Post Hextall press conference thread

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

Then again, I think I'm more patient than the average Flyer fan. A big part of that comes from watching them try Homer and Clarkes way for 20 friggin years with no luck, so i was all in for giving Hextalls way a shot. 

 

 I am too but i can see the other side of it there has to be a balance there between the two.

 

I think a lot of it too is the guys he brought in where not exactly game changers until JVR of course.

 

Before that think about the guys he brought in even through trades:

 

Del Zotto (this wasn't that bad a decent top 4 plug)

Bellemare

Ryan White

Nick Schultz (yuck!)

Radko Gudas wasn't that bad for Coburn and two picks.

Signed Colaiacovo (yuck!)

Traded out Hartnell for RJ. (sure they got rid of Hartnell's contract but RJ was a corpse)

 

Signed Medvedev (yuck!)

Signed Lubimov

Resigned Bellemare

 

Resigned Neuvy (yuck!)

Signed Weise and Boyd Gordon (yuck!)

 

Traded for Mrazek (yuck!)

 

Not exactly inspiring...zero game changers in the positive direction.

 

And that is why he got canned.

 

 

[vis]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

So why are the Isles able to get so much more out of a guy who we all collectively decided was a waste of space? 

Good question.  It's still early in the season, though.  Wait until the last 20 games or so and see how much gas he has left.  Just looking at some things and his shooting percentage is 33%.  That doesn't seem sustainable to me.  If I recall correctly, he had a decent start last year as well.

 

That said, Trotz >>>>>>> Hakstol.

[OccamsRazor]

36 minutes ago, radoran said:

What goalie should they have brought in?

 

Not trying to jump into this conversation but i had mentioned this before so i will kick the horse again.

 

Let's rewind back to i know shocker when they had goaltending issues in 2016-17 Neuvy goes down with a knee injury in November 14th misses 23 games they call Stolie up but won't play him they would rather run Steve into the ground he gets hurt (i think it was his glove hand at the time).

 

December 30th Isles waive Halak. Right there is your window to claim Halak send Stolie back to LV since you ain't going to play him anyways even when the game or two he got he played well.

 

There you got a decent backup/starter type for just a waiver claim then when healthy you waive Neuvy and close the door on his Flyers career but it didn't happen and Hextall just stood pat.

 

Halak might have then more than likely resigned for what he is making right now.

 

And he has played well for the Bruins 2.06 gaa 936% i would kill for a Flyer goalie with those numbers.

 

And just one example i can think of off the top of my head but i stated at the time it should have been done.

 

Hell this past September they could have claimed Hutchinson from the Panthers when they waived him i would have taken him over Pickard.

 

I guess it don't matter now all water under the bridge.

[flyercanuck]

46 minutes ago, vis said:

Well, I'd take that chance instead of relying on Elliott or Neuvirth to belie the recent past and somehow remain healthy.

 

I won't argue that. I don't think any of us thought we were getting anything spectacular when those two were signed. Somehow, on the Flyers, I doubt any of those others would be much better. 

 

46 minutes ago, vis said:

 

Be honest.  You don't like any Maple Leaf (kidding of course).  Fair enough re: Bozak.

 

But how was Grabner not on his radar?  Is he bad news or something?

 

 Not sure on Grabner. I guess he thought Vorobyev could do the job...so did a few others.

[flyer4ever]

I am as hopeful as all of you that the deep pool of prospects pans out. However, there are no guarantees. Historically speaking, very few of the players drafted after 7 or 8 become star players. They are just as valuable as tradable assets. The positive is that the new GM has some chips to play , at the very least. IMO, this team as is even with a proven goalie cannot get out of the first round, let alone make the playoffs.  I see very few untouchables, if the right offer comes along. Thats just me. Would rather bottom out than stay the mediocre path.

[flyercanuck]

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 I am too but i can see the other side of it there has to be a balance there between the two.

 

 Agreed. 

 

45 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think a lot of it too is the guys he brought in where not exactly game changers until JVR of course.

 

Before that think about the guys he brought in even through trades:

 

Del Zotto (this wasn't that bad a decent top 4 plug)

Bellemare

Ryan White

Nick Schultz (yuck!)

Radko Gudas wasn't that bad for Coburn and two picks.

Signed Colaiacovo (yuck!)

Traded out Hartnell for RJ. (sure they got rid of Hartnell's contract but RJ was a corpse)

 

Signed Medvedev (yuck!)

Signed Lubimov

Resigned Bellemare

 

Resigned Neuvy (yuck!)

Signed Weise and Boyd Gordon (yuck!)

 

Traded for Mrazek (yuck!)

 

Not exactly inspiring...zero game changers in the positive direction.

 

And that is why he got canned.

 

 

 

 In fairness to Hextall, he was handcuffed by some really bad contracts that Homer left him with. And he turned some of those into actual draft picks. But it's hard to go after FAs when you're at the cap with bums who are overpaid longterm.

 

By last summer he had cleared up most of it, and signed one of the better free agents. But again, his trading was nothing to write home about.

[radoran]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

Somehow, on the Flyers, I doubt any of those others would be much better. 

