Eastern Conference: Round 1 - #2 Pittsburgh Penguins vs. #3 Philadelphia Flyers

[hf101]

21 minutes ago, B21 said:

 

Talking about the importance of having experience - not skill sets - and how that can/can't influence the less playoff-tested members of the team. Basically my way of asking - does it really matter if you have 1 guy or 3-4 guys who have "been there" as far as making sure the rest of the team "knows what it takes" (pick your playoff hockey cliche).

 

Yeah, it matters.  The Penguins have more than 3 or 4 players with experience and more importantly experience with the cup winning team.  That isn't an excuse imo.  I just frankly believe the Penguins are a better overall team right now.  I think the Flyers are still building toward a team that can be competitive in the future.  For now, it's good for them to take these steps, but this roster isn't a team who will beat any cup champion in a series.

 

Hell, we haven't even won 1 game this season vs the Penguins let alone this championship team that is playing at a level that is ready to compete for their 3rd title in a row.

[mojo1917]

13 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Man when you watch other games it really puts into perspective how crappy the Flyer's goalies are.

 

The only club that seems to think they don't need good goaltending.

 

That isn't on the coach. That is on the GM.

Elliott is clearly "not right" returning from core muscle surgery what ever the hell that means...

Neuwirth is um, fragile, talented but fragile. The talent is enticing, but the guy can't stay on the ice.

Stolarz blew up his knee.

Traded for Tokarski.

Traded for a guy who may have needed a change of scenery because he has had NHL success, Petr Mrazek

yo-yo-ed Lyon at the end of the season.

Drafted Carter Hart, Sandstrom,Ustimenko

 

The facts do not support your assertion.

 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, B21 said:

"He's a professional hitter." No shite Sherlock. Aren't they all?

This has more to do with how a player approaches the craft of hitting.  No ?

Aaron Judge rips it from his heels every at bat, and is in fact a professional baseball player who does hit the ball reasonably well. He practices and maybe studies pitcher tendencies and is moderately successful.  I don't think he looks for a specific pitch to hit to a specific place resulting in a specific outcome like Tony Gwynn did. Tony Gwynn was able to get his hips around to hit homers when necessary, he could go with the pitch, he could inside out a swing to move a runner.   Those are traits of a "professional hitter".

 

I am surprised by this lack of appreciation for nuance from you. 

 

 

 

 

[Leach27]

lose tonight and I would give this guy a chance.

 

 

[off_the_post]

15 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Fourteen of the #Flyers’ 24 shots came from up top by defensemen. Another 24 attempts were blocked. To beat Matt Murray, they’ll need to make adjustments.

That is because their zone entry is to cycle back/wrap/drop the puck back to the strong side defenseman in 75% of the cases.  Same with the power play but it is generally wrapped around to the week side entry - generally G's side depending on the entry point.  I see the Flyers wrap the puck around more than any opposing team this year I recall watching.  With the PP wall players playing on their opposite sides for inside sticks (as pretty much every team does) it makes it tougher to pick up a wrap around on your back hand -  especially 93 - who struggles with it every game. I digress..

 

I think this strategy has a time and place (and always has for that matter) but tough against fast, well coached team that are looking for that play.  Anyway that is the reason for the defenseman having so many shots IMHO.   When you have Ghost, Sanhiem and Provorov getting the puck back to the point is not terrible idea but it would likley skew the shot attempts between forwards and defenseman.  So they D need to continue to get shots on net or the forwards need to be able to cycle down low better, drive the net better, and start taking more shots. 

[B21]

29 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This has more to do with how a player approaches the craft of hitting.  No ?

Aaron Judge rips it from his heels every at bat, and is in fact a professional baseball player who does hit the ball reasonably well. He practices and maybe studies pitcher tendencies and is moderately successful.  I don't think he looks for a specific pitch to hit to a specific place resulting in a specific outcome like Tony Gwynn did. Tony Gwynn was able to get his hips around to hit homers when necessary, he could go with the pitch, he could inside out a swing to move a runner.   Those are traits of a "professional hitter".

