flyerrod Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 3/31/2017 at 0:14 PM, Cheesesteak said: #21 nice....maybe I'll be able to use my Van Riemsdyk jersey You bought a JVR jersey?!?! Yard sale or GoodWill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 My dad got me a #17 Carter Jersey awhile ago, not knowing I was never a fan of his. I turned it into a Simmonds jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 I thought Laughton was wearing #21? I guess it don't matter if you're not up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samifan Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 Take his number and his job!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 4 hours ago, flyerrod said: You bought a JVR jersey?!?! Yard sale or GoodWill? One of those cheap knockoffs so, no big deal...I had hope for the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesesteak Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: I thought Laughton was wearing #21? I guess it don't matter if you're not up? Oh yeah, TOTALLY forgot about him...guess he DID become the next Mike Richards, NOT on an NHL team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Cheesesteak said: One of those cheap knockoffs so, no big deal...I had hope for the kid. I think most of us did. JVR just proved otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, flyerrod said: I think most of us did. JVR just proved otherwise. He'd be second on the Flyers in goals and points. True story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 6 hours ago, radoran said: He'd be second on the Flyers in goals and points. True story. I'd still hate his floater game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: I'd still hate his floater game. So, the Flyers have traded away two LWs that have scored a combined 160 goals in six full seasons (not counting/pro-rating shortened seasons or partials and noting that they've scored more than 25 goals more times over that stretch than the top two paid Flyers have, combined, in their careers), are still looking for the answer at top line LW and both guys they've traded away are in the playoffs while the Flyers are tied with Carolina as second-worst team in the division, but "at least we got rid of the floater"? I suppose someone, somewhere might count that as "progress." On the plus side, they did manage to turn JVR into Jordan Weal, who finally got a shot because Nick Cousins got injured and currently has as many goals and points in 21 games as Raffl has in 52. That would be "8" and "11" for those following along at home. Not to mention more goals than Cousins put up (6) in 59... And the big news is that they've just signed a 24-year-old undrafted free agent with a potential upside of third line center. And they get to burn the year of his ELC - maybe - on three games. #winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, radoran said: So, the Flyers have traded away two LWs that have scored a combined 160 goals in six full seasons (not counting/pro-rating shortened seasons or partials and noting that they've scored more than 25 goals more times over that stretch than the top two paid Flyers have, combined, in their careers), are still looking for the answer at top line LW and both guys they've traded away are in the playoffs while the Flyers are tied with Carolina as second-worst team in the division, but "at least we got rid of the floater"? I suppose someone, somewhere might count that as "progress." On the plus side, they did manage to turn JVR into Jordan Weal, who finally got a shot because Nick Cousins got injured and currently has as many goals and points in 21 games as Raffl has in 52. That would be "8" and "11" for those following along at home. Not to mention more goals than Cousins put up (6) in 59... And the big news is that they've just signed a 24-year-old undrafted free agent with a potential upside of third line center. And they get to burn the year of his ELC - maybe - on three games. #winning I've never said the JVR trade was a good deal. I've never said we couldn't use his goals. But I've always said I hate his floater game. And he hasn't changed it one bit in his entire career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: I've never said the JVR trade was a good deal. I've never said we couldn't use his goals. But I've always said I hate his floater game. And he hasn't changed it one bit in his entire career. I don't like his -33 year a couple years back, either. But, floater or no, he's a hole that they still haven't filled. In fact, they've only dug it deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, radoran said: I don't like his -33 year a couple years back, either. But, floater or no, he's a hole that they still haven't filled. In fact, they've only dug it deeper. He sure is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 32 minutes ago, radoran said: I don't like his -33 year a couple years back, either. But, floater or no, he's a hole that they still haven't filled. In fact, they've only dug it deeper. Schenn is the new JVR, floater and all. But he scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, brelic said: Schenn is the new JVR, floater and all. But he scores more than half of his goals the past two seasons on the power play. Fixed it for you. JVR has 11 of 39 the past two seasons on the man advantage and just 29 of his 96 goals as a Leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 2 hours ago, radoran said: Fixed it for you. JVR has 11 of 39 the past two seasons on the man advantage and just 29 of his 96 goals as a Leaf. