BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I think what's disappointing in this mess is that the veterans are given more leeway to make errors that the young players are. We watch Couturier fail to back check or Giroux float and there's no questioning from the coach about their mistakes. A guy like Konecny who busts his backside game in and game out is given a seat for perceived flaws in his game by the coach. You can't have two sets of standards for players. That's how you get a locker room revolt and that's how you end up with a veterans vs young players that Hitchcock had. Honestly, if there was consistency in Hakstol's benchings, I'd understand. But there isn't. And part of me thinks well, if that's the case, might as well fill the team with all young players who will follow what Hakstol says. I'm still all for blowing it up though. I don't think this mess is going to get any better. I'd like to see at least a year or two with top 5 draft picks to help the team. This franchise has had one in the past 15 years and they whiffed on Van Useless. Now that Hextall is running the show, I feel confident with his drafting ability and getting a guy like Michael Rasmussen this year would certainly help ease the pain of a stench-o-riffic year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 just a friendly reminder: the Flyers are 22-18-6 with 50 pts. They're sitting at 13th overall. They'll probably drop some during the break but they're far from angling for a top 3 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskaFlyerFan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, canoli said: just a friendly reminder: the Flyers are 22-8-6 with 50 pts. They're sitting at 13th overall. They'll probably drop some during the break but they're far from angling for a top 3 pick. And they're sitting in a playoff spot, the 2nd wildcard spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: And they're sitting in a playoff spot, the 2nd wildcard spot. Trade them all, their value will never be higher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 3 hours ago, canoli said: just a friendly reminder: the Flyers are 22-8-6 with 50 pts. They're sitting at 13th overall. They'll probably drop some during the break but they're far from angling for a top 3 pick. I wish. I think you mean 22-18-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 8 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes. Once you have accepted that you won't make it then you become that. I can not and will not accept them not giving their all while there is plenty of time to make the playoffs. Anything otherwise is cancerous and needs to be removed from this team ASAP. You can not build a team with guys who only want to play when it suits them. No way. Total bullshiit to accept that. The fans are paying their hard earned money to see these games because despite whatever is going on they believe they can make it....without that desire there is no point in coming to the rink. If the Kings had that mindset back in 2012 they would of never made the playoffs as a 8th seed and would have never won their 1st Cup. Can't and won't ever tolerate not give it your all...sorry. Actually, weren't the Kings expected to finish much higher in the standings that season...and underachieved? Then got their act together in the postseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 18 hours ago, hobie said: Olli Maatta was available but so were Jankowski, Gaunce, Samuelsson and Matteau? This is a 20/20 guessing game all teams can exposed as wanting. Maata was the most readily memorable person because he was taken immediately by the Pens the pick after the Flyers picked Laughton. The working theory at that time was there were zero prospects in the Flyers system and less than zero defensive prospects that were "NHL ready" who could help the pylons we were icing at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 20 hours ago, icehole said: It makes you wonder about scouts sometimes. What was the scouting report on. Couturier at the time..."scored 96 points in juniors"? (Not a shot at you...just sick of hearing it.) My scouting report would say "skates like the mud and soft as tissue". Sometimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Actually, weren't the Kings expected to finish much higher in the standings that season...and underachieved? Then got their act together in the postseason? Doesn't matter if hey accpeted they weren't going to make it and just went through the motions then they wouldn't have had a cup. Where someone picks you to be has nothing to do with YOUR effort you can change what someone says about you just like you can also be just like they said you would be. It's still up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said: 21 hours ago, icehole said: It makes you wonder about scouts sometimes. What was the scouting report on. Couturier at the time..."scored 96 points in juniors"? (Not a shot at you...just sick of hearing it.) My scouting report would say "skates like the mud and soft as tissue". Sometimes? I'm sure scouts noted his skating, but probably felt that it was something that could be worked on/overcome, which is a pretty common perspective of scouts: they tend to love the things that you can't teach: size, hockey sense etc FWIW this is what Kyle Woodlief said about Coots 3 weeks prior to the 2011 draft: Sean Couturier should be a perfect fit as a second-line center at the NHL level. He has tremendous size, good puck-handling skills and creativity, and is easily the best of the top forwards at playing away from the puck and in his own defensive end. His hockey sense is outstanding in all three zones, and he's a strong competitor who hates to lose. It's pretty representative I imagine. And much of it holds. I personally have not seen great puck handling skills or creativity on his part, but from the time he was drafted he has pretty much been used as a 3rd line checking center, so that's an important caveat. Also, that part (how he has been used) is not his fault. Anyway, I don't wish to re-hash the old debate. I'm moved from my previous position of slavish defense of Coots to one of criticism of him for the things that he directly controls, like his skating, like his shot, like his faceoffs. All those things he can get better with through hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Doesn't matter if hey accpeted they weren't going to make it and just went through the motions then they wouldn't have had a cup. Where someone picks you to be has nothing to do with YOUR effort you can change what someone says about you just like you can also be just like they said you would be. It's still up to you. Sure...and at this point of the season there was probably a lot of Kings fans calling them a bunch of heartless bastards cause they weren't showing up. Not to mention the Flyers might not look so terrible if they had Doughty/Johnson/Voynov/Martinez/Mitchell/Greene/Scuderi on our blueline instead of being lead by a 19 year old rookie and a bunch of veterans we all hope we get rid of by next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: Sure...and at this point of the season there was probably a lot of Kings fans calling them a bunch of heartless bastards cause they weren't showing up. Not to mention the Flyers might not look so terrible if they had Doughty/Johnson/Voynov/Martinez/Mitchell/Greene/Scuderi on our blueline instead of being lead by a 19 year old rookie and a bunch of veterans we all hope we get rid of by next season. So you're ok with the Flyers going through the motions not giving it a 100% because they are losing right now even though they are in the last wild card spot?? You're ok with them packing it in for the rest of the season?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 21 hours ago, icehole said: It makes you wonder about scouts sometimes. What was the scouting report on. Couturier at the time..."scored 96 points in juniors"? (Not a shot at you...just sick of hearing it.) My scouting report would say "skates like the mud and soft as tissue". I posted three links to scouting sites with reports on Couturier. So check out page 2 of this thread, where you can find links from actual scouts and scouting sites and see what these scouts said about Sean Couturier at the time he was drafted. I am all for dissent, conflicting opinions and levity. I grow weary though when I provide information, that's not read, or have the point i'm making repeatedly ignored, in favor or witless snark. The point that was missed; nearly every scout had Couturier's ceiling much higher than the level he's playing at currently, so dumping on the Flyers scouting for that "miss" is very different than dumping on them for the Tyrelle Gholbourne "miss" where the Flyers took that player at least 2 rounds earlier than every other team had him rated. see ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Tyrelle Gholbourne "miss" where the Flyers took that player at least 2 rounds earlier than every other team had him rated. Yeah what a miss he was....Duclair would have been a nice LW for the club huh? 20 goals 24 assist last year for the Yotes...ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I posted three links to scouting sites with reports on Couturier. So check out page 2 of this thread, where you can find links from actual scouts and scouting sites and see what these scouts said about Sean Couturier at the time he was drafted. I am all for dissent, conflicting opinions and levity. I grow weary though when I provide information, that's not read, or have the point i'm making repeatedly ignored, in favor or witless snark. The point that was missed; nearly every scout had Couturier's ceiling much higher than the level he's playing at currently, so dumping on the Flyers scouting for that "miss" is very different than dumping on them for the Tyrelle Gholbourne "miss" where the Flyers took that player at least 2 rounds earlier than every other team had him rated. see ? Are you referring to me as being snarky? I wasn't trying to be, or if I was it wasn't at anything you wrote. It wasn't a shot at the flyers scouts but a shot at scouts in general. I think I saw what you posted about a bunch of scouts that had couturier high. I've heard that for a few years now. That's what I'm getting at...what were they all looking at? Great size, competitive, great hands, and so on... The legion of doom averaged 236 lbs so I don't consider 190 or whatever he is to be great size. I don't know if I would trust a bigger guy with problems skating in this league anyway. Great hands? The entire team including him has to be the worst finishers in the league. Highly competitive?!?! That's just laughable. OK, so he hates to lose...doesn't everyone? That's why I question all of the scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I posted three links to scouting sites with reports on Couturier. So check out page 2 of this thread, where you can find links from actual scouts and scouting sites and see what these scouts said about Sean Couturier at the time he was drafted. I am all for dissent, conflicting opinions and levity. I grow weary though when I provide information, that's not read, or have the point i'm making repeatedly ignored, in favor or witless snark. The point that was missed; nearly every scout had Couturier's ceiling much higher than the level he's playing at currently, so dumping on the Flyers scouting for that "miss" is very different than dumping on them for the Tyrelle Gholbourne "miss" where the Flyers took that player at least 2 rounds earlier than every other team had him rated. see ? We are ignoring it because, as icehole put it, we’re sick of hearing about it. We don’t care what he did six, seven, or eight years ago in juniors. We don’t care how many people said it either. It’s past the point of having any relevancy. And bear in mind, I just said that I think he has a place on this team, but that’s what we need to be talking about, not his legendary juniors career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 What has Simmer gone and done???? ENGAGED?? Dear Lord... ..well at least he has good taste... