B. Schenn traded to Blues for J. Lehtera and a Conditional 1st in 2018

[Podein25]

20 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

Who cares? They don't pay him to speak English.

 

Agreed.

[AJgoal]

I wouldn't mind still having Schenn, but I still like the deal. The biggest question I have is where would he fit on this team? First line between Giroux and Konecny, dropping Couturier between Voracek and Lindblom, and Patrick between Simmonds and Weal? I don't know that Patrick should be buried as a 3C for the foreseeable future, and Couturier has certainly proven that he is a top-2 center. Schenn is likely a matchup problem as 3C, do you put him there? I'm not sure.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

Completely agree.  I have no reason to question that.   Was basically just for "I'm bored, so let's pretend we know what we're doing" sake.

 

Me too. Just wish I had time to be bored.  It’s a rough week

[jammer2]

12 hours ago, ruxpin said:

@flyercanuck  @jammer2

 

If the Blues' pick falls into the 13-18 range, who are you hoping for?     I'm thinking get PBA (always), but looking at it myself and never having any eyeball on them, nothing is jumping.

 

What are your thoughts on Akil Thomas?   He may have fallen back into late first round and is on the young side for the draft class.   First, what are your thoughts on him, and is it possible he's still around if we trade back to mid-20s?

 

 I have never watched Thomas play, so I only know what I have read. Some scouts and or bloggers claim he has slipped back a bit, into the late 1st round range. He is supposed to be a big kid with decent hands and skates ok...I would imagine along the same lines at Ratcliffe. I'm always interested in big, fast with good hands.

 

 Right now, the Blues pick would be 18, the worst non playoff pick. ...but the Blues are only 1 point behind the Ave's for the final wildcard spot in the West. ...BUT Blues have one game at hand also, so their fate is in their own hands. 

[flyercanuck]

4 hours ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I have never watched Thomas play, so I only know what I have read. Some scouts and or bloggers claim he has slipped back a bit, into the late 1st round range. He is supposed to be a big kid with decent hands and skates ok...I would imagine along the same lines at Ratcliffe. I'm always interested in big, fast with good hands.

 

 Right now, the Blues pick would be 18, the worst non playoff pick. ...but the Blues are only 1 point behind the Ave's for the final wildcard spot in the West. ...BUT Blues have one game at hand also, so their fate is in their own hands. 

 

I think you're thinking of someone else jammer...Thomas is about 5'10 and around 175. He's no Ratcliffe. And his skating is a plus.

[jammer2]

6 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

I think you're thinking of someone else jammer...Thomas is about 5'10 and around 175. He's no Ratcliffe. And his skating is a plus.

 

ahhh, ok....yeah, mixed up prospects then. Didn't go to many games this year. 

[Leach27]

Could have used schenn for this series. Everyone still happy with the trade?

[radoran]

7 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

Could have used schenn for this series. Everyone still happy with the trade?

 

Schenn hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2012 and has five assists in his past 13 playoff games.

 

What were they going to use him for? 

 

Quite frankly, this team is not a Brayden Schenn away from beating Pittsburgh.

 

So, yes, still happy with the trade.

[Leach27]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

Schenn hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2012 and has five assists in his past 13 playoff games.

 

What were they going to use him for? 

 

Quite frankly, this team is not a Brayden Schenn away from beating Pittsburgh.

 

So, yes, still happy with the trade.

 

"Schenn hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2012 and has five assists in his past 13 playoff games". so that means we can predict he won't score any more goals in the playoffs ever??

 

"Quite frankly, this team is not a Brayden Schenn away from beating Pittsburgh" - He definitely could have helped the team in the playoffs, as he does play with an edge. Possibly with schenn they wouldn't be playing the pens right now at all, would have finished higher in the standing with his 72 pts. 

[ruxpin]

19 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

Could have used schenn for this series. Everyone still happy with the trade?

 

Ecstatic.

 

Haven't missed him for a nanosecond.

[Leach27]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

Ecstatic.

 

Haven't missed him for a nanosecond.

 

you must be enjoying the series then. 

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, Leach27 said:

 

you must be enjoying the series then. 

 

The demolition of logic on this board recently is astounding to me.  You're usually a better poster than that.

[Leach27]

Support of hexys studipity is also a "demolition of logic". 