 

I am surprised by this lack of appreciation for nuance from you. 

 

 

 

It's a vague cliche to me. They are all professionals. They all hit. Tony Gwynn is a more disciplined, technically sound hitter.  Aaron Judge is...what you said he is.  

[B21]

5 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

Yeah, it matters.  The Penguins have more than 3 or 4 players with experience and more importantly experience with the cup winning team.  That isn't an excuse imo.  I just frankly believe the Penguins are a better overall team right now.  I think the Flyers are still building toward a team that can be competitive in the future.  For now, it's good for them to take these steps, but this roster isn't a team who will beat any cup champion in a series.

 

Hell, we haven't even won 1 game this season vs the Penguins let alone this championship team that is playing at a level that is ready to compete for their 3rd title in a row.

 

This. Kinda. Yes - the Pens are better and should win. No - the "experience" the Pens gained from winning the last two Cups is not going to help them in this series. 

[brelic]

43 minutes ago, B21 said:

No - the "experience" the Pens gained from winning the last two Cups is not going to help them in this series.

 

You really believe that? I mean, not to pull a Cathy Newman (you gotta watch the YouTube interview for a textbook example of taking someone's words out of context... she's soooooooooo dense!), but are you saying that a team full of NHL veterans playing a team full of NHL rookies have no advantage? Of course, the vets wouldn't beat them everytime, but there is definitely an extra set of 'tools' to draw upon when you've become acclimated to a new environment. 

 

So in that context, it's not that 'experience' will help the Pens win the series, it's that collectively and individually, almost the entire roster has an extra set of 'tools' and 'experiences' to draw from. And of course it's not black and white, but I think there is a definite advantage to it, if they know how to draw upon it. 

 

Either way, I think we agree that the Pens are just the more talented and complete 'team' right now, and the Flyers are kind of in a teenager phase, not sure what the heck they are. Pens have an identity (two-time defending Cup champs), and Flyers are still trying to figure that out (should I laugh or cry when Malkin skates circles around me?)

 

 

 

 

[brelic]

Oh, and Let's Go Flyers!

 

7-0 Flyers tonight. 

[swflyers28]

Trying to be optimistic...

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

The facts do not support your assertion.

 

Thanks with the exception of the kids he has drafted you proved my point about the crappy goaltending....and not yours.

[OccamsRazor]

6 hours ago, off_the_post said:

When you have Ghost, Sanhiem and Provorov getting the puck back to the point is not terrible idea but it would likley skew the shot attempts between forwards and defenseman. 

 

 

Yes because they are giving up all the outside distant shots and lifting sticks, getting to lose pucks and taking away space from the ones in close.

 

That is just coaching and the opposition dicating the game.

 

It's on the coach and then the players to to counter that and dictate the game not get dictated!!!!!

[B21]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

 

You really believe that? I mean, not to pull a Cathy Newman (you gotta watch the YouTube interview for a textbook example of taking someone's words out of context... she's soooooooooo dense!), but are you saying that a team full of NHL veterans playing a team full of NHL rookies have no advantage? Of course, the vets wouldn't beat them everytime, but there is definitely an extra set of 'tools' to draw upon when you've become acclimated to a new environment. 

 

So in that context, it's not that 'experience' will help the Pens win the series, it's that collectively and individually, almost the entire roster has an extra set of 'tools' and 'experiences' to draw from. And of course it's not black and white, but I think there is a definite advantage to it, if they know how to draw upon it. 

 

Either way, I think we agree that the Pens are just the more talented and complete 'team' right now, and the Flyers are kind of in a teenager phase, not sure what the heck they are. Pens have an identity (two-time defending Cup champs), and Flyers are still trying to figure that out (should I laugh or cry when Malkin skates circles around me?)

