JVR back to Philly

[Howie58]

I think I meant Hextall above, but Homer and Comcast may also be getting a bit impatient.  

 

 

[csummers]

They did exactly what I knew they would do. They went to try and find a guy who could do what schenn was doing for 5 million a year. No schenn at 5 million, but lehtera and JVR for 12. And schenn is only for two more years.

 Schenn with 70 points last year, JVR and Lehter combined for 62.

 They put themselves in this spot by letting go a guy who will play for just over 5 million for two more years. Salaries go up, schenn is a steal right now.

 Lots of people who said the flyers were "stuck" with giroux and 8 million now are saying van reimsdyk makes sense at 7.

 Hextall made a mess of this whole situation, plain and simple.

[mojo1917]

10 minutes ago, csummers said:

They did exactly what I knew they would do. They went to try and find a guy who could do what schenn was doing for 5 million a year. No schenn at 5 million, but lehtera and JVR for 12. And schenn is only for two more years.

 Schenn with 70 points last year, JVR and Lehter combined for 62.

 They put themselves in this spot by letting go a guy who will play for just over 5 million for two more years. Salaries go up, schenn is a steal right now.

 Lots of people who said the flyers were "stuck" with giroux and 8 million now are saying van reimsdyk makes sense at 7.

 Hextall made a mess of this whole situation, plain and simple.

this is an interesting take.

you're Brayden's cousin then, right ?

 

I think I remember chatting with you about how the trade wasn't Schenn for Lehtera but for a 2nd first round pick

(Morgan Frost)

and Lehtera was the cost of doing business.

Morgan Frost's ceiling is higher than Brayden Schenn's his floor is higher too IMO and he's on a rookie deal...

 

Pine away for Schenn and what could have been... he was a known quantity and he didn't fit the style of player Hextall has been drafting and signing. He doesn't make others better, he can score, but he can't "get his own shot". He did not live up to outsized expectations here. 

 

The salary cap went up, the market was set for JvR by the Sharks signing E Kane to similar numbers for similar production.

103 points at 8 million is good value, so those who said we're stuck with Giroux have to mute themselves for a time... 

 

This could have all been averted had JvR not been trade for Luke in the first place, then we could have maybe seen , Schenn, between Simmonds and JvR for more than a month. 

 

The Leafs will be exciting, the Islanders had a good draft, just saying. 

 

 

[csummers]

Just chasing loses now is all. You really cant look at the signing of jvr and what they needed without looking at how they got into that situation and how it could have been handled better and cheaper with what they already had. Nothing to do with pining away for schenn, its a business and they made a horrible business decision. Frost may never play a season, let alone score 70 points.

 I defended giroux too, does that make me his cousin?(I was also exactly right on that, so it makes me two for two)

 Are you morgan frosts great grandfather?. 

 I could come on here every day and comment about noise and silly moves or what some draft pick did in a warmup video but I prefer to just look at major deals.

 You can defend the indefensible all you want, hextall screwed the pooch on this and there is no denying that.

 Interesting how at the time of the schenn trade it was justified as so many young guys coming up that they need room for them, and one of them will get his ice time and production. Now suddenly its okay to spend 7 mil per year for 5 years for a guy that got ran out of town a few years back who is older and weaker and softer and puts up less points. 

 Takes serious mental gymnastics to justify all this but of course, some can manage it.

[murraycraven]

45 minutes ago, csummers said:

They did exactly what I knew they would do. They went to try and find a guy who could do what schenn was doing for 5 million a year. No schenn at 5 million, but lehtera and JVR for 12. And schenn is only for two more years.

 Schenn with 70 points last year, JVR and Lehter combined for 62.

 They put themselves in this spot by letting go a guy who will play for just over 5 million for two more years. Salaries go up, schenn is a steal right now.

 Lots of people who said the flyers were "stuck" with giroux and 8 million now are saying van reimsdyk makes sense at 7.

 Hextall made a mess of this whole situation, plain and simple.