 

I think this is a cogent point. Yes, there were other mid-range goaltenders out there. I don't see one that is heads-and-shoulders above the others.

 

I like @OccamsRazor's point on Halak. But he's never been the model of consistency and was already in a goalie tandem with Elliott in St. Louis that didn't turn out well. (newsflash: I hated the Elliott signing). And I don't really think anyone was "counting" on Neuvirth, but again leaving the door open if a Lyon, Stolarz, Sandstrom or Hart wanted to walk through it.

 

Beyond that, I see a crowded roster with guys like Weise, Raffl, Lehtera that could have been replaced by guys along the same lines as Weise, Raffl and Lehtera. I don't see any real "game changers" out there that got "missed".

 

There is also a point to be made that Vorobyev, Vecchione, Rubstov, etc. were looking to be in line to make a jump and then "blocking" them with an older veteran-type.  Would a Bozak or a Grabner have made a difference on this penalty kill? I'm just not entirely convinced.

 

In many ways, we do overvalue "our" players, but I think there's also an element of undervaluing them in hindsight.

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, flyer4ever said:

I am as hopeful as all of you that the deep pool of prospects pans out. However, there are no guarantees. Historically speaking, very few of the players drafted after 7 or 8 become star players. They are just as valuable as tradable assets. The positive is that the new GM has some chips to play , at the very least. IMO, this team as is even with a proven goalie cannot get out of the first round, let alone make the playoffs.  I see very few untouchables, if the right offer comes along. Thats just me. Would rather bottom out than stay the mediocre path.

 

That seems to be the way teams are going...Leafs and Sabres both tanked to get studs. The Pens won cups that way. 

 

I'm not sure if hextall considered purging the team but doubt he was allowed to anyway.

[flyercanuck]

1 minute ago, radoran said:

 

I think this is a cogent point. Yes, there were other mid-range goaltenders out there. I don't see one that is heads-and-shoulders above the others.

 

I like @OccamsRazor's point on Halak. But he's never been the model of consistency and was already in a goalie tandem with Elliott in St. Louis that didn't turn out well. (newsflash: I hated the Elliott signing). And I don't really think anyone was "counting" on Neuvirth, but again leaving the door open if a Lyon, Stolarz, Sandstrom or Hart wanted to walk through it.

 

Beyond that, I see a crowded roster with guys like Weise, Raffl, Lehtera that could have been replaced by guys along the same lines as Weise, Raffl and Lehtera. I don't see any real "game changers" out there that got "missed".

 

There is also a point to be made that Vorobyev, Vecchione, Rubstov, etc. were looking to be in line to make a jump and then "blocking" them with an older veteran-type.  Would a Bozak or a Grabner have made a difference on this penalty kill? I'm just not entirely convinced.

 

In many ways, we do overvalue "our" players, but I think there's also an element of undervaluing them in hindsight.

 

Halak certainly wouldn't have the same numbers on Philly as he's putting up on Boston. They're just a better all around team...and one of the rare examples of drafting well no matter where you finish.

[radoran]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

By last summer he had cleared up most of it, and signed one of the better free agents. But again, his trading was nothing to write home about.

 

you've got to give to get, as I think @vis said. Could be that Hextall wasn't willing to "give" enough.

 

But a lot of folks would have been up in arms had a Myers or a Sanheim been dealt - as has been evident in this very thread.

 

I do think this came down to the team not having enough butts in the seats paying money at the fancy dancy new "ameneties" at the BBB. So now we might be back to the "we're competing for the Stanley Cup" mantra.

[radoran]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

 

Halak certainly wouldn't have the same numbers on Philly as he's putting up on Boston. They're just a better all around team...and one of the rare examples of drafting well no matter where you finish.

 

Agreed, I just don't see the "obvious" move that Hextall "should have made" that would make a game changing difference on this roster.

 

And I say that coming from a position that I think this roster is better than it has been playing.

 

I don't put that at the foot of the GM.

[pilldoc]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

So why are the Isles able to get so much more out of a guy who we all collectively decided was a waste of space? 

 

Coaching? Usage? Systems? 

 

I think you answered your own question there my friend ......

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I guess I'm not worried about things with regards to Holmgren currently running hockey operations while looking for a GM. As he said, he's not going to do anything to disturb the team and that he's more concerned about finding a GM. Fact is, and I've mentioned this in another post, no GM is going to come in and tear this apart right away. No GM is also going to deal away the team's top prospects. Do I expect second tier and marginal prospects to be moved? Yes, because that always happens due to the max number of contracts a team can have. So, Farabee, Frost, Ratcliffe, Allison, Hart, Myers, Friedman, Sandstrom, Rubtsov are safe. The prospects that will probably be shopped will include: Laberge, Lyksell, Kase, Laczynski, Hogberg. And no, they won't deal guys like Lindblom, Patrick, Konecny, Couturier, Provorov, Sanheim, Gostisbehere. 

 

In terms of goaltenders, if you look at the list of goalies available, there's not much out there. I could see a deal for someone like Linus Ullmark from Buffalo or Darcy Kuemper from Arizona and even then, you're probably looking at a mid round pick (4th and beyond) to acquire one of those guys.

