B. Schenn traded to Blues for J. Lehtera and a Conditional 1st in 2018

[vis]

1 minute ago, AJgoal said:

I don't like Lehtera with two years left. The two firsts are a good return, but draft picks are all about asset management and the Flyers could have gotten better value out of this by immediately trading back if they really liked Frost. I'm not going to pretend I know a lot about these kids, but Tolvanen is apparently a shooting LW. Would have made more sense from a pipeline perspective.

I thought they were going to take Tolvanen and was OK with that.  Then this kid?  No offense to him, but was there really a need to reach for him here?

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, terp said:

Sanheim was a reach too.

 

touche' ...you are correct .....

[vis]

Just now, Philly29 said:

So getting two 1st round draft picks is not a good thing? I think you are way over valuing Schenn here.

Two late round picks, the first in a weaker draft and then you select a player who was not a first round projection?  I don't see it.  And they take back a guy with virtually the same contract who, in all honesty, is not living up to his contract and, as far as I can tell, doesn't solve a need.  

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, vis said:

I thought they were going to take Tolvanen and was OK with that.  Then this kid?  No offense to him, but was there really a need to reach for him here?

 

I know this has been a really wonky draft, but Tolvanen at 27 was a value pick. 

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, vis said:

I thought they were going to take Tolvanen

 

me too ..... again ..unless Hexy knows something

we don't.

[OccamsRazor]

Wow. Everyone needs to chill.

 

Wait till Hextall is done then go from there.

 

Brayden was not a fav of mine.

 

Was invisible a lot and can't play center is more a winger and a PP specialist.

 

Ron was part of the brain trust that traded him out of L.A. and now has done it again so we'll see. 

 

I think they have more up their sleeve.

 

As far as the kid they got at #27 i'll have to do more research on to form an opinion.

 

I'll to see how this finishes unfolding.

 

Something tells there is another trade to go down more than likely for a goalie....

 

...relax folks drink a beer...

 

 

 

[vis]

8 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Vis:  We have a lot tied up in Jake and Claude, for a long time, with Claude in possible decline.  I am not sure Lehtera pickup; don't know much about him.  Schenn is a fine player and I am sorry to see him go.  But I suspect there is method to Hextall's apparent madness. 

Outside of his drafting, let's look at this madness:

- Traded for Umberger

- Resigned Voracek, Raffl and Bellemarre to ridiculous contracts.

- Signed Weise to a ridiculous contract.

- Brought in stiffs from time to time to clog up the bottom 6 and defensive pairings.  

 

And now trades Schenn for...what?  I first round pick who is a second round talent.  Likely a bottom half pick next year?  Meanwhile, you trade a young player who was one of your better scorers?  Really?

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

As far as the kid they got at #27 i'll have to do more research on to form an opinion.

 

I know zero about Morgan Frost but apparently he is a center to! It's like Oprah with the car giveaway. "You get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center...everyone gets a center"

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

7 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

So getting two 1st round draft picks is not a good thing? I think you are way over valuing Schenn here.

 

No, not saying getting two 1st rounders is a bad thing at all...........but then again, those two 1st rounders are just that, two 1st rounders. Haven't done anything yet and it is possible they don't pan out as well as some think.

 

Chances are, of course, that Patrick will, while most will take a 'wait n see' attitude on Frost, but when you get down right to it, and compare the player for player in Schenn and Lehtera, Schenn is the better player.

 

And no, I am not claiming Schenn is some sort of elite player and I don't believe I am overvaluing him.

But in this case, he is clearly the superior player to the one Philly got back.

 

And I have said on other threads that B.Schenn could play on the Lightning or Wild for me any time. I think he still has room to grow just a bit at age 25 and hasn't quite reached his full potential, such as it may be.

[jammer2]

28 minutes ago, vis said:

Terrible trade.  Sorry.  I'm officially done with Hextall.  The kid they selected wasn't even a first round prospect.  The pick is top 10 protected next year, which is supposed to be a good draft.  No way the Blues finish in the top 10.  Really?  Trading a producing player for an 29 year old yet to save $800k on the cap and one year who had 7G and 22PTS last year?  Sorry.  Not a fan of this trade and I'm not even a Schenn fan.