 

 

And how did Schenn do in the playoffs on a very skilled team?  Oh wait....

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I wonder if this time around, Giroux is going to be on JVR if he sees him dogging it. If the Flyers get a motivated JVR (and gut feeling says JVR is probably motivated to really dazzle and fit in with the club), then I think 40 to 45 goals isn't out of the question. As for the 3C spot, if he's physically ready, then I'd put Frost there. Honestly, I think he's got nothing more to prove at the junior level. Although it would be ideal to see him get a shot at the WJC roster, there's simply nothing left for him to accomplish at the CHL level. 

 

This could be an incredibly potent offense next season. The Flyers should have two dynamite power play units and a top six that could probably score anywhere from 180 to 200 goals between them. That's ridiculous production. Add in a third line of Lindblom - Frost - Simmonds/Aube Kubel and that could be another 50 to 60 goals. 

 

The defense I'm not too concerned about. We know what we're getting with Provorov and Gostisbehere. I think this is the year Sanheim really starts to shine and Gudas should have a bounce back year (I attribute last year to a bad year and his advanced stats from last year prove it wasn't really a bad year either). If Hagg and Myers are relegated to the bottom pairing and MacDonald is the 7th, even better.

 

Goaltending is a major concern still and the Flyers need a viable backup, regardless of whether Neuvirth is using a new training regimen. The fact that both his hips were operated on this summer just doesn't sit well, especially when you consider how long it takes to recover from hip surgeries. Lehner is still sitting out there. It's time for Hextall to bite the bullet, grab Lehner for 3 years and get him to push Elliott and challenge for the starter role. He's also the perfect stop gap while waiting for one of Hart/Sandstrom to emerge. 

 

 

[King Knut]

On 6/30/2018 at 11:34 PM, hf101 said:

So does this mean Simmonds is on his way out? 

 

Nice to see our draft picks come back...........  So does this mean JRV feels he can win a cup faster in Philly than in Toronto?

 

 

It means after Toronto paid Tavares, they weren't going to have the money to pay him.

 

Also, apparently G and Jake were talking to JVR quite a bit leading up to UFA season and they also lobbied for him with Hextall.  

[jammer2]

53 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Honestly, I think he's got nothing more to prove at the junior level. Although it would be ideal to see him get a shot at the WJC roster, there's simply nothing left for him to accomplish at the CHL level. 

 

 I was thinking the same thing. Nothing more for him to learn in the Sault. I would not count out Bunnaman though. He skates well for a 6'3 guy and has a mans body already, which would help with the physical rigors of a 3C position. Odds say Flyers are patient with Bunnaman and he goes to the AHL to get ready for the pro game etc...but a strong training camp may derail all of that. 

[King Knut]

51 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I wonder if this time around, Giroux is going to be on JVR if he sees him dogging it. If the Flyers get a motivated JVR (and gut feeling says JVR is probably motivated to really dazzle and fit in with the club), then I think 40 to 45 goals isn't out of the question. As for the 3C spot, if he's physically ready, then I'd put Frost there. Honestly, I think he's got nothing more to prove at the junior level. Although it would be ideal to see him get a shot at the WJC roster, there's simply nothing left for him to accomplish at the CHL level. 

 

This could be an incredibly potent offense next season. The Flyers should have two dynamite power play units and a top six that could probably score anywhere from 180 to 200 goals between them. That's ridiculous production. Add in a third line of Lindblom - Frost - Simmonds/Aube Kubel and that could be another 50 to 60 goals. 

 

The defense I'm not too concerned about. We know what we're getting with Provorov and Gostisbehere. I think this is the year Sanheim really starts to shine and Gudas should have a bounce back year (I attribute last year to a bad year and his advanced stats from last year prove it wasn't really a bad year either). If Hagg and Myers are relegated to the bottom pairing and MacDonald is the 7th, even better.

