4Check Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, EmptyShelf said: Protect: As in Core of their franchise, to be fawned over and built around (at the expense of other developing players - to be moved for lack of fit or lack of contract fit with the Country Club). I am fully aware of the NMC/NTC's, and that was NOT the intention of my use of 'protect.' Try to keep up....How about you just admit that you are a contrarian, a sheep, or merely are trolling? Hindsight from a trade one week ago for the Wild versus over a few years for Peter C. in Edmonton?!? Whoa.....name calling and degradation. Didn't see that one coming! Have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomdog Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Nino wanted out of Minnesota, and the easiest way out is to struggle bad enough to force a trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Tomdog said: Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Nino wanted out of Minnesota, and the easiest way out is to struggle bad enough to force a trade? Hmmm....I suppose ANYTHING is a possibility. However, I have some doubts about this. One....by all indications, Nino LIKED playing in Minnesota. At least outwardly, and how he projected himself, he seemed to really embrace the fanbase, the cities, and the team mission to try and win now. He seemed very grateful to be rescued from, what at the time for him was, minor league hell, because the Islanders, run by Garth Snow, couldn't see he was more NHL worthy than some of the slugs they had on the big club at the time. Heck, he even seemed to take on a real leadership role by doing more between period interviews, NOT throwing teammates under the bus, and just overall shouldering much of the team's futility on himself.....which is why I posted many times before that this move could have removed that heavy burden he was carrying, and he could be feeling much more "free", for lack of a better term, in Carolina...but not necessarily that he wanted out. Obviously, only those behind closed doors and Nino know for sure. Maybe you ARE right. But here is my second point: Hockey players, for the most part, are very proud individuals. And given what I know about Nino (again, what he projects outwardly anyways), he just doesn't come across as the type of player that would purposely tank HIMSELF just to get moved. I mean, if he were to go that route, even if he gets his wish, he is basically sullying his OWN reputation.....basically telling other organizations that he is mentally weak and would willingly fold under pressure...and telling potential future linemates, "Hey, guys, you can't really count on me when the going gets tough" Again, I don't know him personally, but that just doesn't seem like Nino....not the same guy who looks like he works real hard at trying to be the best player he can be. If Nino wanted out, it could very well have been a difference of opinion and deployment of his talents with the coaching staff...but again, that doesn't seem likely as no matter where he was played, he just didn't produce regularly. I really don't have an answer, and I am not going to say you are absolutely wrong.....but my instinct is to say that Nino was NOT purposely tanking just to be moved. Just doesn't gel. I think this whole thing reeks of a struggling player, a head coach not in sync with how best to use his players (or struggling player letting the futility overwhelm him, and thus being his OWN worst enemy), and most DEFINITELY complicated by the front office not making the best of moves to help alleviate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti_Laxative Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Good Lord E.S. it's not like the club traded Cyclone Taylor. Sheesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Tomdog said: Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Nino wanted out of Minnesota, and the easiest way out is to struggle bad enough to force a trade? I do not think so. It is a too complicated way for Nino and he even did not have any idea that they will trade him. He would tell that he wanted out of MN to the GM or coach and we also will be able to read his desire/will in our media. No one mentioned about that, including him too. Something just was not clicking well in his play for a while in a MN club, but it happens to many players here. It is not a surprise that many Wild players are struggling in production time to time for years. Like Parise in a previous years, or Zucker and Staal so far this year. I even not saying about Ek. Nino was not an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 12 hours ago, EmptyShelf said: On 8 shots with 18 TOI. Have we ever traded a player lately (Burns) in an asset dump that made us look this dumb this fast? NN is sure making Rask look like a pumpkin, and the Wild Mgmt/coaches like a 'clown car' - and they are with this trade. I do not remember in a Wild history such a quick trade of a valuable smart talented player out of the team instead of holding him with their teeth like a dog holding his victim. Even Burns was not traded in seconds like they did it with Nino, who was just kicked away in the butt. Someone was not too smart to make that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, 4Check said: It sure has been enjoyable watching the Wild play their best hockey of the year this past week. I think Nino’s trade motivated them to play that way. Probably, this motivation was just one single positive moment of that trade so far. But who knows? Human nature is full of unpredictable tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey-78 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 4:35 PM, TonyOday said: And when Nino again goes 14 games without a goal? He is a streaky player that CF gave too big of a contract