 

 I has season tickets in the OHL last year. I had 4 *similar* type of forwards who were kinda bunched in there. I had Suzuki going first among them, Robert Thomas from London going 2nd among that group and then Frost and Alex Formenton, also of London .....those guys are all very talented, all worthy of being 1st rounders....and Suzuki deserved the top half of the 1st. I liked Frost, like Robert Thomas a *bit* more, but I liked his skating style, liked how smart he was, liked his vision....Frost is a VERY good pick.

 

The Flyers HAD to get more speed into the line up. Schenn piled up the pp points, but was barely an average skater, yet taking up a top 6 spot. Flyers got more talented and faster in this deal. That is not even counting the 1st for next year. Very nice value for B.Schenn. He did a lot of things ok, never, ever was great at anything. That one timer he always tried that shot, it rarely worked. Schenn lacked vision, smarts....and even his grit was just average. This was a real solid hockey trade. 

[Philly29]

18 minutes ago, vis said:

Two late round picks, the first in a weaker draft and then you select a player who was not a first round projection?  I don't see it.  And they take back a guy with virtually the same contract who, in all honesty, is not living up to his contract and, as far as I can tell, doesn't solve a need.  

John Carlson was drafted 30th overall. Damn I would love to have that pick back.

[OccamsRazor]

5 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I know zero about Morgan Frost but apparently he is a center to! It's like Oprah with the car giveaway. "You get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center and you get a center...everyone gets a center"

 

 

From what i have seen he is a LW with a quick accurate release.

 

Flyers can go by all these scouts outside of their club.

 

They have to scout trust their scouts build THEIR draft board and go by that.

 

Like the old saying listen to the fans and you will be soon sitting with them.

 

Trust. The. Process!

 

That is all carry on....

[Philly29]

13 minutes ago, TropicalFruitGirl26 said:

 

No, not saying getting two 1st rounders is a bad thing at all...........but then again, those two 1st rounders are just that, two 1st rounders. Haven't done anything yet and it is possible they don't pan out as well as some think

It is also possible that they do like I said to another poster, damn I would love to have John Carlson right now instead of trading away our 30th overall for steve eminger so you never know those picks could turn out to be super stars also.

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I has season tickets in the OHL last year. I had 4 *similar* type of forwards who were kinda bunched in there. I had Suzuki going first among them, Robert Thomas from London going 2nd among that group and then Frost and Alex Formenton, also of London .....those guys are all very talented, all worthy of being 1st rounders....and Suzuki deserved the top half of the 1st. I liked Frost, like Robert Thomas a *bit* more, but I liked his skating style, liked how smart he was, liked his vision....Frost is a VERY good pick.

 

The Flyers HAD to get more speed into the line up. Schenn piled up the pp points, but was barely an average skater, yet taking up a top 6 spot. Flyers got more talented and faster in this deal. That is not even counting the 1st for next year. Very nice value for B.Schenn. He did a lot of things ok, never, ever was great at anything. That one timer he always tried that shot, it rarely worked. Schenn lacked vision, smarts....and even his grit was just average. This was a real solid hockey trade. 

 

@jammer2

 

I trust your scouting reports because I know you see the games live in person and I also know that your are very fair when it comes to evaluating players in your posts.  All I can say is that I trust what you see.

When it comes to player evaluations, I am like everyone else...I just read what everyone else reads.

 

i sincerely appreciate your input .....

 

 

[vis]

4 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

This was a real solid hockey trade. 

Explain to me what Lehtera brings to the table.

 

Thanks for the report on Frost.  Can you explain why no one has him projected in the first round and seems like most, as I see now, had him as a late second or even third round player?  What kind of player does he project to be?  Goal scorer?  Playmaker?  Defensive forward?  What is his ceiling?