 

Goaltending is a major concern still and the Flyers need a viable backup, regardless of whether Neuvirth is using a new training regimen. The fact that both his hips were operated on this summer just doesn't sit well, especially when you consider how long it takes to recover from hip surgeries. Lehner is still sitting out there. It's time for Hextall to bite the bullet, grab Lehner for 3 years and get him to push Elliott and challenge for the starter role. He's also the perfect stop gap while waiting for one of Hart/Sandstrom to emerge. 

 

 

 

 

I think signing a LW instead of a Center is hextall sort of throwing the gauntlet down to guys like Frost and if he fails, then to Vecchione and or Vrobyov.  I think Hextall seems to believe Frost WILL be an NHL caliber C sooner rather than later and I agree that he has nothing left to prove at the Junior level (other than getting hurt or frustrated) but like most, I'd rather see him at the AHL level this year. Unfortunately, that's not allowed.

 

Long and short I trust Hextall and co. to make the best call on him.  They made the call on Konecny and Patrick and Provo and they were right on all three.  

 

Strangely, Hextall mentioned WEAL by name as a possible 3C. And i"m wondering if this is a possible backup plan for him if Frost doesn't blow them all out of the water.  It's very  Interesting and I almost wonder if watching what St. Louis was able to accomplish by giving Schenn two competent wingers to play with and seeing him blossom.  

 

The biggest thing I'm worried about on defense is Myers not getting enough NHL time over Gudas.  

 

Goaltending is a temporary concern for this season, the future looks bright in many ways (beyond Hart even) but I know what I'd do to circumvent the problem (keep Beuvy on the travelling roster (with 1 forward and 1 D = 23 men) and use him to spell Elliott in practice - As Elliott said (without complaining) that taking every shot in every every minute of every practice was more draining on him physically than starting every night last year.

 

The real question is next year... do you dive right into Hart right away or do you bother to find someone to shepherd him in (Elliott on another -cheaper- deal?)

[King Knut]

7 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I was thinking the same thing. Nothing more for him to learn in the Sault. I would not count out Bunnaman though. He skates well for a 6'3 guy and has a mans body already, which would help with the physical rigors of a 3C position. Odds say Flyers are patient with Bunnaman and he goes to the AHL to get ready for the pro game etc...but a strong training camp may derail all of that. 

 

Is Bunnyman expected to be healthy?

[King Knut]

9 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 I was thinking the same thing. Nothing more for him to learn in the Sault. I would not count out Bunnaman though. He skates well for a 6'3 guy and has a mans body already, which would help with the physical rigors of a 3C position. Odds say Flyers are patient with Bunnaman and he goes to the AHL to get ready for the pro game etc...but a strong training camp may derail all of that. 

 

 

And also... BUNNYMAN!!!!

 

 

 

[jammer2]

Just now, King Knut said:

 

Is Bunnyman expected to be healthy?

 

 Oh, yeah.....forgot about his injury, is it an ankle....not sure, hopefully cleared up by training camp, but not sure. 

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, csummers said:

Just chasing loses now is all. You really cant look at the signing of jvr and what they needed without looking at how they got into that situation and how it could have been handled better and cheaper with what they already had.

IIRC Paul Holmgren traded for Luke Schenn, so that wasn't Hextall's move, but it was his mess to clean up.  Like much of the Flyers salary cap and prospect pool.

Hextall, had familiarity with Bryaden Schenn from his days with LA, I don't think B Schenn was ever a "Hextall guy" .

 

The Flyers needed more scoring punch to open the window for being really competitive now. JvR provides that this season, there is no "hoping he gets it" with Lindblom, or Ratcliffe...  I wonder if the player signed was different if you would think differently about the deal ?  I may be having a difference of opinion with you now, but I am not jumping up and down with excitement for this move either. 

 

However, this move does address a need, it doesn't kill the cap, he can be traded if something better comes along. 

I prefer JvR to say James Neal.

Short and medium term on paper he makes the team better.

1 hour ago, csummers said:

Are you morgan frosts great grandfather?. 

you wound me sir.  