 

I guess I'm not buying that they're going to tear everything apart just because Hextall is gone now. If Holmgren did nothing like that when he took over for Clarke, I certainly don't expect him to gut the team now to get a 3C or a goalie or a defenseman. It's going to be status quo until the new GM comes in and gets a chance to evaluate everything. If Homer starts blowing things up now, nobody will want to come here and honestly, everything that I've heard from the press conference, it really seems he doesn't want to be GM again.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Do I expect second tier and marginal prospects to be moved?

 

Then you can expect a marginal player back.

 

Bottom line if you want a good player you going to have to give up a good player it's that simple.

 

These GMs these days aren't that stupid.

 

I would be ok moving Sanheim like i have seen mentioned but if i do it would not be for Nylander i would need more for this kid.

 

He is close to breaking out i am not giving this kid away.

 

Am i over valuing the Flyers prospects??? Sure maybe.

 

But if other teams are allowed to over value theirs i can do the same.

 

 

#foodfrothought

[AJgoal]

Hopefully I'll have time to expound on my thoughts later tonight, but the thing that stuck out to me was the insistence that something had to be done "now." And that scares the **** out of me. Because what you can do NOW very likely isn't what you SHOULD do. It's just what you CAN. And making a move to do SOMETHING backfires way more often than it works.

[brelic]

15 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I would be ok moving Sanheim like i have seen mentioned but if i do it would not be for Nylander i would need more for this kid.

 

He is close to breaking out i am not giving this kid away.

 

Am i over valuing the Flyers prospects??? Sure maybe.

 

But if other teams are allowed to over value theirs i can do the same.

 

I mean, he might break out. And there's at least an equal chance that he will not. He could be the next Brett Burns (highly doubtful), Bouwmeester (sounds reasonable) or Coburn (never fully realizing his potential).

 

Nylander is already better than almost every forward on this team, and he's just 21. 

 

Sanheim is 22, going on 23 in the new year.

 

I'm not knocking Sanheim. In a perfect world, I'd love to keep this kid around. I like the "idea" and "potential" he represents. But part of moving a team forward is sometimes having to give up on some of "potential" you've amassed for players who are further along and realized a good chunk of their potential already.

 

The nice thing with Nylander is that he gives us a strong 3C in Patrick. 

 

And the nice thing for us is that we have a similar prospect in Myers that has the "potential" to make us forget all about Sanheim. If we didn't have that, I'd be more hesitant.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

I mean, he might break out.

 

Well since we are talking about might break out....just trade them Patrick....Nylander can have his spot in the line up...

[brelic]

33 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well since we are talking about might break out....just trade them Patrick....Nylander can have his spot in the line up...

 

See now that's just silly

 

But honestly, even though you were being facetious, Patrick might never break out. But the chances of him being a bust are much much lower than Sanheim based solely on draft position. I'd say Patrick's floor would be a 45 point 3C if everything in his development goes wrong. His ceiling is probably in the neighbourhood of Couturier - a near point-per-game #1 two-way C.

 

And again, I like Sanheim. I think he's one of our best defensemen this year, and I would love for this guy to reach his potential, ON THE FLYERS. So it has nothing to do with Sanheim. I mean, make it Ghost if you want. If it's a good, smart hockey trade, then why not?

 

It's about trading from a position of relative organizational strength that would set up the 1/2/3 C position for the next decade, not even counting on Frost or Rubtsov or O'Brien to be top 6 guys. IF they are, that's an awesome problem to have. 

 

Then we can deal one of them back to Toronto for Sanheim on the downswing of his career lol.

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, brelic said:

See now that's just silly

 

No see i'm not. I am serious.

 

Nylander has produced. Patrick hasn't. And both have displayed the ability i have seen to play soft.

 

So make it happen.

 

Or say if the Leafs don't want him then flip him somewhere else and they send those returns to the Leafs.

 

I don't want to send Sanheim to Toronto.

 

I would move Sanheim in another deal if i had to for another player i covet.

[brelic]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

No see i'm not. I am serious.

 

Nylander has produced. Patrick hasn't. And both have displayed the ability i have seen to play soft.

 

Fair enough. Patrick has been disappointing for what was basically a #1 overall consensus pick until he was injured and Hischier rose through the ranks. That being said, we can't change what he is or will be - only our expectations of him.

 

And it's still early in his career - he may take 4-5 years to really take off instead of some guys who take off as soon as they hit the league. Or he may top out as a #3C. Either way, the Flyers have to keep keepin' on, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

So make it happen.

 

Or say if the Leafs don't want him then flip him somewhere else and they send those returns to the Leafs.

 

I don't want to send Sanheim to Toronto.

 

I would move Sanheim in another deal if i had to for another player i covet.

 

Don't worry, Homer has us covered. 

 

:S

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

Don't worry, Homer has us covered. 

 

Thanks i just pooped my pants reading that.......and it's laundry day...

[Podein25]

18 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Thanks i just pooped my pants reading that.......and it's laundry day...