too. Yes. Nino's scoring goals now only because he plays with Aho and TT, even on the PP. They had the same effect on Ferland too. Nino's slump begins when they move speed and world class puck distribution, Aho and TT, away from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ0226 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 4:15 PM, 4Check said: Was it Peter Chiarelli who recently said....hindsight is 20/20. And just a slight clarification. The Wild are not TRYING to protect Parise and Suter. They have full NTC's, which by NHL expansion draft rules forces the Wild to protect them. Unless of course you can convince them to waive the aforementioned. Technically the Wild did protect them. They offered and agreed to NTC/NMC. That is protecting them. You are right, hindsight is 20/20 though. Still it's hard not to wonder what if. Like what if Suter and Parise were only 6 years? Wonder if we could have moved them? Wonder if we could have kept Burns? On 1/24/2019 at 4:21 PM, Icechipper said: Keep perspective: walk it back and we acquired Nino by moving Cal Clutterbuck who basically runs around (it's a stretch to call his hockey gait skating) trying to hit people..... True that Cal wasn't going to score much. The one thing that was nice was he made the other team have all their heads on swivels and really took players out of their game. It was nice to have a player like that. Also, we have to walk it back more and remember his first two seasons with the Islanders were complete trash. He played a total of 64 games for 2 goals, 1 Assist with a +/- of -30. This was 2010-2011 & 2011-2012. In that same time Cal played a total of 150 games for 34 goals, 27 assists with a +/- of -13. By far Cal was on a better trajectory then Nino. And a bonus was Cal could check anybody into next week and made players with the puck react faster then they wanted to all to avoid being hit by him. I also loved how Cal could get under the skin of other players so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ0226 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 6:29 PM, TropicalFruitGirl26 said: Hmmm....I suppose ANYTHING is a possibility. However, I have some doubts about this. One....by all indications, Nino LIKED playing in Minnesota. At least outwardly, and how he projected himself, he seemed to really embrace the fanbase, the cities, and the team mission to try and win now. He seemed very grateful to be rescued from, what at the time for him was, minor league hell, because the Islanders, run by Garth Snow, couldn't see he was more NHL worthy than some of the slugs they had on the big club at the time. Heck, he even seemed to take on a real leadership role by doing more between period interviews, NOT throwing teammates under the bus, and just overall shouldering much of the team's futility on himself.....which is why I posted many times before that this move could have removed that heavy burden he was carrying, and he could be feeling much more "free", for lack of a better term, in Carolina...but not necessarily that he wanted out. Obviously, only those behind closed doors and Nino know for sure. Maybe you ARE right. But here is my second point: Hockey players, for the most part, are very proud individuals. And given what I know about Nino (again, what he projects outwardly anyways), he just doesn't come across as the type of player that would purposely tank HIMSELF just to get moved. I mean, if he were to go that route, even if he gets his wish, he is basically sullying his OWN reputation.....basically telling other organizations that he is mentally weak and would willingly fold under pressure...and telling potential future linemates, "Hey, guys, you can't really count on me when the going gets tough" Again, I don't know him personally, but that just doesn't seem like Nino....not the same guy who looks like he works real hard at trying to be the best player he can be. If Nino wanted out, it could very well have been a difference of opinion and deployment of his talents with the coaching staff...but again, that doesn't seem likely as no matter where he was played, he just didn't produce regularly. I really don't have an answer, and I am not going to say you are absolutely wrong.....but my instinct is to say that Nino was NOT purposely tanking just to be moved. Just doesn't gel. I think this whole thing reeks of a struggling player, a head coach not in sync with how best to use his players (or struggling player letting the futility overwhelm him, and thus being his OWN worst enemy), and most DEFINITELY complicated by the front office not making the best of moves to help alleviate the situation. This^. The franchise has shown for years now that you either produce by yourself (without outshining the core) and/or contort to fit the needs of a few. The franchise does nothing to help you find success again if you fail with the exception of a select few. We don't develop guys at all. Factor in coaches that appear to have little influence on decisions (Sorry but it really does appear like that. You can't factor out that Bruce has coached other teams with great talent and didn't the problems he has here), along with front office major issues. Sadly the team was made to buy a championship not develop into a championship team. We just don't have the talent or money to do this now. Hopefully in 6 year when the rest of the core they tried to use as such are gone we can develop the correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 5 hours ago, EJ0226 said: This^. The franchise has shown for years now that you either produce by yourself (without outshining the core) and/or contort to fit the needs of a few. The franchise does nothing to help you find success again if you fail with the exception of a select few. We don't develop guys at all. Factor in