 

 

1 hour ago, csummers said:

Now suddenly its okay to spend 7 mil per year for 5 years for a guy that got ran out of town a few years back who is older and weaker and softer and puts up less points. 

 

this whole statement is wrong. 

 

 

Brayden Schenn at 5 million on this team didn't make it any more competitive.  We saw that. He was going to be middle six, 50 points a year, bad in the defensive zone, slower skating and thinking than what's needed in the East. He was the standard bearer for mediocrity. 

 

 

[jammer2]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

Brayden Schenn at 5 million on this team didn't make it any more competitive.  We saw that. He was going to be middle six, 50 points a year, bad in the defensive zone, slower skating and thinking than what's needed in the East. He was the standard bearer for mediocrity. 

 

 

 Spot on bro.....spot friggin on. I'll take the hope and potential of Farabee anyday over Schenn. 

[ruxpin]

25 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

 

 Spot on bro.....spot friggin on. I'll take the hope and potential of Farabee anyday over Schenn. 

Right? 

 

We have Frost and Farabee for Brayden freaking Schenn. Who is so great, by the way, that the Blues just traded 2 draft picks, agreed to pay a large bonus a guy didn't earn on their team AND pay $7.5M/yr to REPLACE Brayden Schenn at 1C.  Yeah, he's terrific. 

 

To each their delusional own, but I won't be the one going through boxes of tissues or a second pack of Tampax over Brayden Schenn. 

[murraycraven]

makes me wish for the days of toughfighter!   he could at least put up a better argument.... 

[jammer2]

56 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

We have Frost and Farabee for Brayden freaking Schenn. Who is so great, by the way, that the Blues just traded 2 draft picks, agreed to pay a large bonus a guy didn't earn on their team AND pay $7.5M/yr to REPLACE Brayden Schenn at 1C.  Yeah, he's terrific. 

 

 

 Both Frost and Farabe have a legit chance at being better than Schenn. At least they can both do something above the medicore line....passing, vision....work ethic....Schenn did everything barely decent....nothing great, exceptional or even close to elite...not one frigging thing!!

[jammer2]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

you wound me sir.  

 

 

 I don't know how such a simple response can be flat out hilarious....but this little gem is just that. Have read it a few times and just giggle harder each time.....classic. 

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

you wound me sir.  

 

9 minutes ago, jammer2 said:

I don't know how such a simple response can be flat out hilarious....but this little gem is just that. Have read it a few times and just giggle harder each time.....classic. 

 

Yeah, that cracked me the hell up.

[OccamsRazor]

5 hours ago, csummers said:

lehtera  Frost, Farabee and JVR for 12.

 

There fixed it for you.

 

And JVR's team made the playoffs. Schenn's didn't.

 

JVR 3 goals and an assist in 7 games. Schenn zero points.

 

No charge. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Giroux is going to be on JVR if he sees him dogging it.

 

Why would he he doesn't do it to Jake??? Or Coots.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, King Knut said:

Hextall mentioned WEAL by name as a possible 3C.

 

 

Great that is all we need is a center who is weak and easily knocked off the puck should help greatly with puck possession.

[RonJeremy]

At this point who do we believe is best suited for 3rd line center? If Frost was 15 lbs heavier, he would be the favorite. Weal is useless, he is like a third wheel. Vorobyev or Vecchione? or a longshot like Rubstov.  Is Simmonds traded for a center, which is probably not a good idea due to our surplus of young centers.

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

We have Frost and Farabee for Brayden freaking Schenn.

 

My apologies for repeating what had already been said in a lot of this but i just woke up and responded before reading through.

 

Call me delusional but with the Flyers skillset on the blueline (much better than the Leafs) and the line mates he will play with i can see JVR scoring 40+ this year.

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

Out the door in a deal with Simmer????

 

HHHhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm???

 

Blockbuster: Simmer, Laughton, Gudas and Neuvy for............