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Schenn scores and JVR doesn't. Sorry, poor choice of words and structure on my part. I just meant that, yes, Schenn may be a floater like JVR, but, similar to JVR, he scores goals. And the last time I checked, goals win hockey games. Schenn's not my favourite player, but he does what no one other than Simmonds does better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Just now, brelic said: Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Schenn scores and JVR doesn't. Sorry, poor choice of words and structure on my part. I just meant that, yes, Schenn may be a floater like JVR, but, similar to JVR, he scores goals. And the last time I checked, goals win hockey games. Schenn's not my favourite player, but he does what no one other than Simmonds does better. Yeah, no worries. I'm a little salty today My point would be that floating around and not scoring 5v5 isn't what the team needs and, in fact, JVR while he may "float" scores 5v5. A lot. Goal scoring in general haunts this team and having the two top players not be guys that fill the twine isn't a recipe for success in the Metropolitan Division. They're 27 behind Columbus in goals scored, 40 behind the Rangers, 42 behind Washington and 54 behind the Pens. The only two teams they've scored more than in the division are Carolina and New Jersey - which isn't winning anybody anything. The team is 20th overall in goals this season and 22nd over all at even strength - again trailing the Pens (53) Rangers (46), Capitals (46) and Blue Jackets (40). For that matter, they trail the Islanders by 40. I'm still looking for the point where building this whole thing around the VeeGees gets the results they're looking for because they're sitting 22 points out of a guaranteed playoff spot just 16 points out of last place in the division (the good news being that they neatly avoided being swept by the last place team, while being outscored 14-6). And there isn't a whole lot that looks like it'll be changing next season, much less the next 2-4.... or five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, radoran said: Yeah, no worries. I'm a little salty today My point would be that floating around and not scoring 5v5 isn't what the team needs and, in fact, JVR while he may "float" scores 5v5. A lot. Goal scoring in general haunts this team and having the two top players not be guys that fill the twine isn't a recipe for success in the Metropolitan Division. They're 27 behind Columbus in goals scored, 40 behind the Rangers, 42 behind Washington and 54 behind the Pens. The only two teams they've scored more than in the division are Carolina and New Jersey - which isn't winning anybody anything. The team is 20th overall in goals this season and 22nd over all at even strength - again trailing the Pens (53) Rangers (46), Capitals (46) and Blue Jackets (40). For that matter, they trail the Islanders by 40. I'm still looking for the point where building this whole thing around the VeeGees gets the results they're looking for because they're sitting 22 points out of a guaranteed playoff spot just 16 points out of last place in the division (the good news being that they neatly avoided being swept by the last place team, while being outscored 14-6). And there isn't a whole lot that looks like it'll be changing next season, much less the next 2-4.... or five. again which is why I'm not opposed to trading "El Captain". However, I understand the POV of those who are opposed to such trade. 1) who would you trade to and convince to take on that contract 2) who takes over as the 1C. Leaving a void in that position. Though in reality this season it has been a void all season long for him. His SH% this year is 7% which is below his Career SH% of 11%. So I guess he might rebound next year, but I have no faith in that. Maybe in a few years Rubstov "might" be able to fill that void, but I thought I read he is more a 2C player than a 1C. As you stated, in this division you simply CANNOT get by with this paltry output of goal scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 3 hours ago, brelic said: Schenn is the new JVR, floater and all. But he scores. Ya, I think a big part of the JVR hate comes with the fact we used the 2nd overall pick for him. That's not his fault, it just wasn't a great draft. But when you see other teams luck out with the Doughtys and Malkins of the league and you get JVR.... We traded our 24th pick that we got 6 great years out of for Schenn AND Simmonds. And a 2nd. maybe that shouldn't factor in how you judge a player. Maybe you shouldn't judge him by his contract. But I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilldoc Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Ya, I think a big part of the JVR hate comes with the fact we used the 2nd overall pick for him. That's not his fault, it just wasn't a great draft. But when you see other teams luck out with the Doughtys and Malkins of the league and you get JVR.... yeah....it stings a bit, I totally agree. Of all the drafts not to be so great, the Flyers happened to pick #2 in that one. Wasn't that the year they first instituted the Draft Lottery? Imagine if the Flyers got to pick #1 overall and took Kane .... how might have the fortunes of this franchise changed and do the Hawks go on and win 3 SC? I agree it is a bitter sweet pill we have to swallow ....... Oh and to refresh memories here are the first 15 picks of that draft...... Selections by round[edit] = NHL All-Star[8] · = NHL All-Star[8] and NHL All-Star Team · # Player Nationality NHL Team College/Junior/Club Team 1 Patrick Kane (RW) United States Chicago Blackhawks London Knights (OHL) 2 James van Riemsdyk (LW) United States Philadelphia Flyers University of New Hampshire (Hockey East) 3 Kyle Turris (C) Canada Phoenix Coyotes Burnaby Express (BCHL) 4 Thomas Hickey (D) Canada Los Angeles Kings Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL) 5 Karl Alzner (D) Canada Washington Capitals Calgary Hitmen (WHL) 6 Sam Gagner (C) Canada Edmonton Oilers London Knights (OHL) 7 Jakub Voracek (RW) Czech Republic Columbus Blue Jackets Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) 8 Zach Hamill (C) Canada Boston Bruins Everett Silvertips (WHL) 9 Logan Couture (C) Canada San Jose Sharks (from St. Louis)1 Ottawa 67's (OHL) 10 Keaton Ellerby (D) Canada Florida Panthers Kamloops Blazers (WHL) 11 Brandon Sutter (C/RW) Canada Carolina Hurricanes Red Deer Rebels (WHL) 12 Ryan McDonagh (D) United States Montreal Canadiens Cretin-Derham Hall High School (MSHSL) 13 Lars Eller (C/W) Denmark St. Louis Blues (from Toronto via San Jose)2 Frolunda HC Jr. (Sweden) 14 Kevin Shattenkirk (D) United States Colorado Avalanche US National Development Team (NAHL) 15 Alex