 

 

I do believe it. 1,000%. When the Pens won the Cup in 15-16 they did it with a team that lost in the 1st round the year before and with a roster that was 25% "rookie".  Whoever picked them to win the Cup that year or in any of those series didn't do it because of the "experience" they had from the 09-10 Cup run that was 6 years in the rear view mirror at that point. They did it because the Pens were more talented. 

 

You mentioned these "tools" that the Pens have to draw on. Cool - now give me some specific examples? (Not trying to be a prick). What does one learn by actually playing in the NHL playoffs versus only having played regular season NHL games?

 

You made the same argument I have been trying to make when you said, "veterans playing a team full of NHL rookies". Bingo! That's not specific to playoff experience though. Just experience in general. That I agree with. Being a veteran likely means you have more playoffs games under your belt - sure. I don't think that more playoff games translates to being a better player in the playoffs. Cases in point: Ron Hainsey and any number of rookies who played large roles for the Pens over the last 2 years. 

[Howie58]

Here is a take on Flyers' issues, with emphasis on the "dump-and-chase" style of offense. It won't work.  

 

https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2018/4/13/17232186/flyers-vs-penguins-game-2-preview-lets-call-it-a-mulligan

 

Truth be told, this has been an issue all year.  It is our overshoot-but-underscore the opposition problem.  I am unsure if that is the talent or the coaching. 

 

 

 

 

 

[VanIsleFlyer]

@brelic 

Wow, you weren't joking about that Cathy Newman interview.  She seemed to really have an agenda and wasn't listening to what Jordan Peterson was actually saying!

 

That's 29 minutes of my life I won't get back! LOL!

 

Anyway, here's hoping that the Flyers can actually compete tonight, and draw on their "experience" of getting their butts handed to them on Wednesday night!!  Now all the playoff rookies have some "experience" to draw on!

[mojo1917]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Thanks with the exception of the kids he has drafted you proved my point about the crappy goaltending....and not yours.

 

who was available mid-season ?

who was a clearly better FA acquisition last year ?

no bud i'm not wrong and i didn't step on my crank.

 

[OccamsRazor]

15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

who was available mid-season ?

who was a clearly better FA acquisition last year ?

no bud i'm not wrong and i didn't step on my crank.

 

 

There are ways to get a goalie if you don't accept mediocrity.......and well Ron accepts it just look at his acquisitions.

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

 

who was available mid-season ?

who was a clearly better FA acquisition last year ?

no bud i'm not wrong and i didn't step on my crank.

 

 

 

There is nothing you can do about the turds now wait till the offseason.

 

I would bring back one time Flyer Carter Hutton on a two year deal.

 

Bury Neuvy in the AHL or buy him out i don't care.

[intheslot]

Would be nice if the d-men  would show the f up also ...

They played no d  the other night .

 Team d is a must ..

 

[OccamsRazor]

Yeah the have to drive the net get to loose pucks and get the PP going.

 

So many boxes need to be checked tonight if they want to win this game.

 

Oh yeah some rebound control would be nice and stopping the routine saves would help.

[Pucked in the head]

2 hours ago, brelic said:

Oh, and Let's Go Flyers!

 

7-0 Flyers tonight. 

What are you smoking dude??? Flyers will win but not by a touchdown , I think think it's going to be a 3-2 or 2-1 final tonight with Philly tying the series..... Won't be a blowout either way !!!!

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, Pucked in the head said:

What are you smoking dude??? Flyers will win but not by a touchdown , I think think it's going to be a 3-2 or 2-1 final tonight with Philly tying the series..... Won't be a blowout either way !!!!

 

 

 

Flyers win 4-2

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

 

Flyers win 4-2

3-2 Flyers in 4 OTs. May the Force be with us, and the Farce be Pittsburgh.

[Pucked in the head]

I'd like to think I'm smarter than the average bear!!!!

[Pucked in the head]

34 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

3-2 Flyers in 4 OTs. May the Force be with us, and the Farce be Pittsburgh.

And we use the emergency backup !!!