coaches that appear to have little influence on decisions (Sorry but it really does appear like that. You can't factor out that Bruce has coached other teams with great talent and didn't the problems he has here), along with front office major issues. Sadly the team was made to buy a championship not develop into a championship team. We just don't have the talent or money to do this now. Hopefully in 6 year when the rest of the core they tried to use as such are gone we can develop the correct way. 3 Definitely,the team will be different after 6 years. Good thought, but the further questions are - who will develop it and how to make it the correct way without wasting the talent? For the team is not enough to have decent players which were traded/collected from other teams. Real development should be started from the farm club first. If the baby club full of average players there then the big club will look as an average (+/- decent) too. Like Illazilla said - we need to have a great team to get a Cup, but not just a good one which is not enough and which we have it for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Unless two to three really decent prospects emerge significantly in the next 6 years the current younger blood (who are now about as good as they'll ever get) will remain no more effective than the older veterans we have today and the team will likely be in the same situation they're in today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 9 hours ago, rottenrefs said: Unless two to three really decent prospects emerge significantly in the next 6 years the current younger blood (who are now about as good as they'll ever get) will remain no more effective than the older veterans we have today and the team will likely be in the same situation they're in today. Well, Fenton did tell most of the scouts under Fletcher/Flahr "if you have another job opportunity, take it." But unfortunately, I believe Fletcher extended most of those guys right before he got axed. So it might be a year or two before we see any changes scouting or prospect-wise... One thing I wonder with a lot of this scouting is this: Are the scouts being directed to scout a certain type of player (Find every Mikko Koivu clone you can, boys!), or are they being directed to just scout the ones the Wild will have a shot at drafting (We're probably picking in the 10-20 range, boys, so don't waste your time on Connor McDavid...), or is it "If it skates, scout it!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, IllaZilla said: Well, Fenton did tell most of the scouts under Fletcher/Flahr "if you have another job opportunity, take it." But unfortunately, I believe Fletcher extended most of those guys right before he got axed. So it might be a year or two before we see any changes scouting or prospect-wise... One thing I wonder with a lot of this scouting is this: Are the scouts being directed to scout a certain type of player (Find every Mikko Koivu clone you can, boys!), or are they being directed to just scout the ones the Wild will have a shot at drafting (We're probably picking in the 10-20 range, boys, so don't waste your time on Connor McDavid...), or is it "If it skates, scout it!"? Hard to tell what is directing them. It is always a mystery of scouting combined with a lottery of uncertainty of the talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ0226 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 16 hours ago, Alexandron said: Definitely,the team will be different after 6 years. Good thought, but the further questions are - who will develop it and how to make it the correct way without wasting the talent? For the team is not enough to have decent players which were traded/collected from other teams. Real development should be started from the farm club first. If the baby club full of average players there then the big club will look as an average (+/- decent) too. Like Illazilla said - we need to have a great team to get a Cup, but not just a good one which is not enough and which we have it for years. Honestly, this is why I have been saying we need a full rebuild. Maybe it's time to start thinking this and trade for future draft picks in a few years. As much as I hate to see Spurgeon, Zucker and even Dumba go it might not be the worst idea to trade for good draft picks for the future instead of letting them rot another 6 years to start our rebuild or like others have pointed out, we keep them and are in the exact same spot. It could honestly be a good 10 years before the Wild are on the path of being a team in the hunt. It's going to hurt and suck but maybe we need to rip that band aide off and start fresh. The biggest factor is Leipold. He has no business making any hockey decisions. His hockey IQ is extremely low. He needs to allow the GM to start doing his job. If that means the GM wants to get rid of people and possibly drive out Suter and Parise so be it. I would love for that to happen and Fenton call out Parise and Suters we want to win a Cup talk. Say we are going full rebuild and winning the Cup isn't going to happen for a few years. This would put those two into a spot, either they really are wanting to win a cup and waive their NTC or they are just really about the money and fans can see and stop buying their merchandise. Leipold also has to allow Fenton the ability to fire and hire all his staff. No leftovers unless Fenton feels ok with whoever. How I actually seeing the Wild do this. Leipold continues to interfere with decisions. Fenton is handcuffed with limitations. The Wild make the playoffs as a WC this year. They get two wins in the first round. Leipold gets all excited and says just another minor tweak. Bruce stays another year cause he is curious what a new GM can do. The Wild make a minor tweak again. The team misses