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

From what i have seen he is a LW with a quick accurate release.

 

Flyers can go by all these scouts outside of their club.

 

They have to scout trust their scouts build THEIR draft board and go by that.

 

Like the old saying listen to the fans and you will be soon sitting with them.

 

Trust. The. Process!

 

That is all carry on....

 

and I admit, I was being a touch sarcastic.  I think it is all just a shock to many of us ......

agree ...gotta trust the process......

[Howie58]

 

 

Here is a mid-term take on Hextall:

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/sam_donnellon/Philadelphia-Flyers-GM-Ron-Hextall-status-jury-out.html

 

Agreed some of his moves seem bad, others have yet to pan out.  He inherited a mess; I think things are better.

 

The cap increase this year was a meager 1.5 mil.  I think this was a small relative to prior years:

 

https://www.thescore.com/news/1310013

 

If people keep cutting their cord, the big four leagues have to worry.  

 

[vis]

3 minutes ago, Philly29 said:

John Carlson was drafted 30th overall. Damn I would love to have that pick back.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Philly29]

7 minutes ago, vis said:

Explain to me what Lehtera brings to the table.

Why are you so caught up with Lehtera. The trade is about getting two 1st round picks as well as moving a player who was getting paid 5 mil a year to be an average does all things okay but nothing great type of player. Also he is as soft as ice cream....

 

We had to take salary back in Lehtera in order for this to work I would assume. Also Lehtera should be much easier to move around the line up than Schenn.

[Philly29]

3 minutes ago, vis said:

Thanks for the reminder.

No problem

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Love it. With Schenn gone, the right side becomes Voracek, Simmonds and Konecny. The left side will probably be Lindblom, Weal and maybe Leier. Then It's Giroux, Couturieur and Patrick down the middle. The Flyers are still in good shape. As for Morgan Frost, he's a good pick. He's s buzzsaw on the ice and his game is very reminiscent of David Krejci, a very fine hockey player. 

[FD19372]

I feel like they traded Brayden Schenn 1.0 for Brayden Schenn 2.0, except that Lehtera does not put the puck in the net. I don't like this trade one bit. On top of that, correct me if I'm wrong...they only save $400,000 in cap space. Please Mr. Hextall, tell me there's another shoe to drop. 

[Philly29]

3 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Love it. With Schenn gone, the right side becomes Voracek, Simmonds and Konecny. The left side will probably be Lindblom, Weal and maybe Leier. Then It's Giroux, Couturieur and Patrick down the middle. The Flyers are still in good shape. As for Morgan Frost, he's a good pick. He's s buzzsaw on the ice and his game is very reminiscent of David Krejci, a very fine hockey player. 

Do not forget Filppula

[hf101]

1 minute ago, vis said:

Explain to me what Lehtera brings to the table.

 

Thanks for the report on Frost.  Can you explain why no one has him projected in the first round and seems like most, as I see now, had him as a late second or even third round player?  What kind of player does he project to be?  Goal scorer?  Playmaker?  Defensive forward?  What is his ceiling?

 

In defense of Frost, once you get past the first 15 or so picks or so, the next 30 become a matter of preference as to how specific teams rank their boards imo.

 

futureconsiderations.ca: “A playmaking pivot who reads the game intelligently…calm and poised…agile on his skates and possesses excellent edge work, enabling him to cut in and out of defenders quickly to make plays…always looking for his best option…carries the puck with speed and is strong on the attack, dishing at the right time and right on the tape of his target before continuing on into the zone as a pass back option…smart with and without the puck.”

 

thehockeywriters.com: “The thing that stands out about Frost on tape and in person is how smart he is. He’s got a knack of seeing a play one to two steps ahead of everyone else. He can put the puck in places for his teammates to make plays. Even if a play doesn’t work, Frost is relentless and can force second and third chances by creating turnovers.”

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

1 minute ago, Philly29 said:

Do not forget Filppula

Filppula is now fourth on the depth chart. Ridiculous.....