lift you out of the seat" moments of late. He backchecks like a demon and is a silky smooth skater. Starting to believe he really is a franchise center. Just judging from last years WHL playoffs, Valardi is every bit as good as Nolan Patrick, although I'd like to see Patrick again this year.

 

Patrick led the entire WHL in playoff scoring last season...while playing with a sports hernia. Vilardi currently sits 26th in OHL scoring. Both players have great hands...Patricks skating puts him in another league from Vilardi.

 

I think you may be slightly biased on this one jammer. 

 

Vilardi is almost a year younger though, which can make a big difference in their development.

 

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

14 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

,

 I'm just trying to get a feel for the draft by cross comparing players I have seen compete. I will say, Valardi is growing by leaps and bounds. Just does everything so well....my big concern was he was not overly dynamic....well, that is changing. He has had a few "lift you out of the seat" moments of late. He backchecks like a demon and is a silky smooth skater. Starting to believe he really is a franchise center. Just judging from last years WHL playoffs, Valardi is every bit as good as Nolan Patrick, although I'd like to see Patrick again this year.

 

I thought the big issue with Valardi is he's one of those guys who does a lot of things well, but nothing sticks out (not that that's a bad type of player to be - they usually become very productive players throughout the course of their career). Right now, the guys who really stand out for me are Nico Hischier from Halifax (it took him a little bit of time to adjust to the North American rinks, but has been blistering hot as of recent (I think they said something like 22 points in 14 games), Michael Rasmussen from Tri-City in the WHL (leads the WHL with 19 goals in 23 games) and Matthew Strome (26 points in 22 games, but the scouts call him the best of the Strome brothers). I haven't had a chance to watch much of the European talent and because I don't live in London anymore, I don't get to a lot of Knights games (although Robert Thomas seems to be pretty popular with scouts and I've seen him rated as a low first to third round pick). One other thing that I notice about this year's draft is that the kids are big. There are a lot of kids between 6'1 and 6'5 available for the first round. I know there's a few 6'0 and under, but the majority is 6'2 to 6'3. I don't think I've seen a draft with that many big kids available. There's going to be so many surprises from this draft, especially once the kids grow into their frames. There's going to be a lot of good players come out of this draft, for certain.

[jammer2]

7 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I thought the big issue with Valardi is he's one of those guys who does a lot of things well, but nothing sticks out (not that that's a bad type of player to be - they usually become very productive players throughout the course of their career).

 

 Exactly, and I was echoing the exact same sentiments. I dunno what it is, but Valardi seems to be morphing into this dynamic player right before me eyes. He is showing some serious moves of late, stuff he was not pulling off earlier in his career. A few games back, he stickhandled through the entire Owen Sound team and ripped it off the goalpost.....then, the next night he scores a minute into overtime on a well placed heavy snap shot that was from deep out, just past the blueline. The shot just overpowered the goalie, he barely moved. I don't think Valardi scores that goal last year, so he is quite the work in progress.

[jammer2]

13 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Patrick led the entire WHL in playoff scoring last season...while playing with a sports hernia. Vilardi currently sits 26th in OHL scoring. Both players have great hands...Patricks skating puts him in another league from Vilardi.

 

I think you may be slightly biased on this one jammer. 

 

Vilardi is almost a year younger though, which can make a big difference in their development.

 

 

 

 

 Well, to be fair, Valardi got hurt at the Under 17 try outs in the summer and started the year late, think he missed a few weeks. He does have 22 points in 15 games, so he is on pace to finish a lot higher in mid 20's in the O. Valardi does not have wicked speed, but he has a nice smooth stride that is deceptively fast, he does not get caught from behind to often.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I think the closer it gets to draft time, the more and more hyped these guys are going to be. I really do like these quiet kind of drafts because this is going to force teams to really rely on their scouts to see who really is the best available player or which player has the highest upside. And, if teams to believe this to be a weak draft, this would be the perfect time to move up and grab someone who you believe can be an impact player/blue chipper in your system. I think this might be the year we see a lot of movement, especially when you add in Las Vegas are probably going to be quite active.

[jammer2]

19 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

And, if teams to believe this to be a weak draft, this would be the perfect time to move up and grab someone who you believe can be an impact player/blue chipper in your system.

 

 I expect a boatload of trades also. I can see some teams getting aggressive and moving up, and probably a fair amount of teams deciding there is good value in later picks and hoarding some mid round picks to move backwards.. I have been wondering, can Vegas and Philly strike a deal where they both agree on which player they will take in the expansion draft and Philly pays a 5th or 6th rounder in exchange for Vegas not drafting anyone they want to retain....not sure if that would be legal or not.

 

 I know that Windsor's goalie Michael Dipietro is slated to go approx early to mid 2nd round. Kinda crazy that Michael is ranked that low, cause I believe he is a legit #1 goalie, He has real quick legs and glove and tracks the puck like a champ. Using Dipietro as a kind of measuring stick, that tells me that despite the lack of true superstars in the 17 draft,, there is going to be some excellent value picks well into the 3rd round. It should be a very nice year to have stockpiled a few 2nd or 3rd rounders.

 

 I hope the Wheat Kings represent the WHL in the Memorial Cup, would love to get a first hand look at Nolan Patrick and get a better read on him.

.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I expect a boatload of trades also. I can see some teams getting aggressive and moving up, and probably a fair amount of teams deciding there is good value in later picks and hoarding some mid round picks to move backwards.. I have been wondering, can Vegas and Philly strike a deal where they both agree on which player they will take in the expansion draft and Philly pays a 5th or 6th rounder in exchange for Vegas not drafting anyone they want to retain....not sure if that would be legal or not.

 

 I know that Windsor's goalie Michael Dipietro is slated to go approx early to mid 2nd round. Kinda crazy that Michael is ranked that low, cause I believe he is a legit #1 goalie, He has real quick legs and glove and tracks the puck like a champ. Using Dipietro as a kind of measuring stick, that tells me that despite the lack of true superstars in the 17 draft,, there is going to be some excellent value picks well into the 3rd round. It should be a very nice year to have stockpiled a few 2nd or 3rd rounders.

 

 I hope the Wheat Kings represent the WHL in the Memorial Cup, would love to get a first hand look at Nolan Patrick and get a better read on him.

.

 

 

In terms of the first paragraph, I'm sure there will be plenty of side deals like that. 

 

As for Michael Dipietro, I've read some publications that have him mid to late first and early to mid second. I think his one drawback is that he's only 6 feet in height. The rest of the top rated goalies for this draft are in the 6'3 to 6'5 range. That might be the one thing that's holding him back. Other than that, yeah, you're right about the rest of Dipietro's abilities. I'm hopeful that the Flyers can grab a 2nd round pick or two for this upcoming draft. Nothing wrong with getting a Dipietro or an Austin Keating or Sasha Chmelevski there as well (as much as I like the London Knights, my home is originally the Ottawa Valley, so I'll always have a soft spot for the Ottawa 67s).

[hf101]

 

With Nico Hischier performance in the World Juniors may have placed himself in a position to be the first overall.  The kid is a speedy smart player with Pavel Datsyuk hands with similar poise and patience around the net. Currently with the Halifax Mooseheads and is second in the Quebec league with 1.54 goals per game.

 

Bob Motzko - USA coach had this to say of him. “(Hischier) was the best player we’ve seen in this tournament,” Motzko said. “We tried all four lines against him and I thought he was playing every shift because every time he got out there, the ice was tilted. It was the first thing we said when we got into the lockerroom, ‘That’s the best player we’ve seen in the tournament.’ ”

 

Hischier is #18.

 

 

[hf101]

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