the playoffs. Bruce is either fired or quits and retires. Leipold is still convinced we are just a player or two away. In the meantime we still picking later in the draft to miss out on impact players. Repeat and rinse until Parise and Suters contracts finally expire and then they retire at which point Leipold will finally be forced to go a different route. I just don't forsee the Wild getting lucky in drafting a stud. I can't forsee them picking up a elite superstar either as they will have a bunch of guys that they will need to resign and some of them are going to get nice paydays but are to valuable for the Wild to let walk. They won't be thinking rebuild so won't trade these guys either. I will cheer for them still. I love hockey. I just hate how this team is being handled and the decisions they refuse to say them mistakes on and won't move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllaZilla Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 hours ago, EJ0226 said: Honestly, this is why I have been saying we need a full rebuild. Well, before you go all in on the full rebuild, you may want to chat with the guys over on the Flyers board. They offer a very unique perspective on a "full rebuild"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenrefs Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 11 hours ago, IllaZilla said: Well, Fenton did tell most of the scouts under Fletcher/Flahr "if you have another job opportunity, take it." But unfortunately, I believe Fletcher extended most of those guys right before he got axed. So it might be a year or two before we see any changes scouting or prospect-wise... One thing I wonder with a lot of this scouting is this: Are the scouts being directed to scout a certain type of player (Find every Mikko Koivu clone you can, boys!), or are they being directed to just scout the ones the Wild will have a shot at drafting (We're probably picking in the 10-20 range, boys, so don't waste your time on Connor McDavid...), or is it "If it skates, scout it!"? One has to think with their higher draft picks the team leans toward players 'comfortable' with lessor roles and at some point not ever being expected to be a big standout, and their lower draft picks select players who are aching to prove themselves. Your questions though lead me to believe what I've been saying over the years, are to get players who won't outshine Koivu. I know that's not what you were aiming at, but to a high degree Staal is the only player in the past 8 years or so who's for all practical purposes been left alone in his role. But, even at that the team calls Mikko their #1 center even though Staal has it locked down better. With Parise and Suter it's a whole other ballgame because Parise doesn't seem to be the type player who demands who he plays alongside; and with Suter he's been given the #1 d-man role and no one puts pressure on him to take it over. We've already seen Parise slide up and down other lines but Koivu & Suter are locked in and no one can budge them. Management has made sure of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confrontational Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I see Vegas plays Nino tonight - will have to keep an eye out for him and see how he does... I really liked Nino initially - then like Coyle and so many others, he just started to become more and more invisible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyShelf Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 No surprise. Nino scores again in a win. 17minutes, 5 shots and +3. That’s 5 goals in 5 games for anyone keeping score. Rask....not a damn thing. Now we have three more years of the Rask contact at $4MM per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starofthenorth Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, EmptyShelf said: No surprise. Nino scores again in a win. 17minutes, 5 shots and +3. That’s 5 goals in 5 games for anyone keeping score. Rask....not a damn thing. Now we have three more years of the Rask contact at $4MM per Can't they put Rask on waivers he is just awful? How did he ever earn that contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Cam Barker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyShelf Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Bear said: Cam Barker There is a ‘nails on the chalkboard’ trade. Just terrible. Leddy can look good/bad a few games apart, but Barker?!? What the he77 did he provide? Keeping Leddy may have changed our need to make other moves or draft choices that could have worked to the Wilds favor. Barker?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 2 hours ago, EmptyShelf said: There is a ‘nails on the chalkboard’ trade. Just terrible. Leddy can look good/bad a few games apart, but Barker?!? What the he77 did he provide? Keeping Leddy may have changed our need to make other moves or draft choices that could have worked to the Wilds favor. Barker?!? what did he provide? nothing same as Rask is going to provide. I say 2 goals 10 helpers secondary only because Zack is on his line spread the hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandron Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 16 hours ago, EmptyShelf said: No surprise. Nino scores again in a win. 17minutes, 5 shots and +3. That’s 5 goals in 5 games for anyone keeping score. Rask....not a damn thing. Now we have three more years of the Rask contact at $4MM per Hurricanes have a real chance to get into playoffs this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyShelf Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I would trade the Wild tea, for Canes straight up (coaches and GM too). A much brighter present and future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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