[radoran]

14 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

 

"Schenn hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2012 and has five assists in his past 13 playoff games". so that means we can predict he won't score any more goals in the playoffs ever??

 

"Quite frankly, this team is not a Brayden Schenn away from beating Pittsburgh" - He definitely could have helped the team in the playoffs, as he does play with an edge. Possibly with schenn they wouldn't be playing the pens right now at all, would have finished higher in the standing with his 72 pts. 

 

No, it doesn't mean that he'll never score again. He just hasn't. And isn't.

 

And if you honestly think he was going to be a 70 point player on the wing here on the second line and not playing first line center between Tarasenko and Schwartz I don't know what to tell you.

 

I liked Schenn. I don't miss him a bit.

[mojo1917]

43 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

Could have used schenn for this series. Everyone still happy with the trade?

yes.

**** that guy.

Schenn hasn't scored in the playoff either. oh wait, his team didn't make it.

this is a loser argument, back down off the bridge.

[Leach27]

Just now, mojo1917 said:

yes.

**** that guy.

Schenn hasn't scored in the playoff either. oh wait, his team didn't make it.

this is a loser argument, back down off the bridge.

 

Come on you are going to blame one player for the team not "making it"?? He still had a good season regardless. your logic is flawed.

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

The demolition of logic on this board recently is astounding to me.  You're usually a better poster than that.

 

Okay, so the above doesn't make me a particularly good poster either.

 

But the leap from "I'm happy with the trade" to "you must be happy with this series" is silly.    But  you know that.

 

 

Schenn:

 

There's two parts to this.  His play in St. Louis, and what he would have realistically accomplished here (including what difference he'd have made in this series).

 

St. Louis:   He didn't make anyone better.  He's not going to and has no history of that.   He had a terrific start and played well with Schwartz and Tarasenko.   Unexpectedly well.   But they made him better, not the other way around.   This is evidenced by his drastic fall-off when Schwartz got hurt.   That's actually okay (the "they made him better").   I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, and if he's going to keep up, that's terrific.   But he also has a history of hot period followed by disappearing act.   So, was it entirely Schwartz's injury or was it time?   Probably a mixture of both, but since Schwartz DID get injured it's hard to say about the "it's time" part.    

 

But if one accepts the "he doesn't make people around him better" and accepts the "he needs line mates to make him better" that brings us back to Philly.

 

Where would the "make Schenn better" come from in Philly?   The honest truth is that had he stayed he doesn't get made 1C.  He probably doesn't even play center.  Is that Schenn's problem?  No.  Is that more an indictment of our coach and maybe even management?  Possibly.    But even if he does play center -- pretend 1C  -- he's never shown any particular ability to play with Giroux.   It hasn't gone well previously.    I'm not sure how a line with Schenn, Giroux, and TK would look.   I think TK and Schenn would clash on the same line, actually.   So put Voracek there?   That hasn't worked well previously.

 

So, Schenn gets dropped down lineup, probably at wing.   If he's C, he's probably slated on the 4th line behind Giroux, Patrick, and Coots (pretending Giroux stays on wing,  3C if not).   Who wants Schenn at third line center?  The option would be Patrick at 3C or flipped to wing, neither of which is a good thing, IMO.

 

Maybe Schenn would have helped on the PP.  He obviously did before.  That probably would have made the 2nd unit better even assuming Schenn goes to the first unit (by bumping someone down).   

 

Lehtera isn't the problem in this series.  Not in the sense that he's causing a problem.   The problem is that our bottom six are so weak that Lehtera seems like a better option than other.  That IS a problem.  

 

So, the reason I responded to your "you don't miss Schenn so you must enjoy this series" the way I did and why I think it's a weird (silly) leap is that I don't believe Schenn changes much in this series.   In PHILLY, he's certainly not a difference to overcome 17-1 in three games.  Not unless he can play goal.    I also don't think the Flyers make the playoffs without that trade (I know, they're getting blown out, so it's possibly a WHO CARES! argument).    The reason I say that is I think if the trade doesn't happen that it's unlikely Giroux makes the switch to wing and it's unlikely he has the year he has.   It's also unlikely that Coots goes to 1C and has the year he did.   So, we have Coots at 3C and Schenn bouncing around all over the place and hurting the team 5v5 because we can't figure out how to properly use him.