Plante (D) Canada Edmonton Oilers (from NY Islanders)3 Calgary Hitmen (WHL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 59 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I think a big part of the JVR hate.. ...is his stupid mole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 4 hours ago, radoran said: Fixed it for you. Weighted heavily by this year, the first year he's ever had more PP than ES goals. And he's been on the top PP for 3 years now. Prior to this year, 2/3 of his goals as a Flyer were even strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Ya, I think a big part of the JVR hate comes with the fact we used the 2nd overall pick for him. That's not his fault, it just wasn't a great draft. But when you see other teams luck out with the Doughtys and Malkins of the league and you get JVR.... We traded our 24th pick that we got 6 great years out of for Schenn AND Simmonds. And a 2nd. maybe that shouldn't factor in how you judge a player. Maybe you shouldn't judge him by his contract. But I do. Oddly enough, I find the six-year deal that JVR still has a year on at $4.25M to be one of the best that Homer negotiated... Imagine for a moment having the production from JVR and Simmonds for less than Jake Voracek. I'll give you a moment to stop screaming. JVR has outscored all but two guys in the first four rounds of that draft - Couture and Pacioretty. I like Couture fine, but I don't think people would be overly impressed with him as a #2 overall. Pacioretty has done his damage as "the guy" in Montreal, which hasn't really taken the Habs too too far (and it's still 48 more goals in 32 more games and .1 point per game over JVR). Then you have Jamie Benn in the fifth round. Doc rightly adds McDonagh and Shattenkirk. Hindsight, as always, being 20/20. Of course, ten (or more) other teams also passed on those two. He outscores #7 overall Voracek by seven goals, with two seasons (160 games) fewer games and is .08 points per game less than Voracek. And we have Voracek for seven more years at $8.25M per. I understand people being upset that "all they got" was JVR at #2, but they don't seem to be upset with the Flyers for picking a bad draft year to suck so badly in. And the desire to continually insist the grass wasn't all that green to begin with seems like a clear case of sour grapes. And I get the JVR "disappointing" thing. Primarily because I've heard it before. Justin Williams' career .628 points per game looks really similar to JVR's .638... But, of course, they almost made the Finals in 2004. So we've got that going for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 23 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Weighted heavily by this year, the first year he's ever had more PP than ES goals. And he's been on the top PP for 3 years now. Prior to this year, 2/3 of his goals as a Flyer were even strength. Yes, it does weight more this season. Quibble with the numbers, but they remain the 28 of 51 over the past two seasons I referenced. He had 11 of 26 last season and 17 of 25 this year. That's 42% and 68% this year. But if we want to go back three years he had 7 of 18 - 38% (which is pretty much in line with the 42% the next season). And that comes out to half of his goals (35 of 69) over the past three seasons coming on the power play. If we look at this year as an aberration and go with the average of the past two, 40% reliance on the power play scoring is also higher than all but two of the top 20 goal scorers in the league this season - Kucherov and Ovechkin. #21 is Simmonds at 53%. And then there's only three more guys ahead of Schenn - Seguin, Benn, Hoffman - with comparable percentages. Of all of them, only Ovechkin and Hoffman are currently in the playoffs. If Kucherov makes it, it's at the expense of Hoffman. And Ovechkin's lack of team playoff success is pretty well documented even with his .48 goals per game in the postseason. While Ovechkin does have 37% of his career 558 goals on the man advantage, I think we can pretty much be confident in an assertion that Brayden Schenn isn't the goal scorer that Alex Ovechkin is. Again, the relevant point is that teams who are overreliant on power play production often struggle in the postseason as there's generally fewer power play opportunities. If they get there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 1 hour ago, radoran said: Oddly enough, I find the six-year deal that JVR still has a year on at $4.25M to be one of the best that Homer negotiated... Imagine for a moment having the production from JVR and Simmonds for less than Jake Voracek. I'll give you a moment to stop screaming. JVR has outscored all but two guys in the first four rounds of that draft - Couture and Pacioretty. I like Couture fine, but I don't think people would be overly impressed with him as a #2 overall. Pacioretty has done his damage as "the guy" in Montreal, which hasn't really taken the Habs too too far (and it's still 48 more goals in 32 more games and .1 point per game over JVR). Then you have Jamie Benn in the fifth round. Doc rightly adds McDonagh and Shattenkirk. Hindsight, as always, being 20/20. Of course, ten (or more) other teams also passed on those two. He outscores #7 overall Voracek by seven goals, with two seasons (160 games) fewer games and is .08 points per game less than Voracek. And we have Voracek for seven more years at $8.25M per. I understand people being upset that "all they got" was JVR at #2, but they don't seem to be upset with the Flyers for picking a bad draft year to suck so badly in. And the desire to continually insist the grass wasn't all that green to begin with seems like a clear case of sour grapes. And I get the JVR "disappointing" thing. Primarily because I've heard it before. Justin Williams' career .628 points per game looks really similar to JVR's .638... But, of course, they almost made the Finals in 2004. So we've got that going for us. Ya, when I mentioned contract, I was actually thinking of people (including me) of judging McDud...but it sounded like I meant JVR. His contract is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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