Carter and Richards trades: A crude evaluation

[Spinorama]

@Dynamo 47

everything you said plus dumping those contracts allowed for Jagr and Talbot as well (yeah I know about Bryz.... I won't go there, it's practically a dead horse at this point) which I think have been fantastic additions as well.

Factor in the addition by subtraction aspect of gaining a harmonious locker room (for the time being) and it's all but a slam dunk. Sure I guess it could be argued that with the caliber players we gave up we may have gotten some higher profile player in return but I don't think that'd have helped as much. the group we have is young and hungry, as well as affordable.

Without getting into Bryz again, could you imagine what this team would be doing if they were living up to the expectations of the D and goal positions from over the summer, the expectations that those 2 positions would make up for the forwards... man, that'd be deadly. Still plenty of season left to tighten it up though

[Digityman]

Thought I'd bump this up again as it would be nice to follow these trades through a few years.

Through the first round of the 2012 playoffs -

Richards - 5GP, 1G, 1A, -1 - 2pts

Carter - 5GP, 0G, 2A, -1 - 2pts

-----------

Voracek - 6GP, 2G, 5A, +1 - 7pts

Schenn - 6GP, 2G, 4A, -3 - 6pts

Couturier - 6GP, 3G, 1A, +3 - 4pts

Simmonds - 6GP, 1G, 3A -3 - 4pts

4pts vs 21pts

Is it safe to say the Flyers wouldn't have advanced to the 2nd round without these trades?

Edited April 23, 2012 by Digityman
As Jack said, I missed Simmonds...just makes it even better.

[PHI Flyers10]

Thought I'd bump this up again as it would be nice to follow these trades through a few years.

Through the first round of the 2012 playoffs -

Richards - 5GP, 1G, 1A, -1 - 2pts

Carter - 5GP, 0G, 2A, -1 - 2pts

-----------

Voracek - 6GP, 2G, 5A, +1 - 7pts

Schenn - 6GP, 2G, 4A, -3 - 6pts

Couturier - 6PG, 3G, 1A, +3 - 4pts

Holmgren really **** the bed with those trades. I'm probably going to start rooting for the Oilers now.

[JackStraw]

Thought I'd bump this up again as it would be nice to follow these trades through a few years.

Through the first round of the 2012 playoffs -

Richards - 5GP, 1G, 1A, -1 - 2pts

Carter - 5GP, 0G, 2A, -1 - 2pts

-----------

Voracek - 6GP, 2G, 5A, +1 - 7pts

Schenn - 6GP, 2G, 4A, -3 - 6pts

Couturier - 6PG, 3G, 1A, +3 - 4pts

You forgot Simmonds: 1G 3A 4Pts -3

[Claude Monet]

@Digityman

to add on to Couturier

.....shut down the leagues top scorer

[Phillygrump]

One of the big things these trades did was turn the team over to Giroux as well. Now, it was turned over to Pronger first with the idea that eventually it would be turned over to G. That has made a difference in the mentality of this team IMO.

Also, I just want to say I have watched Richards and LA play Vancouver and he is still a beast on the ice. He may not be lighting up the scoreboard, but he is playing good two-way hockey like he always did. He and Brown are going to be tough for any team out west to deal with and that includes St. Louis. They would be one of the last teams I would want to play.

I agree with Flyercanuck that the Carter deal is a win already, and the Richards deal is still yet to be determined, but you can't break it down to just stats format he players traded either. Bryzgalov's addition and the turning of the team over to Giroux are factors too that are intangible. I'm happy with the trades and have accepted them so I feel no real need to grade them. These are the guys we have now.

[terp]

True story:

Speaking of Carter, he had a shot at scoring the GWG last night. Was wide open in the slot, inside the face off dot, maybe 15 feet out. Someone fed him the puck and he fumbled it, then whiffed, then shot it over the net. I was about to get mad at him again but then I realized...he doesn't play in Philly any more!

Edited April 23, 2012 by terp

[Bakanekimiwa]

i remember june 23rd, 2011 like it was yesterday. the sky was falling... on silly.com. so many posters swore they were done and looking for another team... lol.

[mojo1917]

i wasn't looking for another team, i certainly did not have any idea how good couturier would be, how good read would be , how good voras would be, how simmonds would look as though he was a born flyer, how claude giroux would insert his name with the elites of the game, that jaromir jagr would be an asset and not an asshat , how scott hartnell would stay upright long enough to score 30+... that was our best player and leading scorer, to think, eh we'll beat the pens in round one over the summer was delusional. this team has far exceeded my expectations, I'm super proud of them all.

[doom88]

I was just flat out stunned. That was a big day. I still don't like losing Richards, but the return was pretty sweet.

[mojo1917]

@doom88

I was confused, the bryzgalov signing said win now! The trades said maybe in a couple of years. I'm not going to front, I had no idea what the "plan" was.

[doom88]

@mojo1917

No one knew what the plan was, other than to improve in net. Oops.

[Digityman]

I was happy about the Carter trade but was shocked by the Richards trade. I thought they would have taken the in-between step of trading just Carter to see if Richards could return to form after a pouting period.

I was clearly wrong and hereby trust that Homer makes the right choices (with a few exceptions....Carcillo, Shelley...).

[OccamsRazor]

@mojo1917

No one knew what the plan was, other than to improve in net. Oops.