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 14 hours ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said: And they're sitting in a playoff spot, the 2nd wildcard spot. very true but that is b/c we have games in hand on teams. Once they are playing again I would shocked if they were still in the playoff spot. I am not for blowing it up... What I want to see is how Hextall handles the roster when he is actually able to make defining moves to improve the team. Right now Weise is not looking to good... Gordon is not looking too good... still think Jake is grossly overpaid, etc... We will see where is all falls but I think "blowing it up" would just set this team back multiple years. It is no easy task for Hextall... the pipeline looks great but that is a wildcard as well. Right now my concern is the 5 vs 5 play and the defense. You can't win games solely based on the power play. And right now that is all this team is good for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, fanaticV3.0 said: We are ignoring it because, as icehole put it, we’re sick of hearing about it. We don’t care what he did six, seven, or eight years ago in juniors. We don’t care how many people said it either. It’s past the point of having any relevancy. And bear in mind, I just said that I think he has a place on this team, but that’s what we need to be talking about, not his legendary juniors career. It is absolutely relevant to the point mojo was making, which is that decrying the Flyers' scouting department for picking Couturier is misguided because everybody had him rated like that. His post was a direct response to caluso, who called out Pryor for his ability to judge talent. Obviously Couturier has not panned out. But that doesn't mean that the Flyers were wrong for picking him when they did. You (and icehole) reacted to mojo's response to another poster without taking into account what that other poster actually said and what mojo is actually saying in response. 23 hours ago, mojo1917 said: In the case of Couturier the Flyers staff was "with the herd" thinking that Sean Couturier would be a top 6 pro- That's the point mojo is saying is being ignored. Because you are still ignoring it. He is not in any way referencing Couturier's junior career to justify what he is now or what he might be now, but rather what he was seen to be then when the Flyers' scouting department made a perfectly reasonable evaluation of the player. Mojo also agrees with you - repeatedly - on the thread. 23 hours ago, mojo1917 said: In the case of Couturier the Flyers staff was "with the herd" thinking that Sean Couturier would be a top 6 pro- you are right, we're seeing this is not the case. You are arguing a completely different point than the one mojo was making - and I can certainly see why mojo would be frustrated with that. And why you - doggedly responding to a point that wasn't even made - would be tired of hearing about it. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: What has Simmer gone and done???? ENGAGED?? Dear Lord... ..well at least he has good taste... good taste indeed... she is hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, radoran said: It is absolutely relevant to the point mojo was making, which is that decrying the Flyers' scouting department for picking Couturier is misguided because everybody had him rated like that. His post was a direct response to caluso, who called out Pryor for his ability to judge talent. Obviously Couturier has not panned out. But that doesn't mean that the Flyers were wrong for picking him when they did. You (and icehole) reacted to mojo's response to another poster without taking into account what that other poster actually said and what mojo is actually saying in response. That's the point mojo is saying is being ignored. Because you are still ignoring it. He is not in any way referencing Couturier's junior career to justify what he is now or what he might be now, but rather what he was seen to be then when the Flyers' scouting department made a perfectly reasonable evaluation of the player. Mojo also agrees with you - repeatedly - on the thread. You are arguing a completely different point than the one mojo was making - and I can certainly see why mojo would be frustrated with that. And why you - doggedly responding to a point that wasn't even made - would be tired of hearing about it. Carry on. Dont even get into the Couts discussion rad.... not worth it. There are 3 Couts-haters on this board and it will never end until he is traded and getting Selke nods for another team. Is he a 2C in the NHL - not on a championship team. Is he a damn good 3C in the NHL that can slide up if needed - absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Huge task on their hands turning this thing around but it can be done. 2 mores games for Mcdud then get him the f**k out of here...that would be one problem solved...then keep trimming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, murraycraven said: Dont even get into the Couts discussion rad.... not worth it. There are 3 Couts-haters on this board and it will never end until he is traded and getting Selke nods for another team. Is he a 2C in the NHL - no. Is he a damn good 3C in the NHL that can slide up if needed - absolutely. I'm not in "the Couturier discussion" - I'm saying mojo's discussion was "is the Flyers' scouting staff any good?" As for Couturier specifically, fanatic agrees that he's "got a place on the team." As do I, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Dont even get into the Couts discussion rad.... not worth it. There are 3 Couts-haters on this board and it will never end until he is traded and getting Selke nods for another team. Is he a 2C in the NHL - not on a championship team. Is he a damn good 3C in the NHL that can slide up if needed - absolutely. My biggest issue regardless of what line Coots plays on is his effort or lack thereof to me from what i saw in the Boston game he should be bench plain and simple.... ...if you are going to send a message then everyone should be held accountable...and he sucked donkey balls in that game with his poor play and effort. SEND HIM A MESSAGE...IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED PERIOD! And i agree he is what he is...a 3rd line center! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Just now, radoran said: I'm not in "the Couturier discussion" - I'm saying mojo's discussion was "is the Flyers' scouting staff any good?" As for Couturier specifically, fanatic agrees that he's "got a place on the team." As do I, for that matter. gotcha.... I must have misread what you were saying. Well, we are down 2 Couts haters then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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