 

Instead, we make the playoffs (I know),  have Frost, and Schenn does so well in St. Louis that they miss the playoffs and we likely have a mid-teen pick from him this year.

 

And we have Lehtera killing penalties (What???).  Okay, so it's not all good.   One more year of that unless we have enough come up (or change coaches) that he's reduced to limited 4th line time or sits.

 

Sorry for the previously curt answer.   I'm getting exasperated by the volume of "oh my God, we're losing, Why???" posts.

[pilldoc]

32 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

 

you must be enjoying the series then. 

The trade was NEVER about this season or playoffs. It was looking towards the future of which  Schenn was never apart of.  You DO realize that of Schenn's 72 points almost 50 of them were in the first 42 games.  In the 2nd half of the season he was virtually non-existent. So yes... I'm quite happy of the trade.

 

I said all along this was a borderline playoff team. Why is everyone so surprised about the outcome.....?????

[mojo1917]

11 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

 

Come on you are going to blame one player for the team not "making it"?? He still had a good season regardless. your logic is flawed.

so is yours.

[ruxpin]

9 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

 

Come on you are going to blame one player for the team not "making it"?? He still had a good season regardless. your logic is flawed.

 

He only had a good season if you simply look at the season totals.  He disappeared from December on.  He had a little bit of an uptick toward the end which helped the "but he had a good season" argument.  But it's just not the case.   He's not a 1C, and most of us knew that last summer.  In any case, he wouldn't have been here.  Rad said 2nd line winger.  That's optimistic.  I'm sure he would have been on occasion, but track record is that he would have been up and down all over the place.

 

I have no doubt he would have added some points on the power play.  We probably missed him there, especially with Simmonds having such an off year.  But I'll sacrifice that for better later.

[Leach27]

5 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

The trade was NEVER about this season or playoffs. It was looking towards the future of which  Schenn was never apart of.  You DO realize that of Schenn's 72 points almost 50 of them were in the first 42 games.  In the 2nd half of the season he was virtually non-existent. So yes... I'm quite happy of the trade.

 

I said all along this was a borderline playoff team. Why is everyone so surprised about the outcome.....?????

 

the jackets were also a borderline playoff team, and they don't lose 5-0. Oh wait they have our goaltender, bobrovsky. Remember him?

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

I said all along this was a borderline playoff team. Why is everyone so surprised about the outcome.....?????

 

That's the million dollar question, doc.

 

I think it really comes down to the fact that, honestly, this series has been so painful to watch.  Expected?   Yes.  I expected to lose.   17-1 in three games IS painful.   The fact that they looked in most of game 4 like they were carrying white flags is also painful to watch.  They made the comment on the broadcast that there's a point in which it becomes obvious that one team knows it's going to win and one team knows it is going to lose and that that time had come.  I think it was in the second period, and they were referring to the series not just the game.  They were right.  And that shouldn't be while the series is still 2-1 (soon to be 3-1).  

 

It just is.  Schenn wouldn't have realistically changed any of that.   He didn't in St. Louis.  Schenn in Philly:  no playoffs.   Schenn not in Philly:  playoffs.     Schenn not in St. Louis?  Playoffs.   Schenn in St. Louis?  No playoffs.   Coincidence?  YES.   But it does say that Schenn is not the difference some want to pretend he is.

[ruxpin]

1 minute ago, Leach27 said:

 

the jackets were also a borderline playoff team, and they don't lose 5-0. Oh wait they have our goaltender, bobrovsky. Remember him?

 

THERE is your difference.   Sadly, he was ours.   That trade was utter stupidity.  Some of that is hindsight, but there were a ton of people who knew when it happened (in the interest of full-disclosure, I wasn't one of the smart ones).  

 

But the difference is Columbus has a goaltender and is playing against a perennial choke-artist team.    Philly has no goalie and is playing against the two-time defending champ who will likely be three-peating.

[Leach27]

flyers always have lots of excuses, now they are the choke-artist team


 

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, Leach27 said:

 

the jackets were also a borderline playoff team, and they don't lose 5-0. Oh wait they have our goaltender, bobrovsky. Remember him?

Agree about goalie situation, but this thread and your comment was about Schenn. Don't switch topics.... Many of us on here agree the Flyers screwed the pooch with Bob.