The plan was to have a "former team mate" around more to help with the gelling process...but Pronger's injury was unfortunate...so the gelling process continues...despite all the injuries and bodies in and out of the line up.

[radoran]

They got younger, cheaper and better with the trades. They lost two pieces and got six.

Had to make those move when they did, or they couldn't have made them (NMC/NTC).

They acuired forwards to step up into Briere, Hartnell, etc.; a solid, deep defense; cap space which will open up; and... well... um... er... goaltending.

Go Flyers!

[NJSikkbreed]

I liked these moves the second I heard them last summer..... but, thought they'd really come to fruition in another year or two.... I dont believe many thought

we could trade our captain and top goal scorer and the very next season become even BETTER!

But -- I liked them because it showed me, once again, the Flyers are the best run ORG in the city --- and they have a set of cajones over there....

these were the types of moves the PHILLIES needed to make a year or two ago (w/ guys like Utley, Howard, Rollins, etc) and now look at them?

Ancient, old, falling apart and probably couldnt score on a AA minor league team!

No matter what happens w/ the FLyers this year, its all gravy..... dont get me wrong, I want the Cup -- but I have so much more hope for the future now than

a year ago.... and in a strange way (havent seen anyone mention this point yet) this team has become 100x more LIKEABLE as well..... that goes along way

w/ the fans, too. Holmgren is easily the GM of the year around here.

[mojo1917]

and in a strange way (havent seen anyone mention this point yet) this team has become 100x more LIKEABLE as well..... that goes along way

w/ the fans, too

I think that point has been brought up a lot, in various threads through out the year, I know we've talked about it with regards to Pronger's absence, and the addition of Talbot and Jagr.

but i agree they are lot more fun to watch, listen to post game and seem to relish participating in the community.

Edited April 24, 2012 by mojo1917

[NJSikkbreed]

I meant as far as in "this" thread -- weighing out the trades...... even Scott Hartnell has become a fan favorite this year...... the guy who reminded me of Bambi trying to walk

across the ice in most of his career!

[brelic]

They got younger, cheaper and better with the trades. They lost two pieces and got six.

Had to make those move when they did, or they couldn't have made them (NMC/NTC).

They acuired forwards to step up into Briere, Hartnell, etc.; a solid, deep defense; cap space which will open up; and... well... um... er... goaltending.

Go Flyers!

To me, I just didn't want to see Carter for another 11 years, paying him $5.5M until he's 38 years old.

Interesting stat... Carter has never been a "plus" player in the playoffs. He was "even" one time, and was a minus player the other 5 times.

In the regular season, if you remove the CBJ stats (and the -1 in 16 games with the Kings), he has only been a minus player once in his career.

EDIT: Hmm, Richards has never been a plus player either in the playoffs (one "even" playoff run, and a minus player the other 5 times). I really would not have expected that.

Giroux has never been a minus player in the playoffs, but of course, he has had a different role than Richards, and wasn't facing the top lines until this year.

[idahophilly]

I have two fears to go along with all my agreement about how good these trades were.

1) I'm afraid Homer will trade away a few pieces when we dont have to... Id like to see it all left alone except for 1-2 players IF they have to do it for salery cap issues.

2) Not to go off topic, but a CBA work stoppage could derail some of our rookies. I hope and even doubt it will happen but that would suck with such a young team.

But beyond that, we have an embarrisment of riches...

[Spinorama]

I was just flat out stunned. That was a big day. I still don't like losing Richards, but the return was pretty sweet.

I didn't like losing Richards the player. I never minded losing what his demeanor did to that team's chemistry.

[terp]

Hmm, Richards has never been a plus player either in the playoffs (one "even" playoff run, and a minus player the other 5 times). I really would not have expected that.

He usually draws the checking assignment against the opponent's top scorer, so it makes sense.

[terp]

Here's some spin from ESPN regarding Richards:

After a disappointing regular season in which he scored only 44 points (18G, 26A) in 74 games, Richards came to play Wednesday night and was the best player on either side of the ice. He finished the game with a plus-2 rating, two shots on net, four hits, two blocked shots, and was named the game's first star.

Didn't realize he was first star the other night but this is why the Kings traded for him.

[brelic]

Here's some spin from ESPN regarding Richards:

After a disappointing regular season in which he scored only 44 points (18G, 26A) in 74 games, Richards came to play Wednesday night and was the best player on either side of the ice. He finished the game with a plus-2 rating, two shots on net, four hits, two blocked shots, and was named the game's first star.

Didn't realize he was first star the other night but this is why the Kings traded for him.

Yup, I will absolutely miss the intangibles that Richards brought to the rink. And he's got a bit of a mean streak when he wants to. I always loved his play on the ice... too bad it didn't work out.

That being said, can't be too disappointed with Schenn and Simmonds as a return, plus getting Couturier in the Carter trade offsets those intangibles and defensive play that Richards had.

[terp]

Yup, I will absolutely miss the intangibles that Richards brought to the rink. And he's got a bit of a mean streak when he wants to. I always loved his play on the ice... too bad it didn't work out.

That being said, can't be too disappointed with Schenn and Simmonds as a return, plus getting Couturier in the Carter trade offsets those intangibles and defensive play that Richards had.

I think the trade has turned out well for the Kings, the Flyers and Mike Richards. Now that Carter is out of Columbus, I don't think any of the parties to the trade would undo it if they could.