Hartman Traded

[Hockey-78]

5 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I REALLY hope not.  We got Hayes.  We don’t need Nylander and I do NOT want that salary for the next ten years.  NO PLEASE

I'm not a fan of Nylander either but you do realize he's 4 years younger, has better PPG ratio, but you pay Hayes MORE per year for a year LONGER.

You might end up thanking Fletch if he manages to trade Hayes for Nylander straight up.

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Maybe this is precursor to something bigger because of the cap savings, as has been pointed out. 

 

But the players involved are who cares for who cares.  I mean why is anyone here bent on Hartman? The problem was getting Hartman for Simmonds in the first place.  I hated that trade at the time. Hartman is nothing. He is a disappointment of a ridiculous first round draft pick. He is actually barely one dimensional. At least now we have someone who still belongs on the fourth line but can at least play on the PK. 

 

He's meh, but you get meh for meh. 

 

But stop with Simmonds. It's embarrassing and ridiculous. He's a fourth line player at best at this point. I love the guy and wish him the best, but he's not worth a roster spot at any price at this point. 

 

Hartman’s just more versatile otherwise, Dallas wouldn’t have traded for him. 

 

As far as Simmonds goes, I hope he finds someone to give him money and he opts 25 goals on their power play.  I thought Arizona might be a good idea.  If he’d sign for 3rd-4th line dollars, I wouldn’t hate it, but as much as everyone talks about him being a great leader and locker room presence, even if that’s the case, it absolutely hasn’t been remotely good enough.  They need better locker room guys than they’ve had.  I think he could bounce back to some portion of as good as his good years,  but it’s a shame for him he spent his “good years” oh a crappy Philly team doomed to 5 years of purgatory. 

[OccamsRazor]

27 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

 

I REALLY hope not.  We got Hayes.  We don’t need Nylander and I do NOT want that salary for the next ten years.  NO PLEASE

 

Nah that ain't happening that is something you do before you sign Hayes.

[King Knut]

14 minutes ago, Hockey-78 said:

I'm not a fan of Nylander either but you do realize he's 4 years younger, has better PPG ratio, but you pay Hayes MORE per year for a year LONGER.

You might end up thanking Fletch if he manages to trade Hayes for Nylander straight up.

 

I like Hayes but HATE his deal.  

Luckily Nylander has no NMC because Hayes does, so he ain’t getting traded for straight up anyone.  

 

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Nah that ain't happening that is something you do before you sign Hayes.

 

Besides, we don't have a 2nd round pick to send them to "sweeten the pot." Or do we? I can never remember, I just assume we have no 2nd rounders. Who ever came out of the 2nd round to be a good NHLer? Nobody. Ever. 

[Howie58]

I hope we have a competent, penalty killing-energy fourth line. Hartmann has more upside offensively but at this juncture, my expectations are somewhat limited for the team unless/until our picks pan out...if they pan out.  

 

We still don't have a sniper.  Maybe the D is better.  The draft seems to have gone well.  Otherwise, I see a marginal playoff squad, at best.

 

 

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, ruxpin said:

LMAO. Exactly. 

 

Not in a terrific mood and that made me laugh. Thanks for that. 

 

For me it wasn’t that shift that time, it was his mom buying the Flyers section beers in Chicago. 

[King Knut]

14 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well that's the rub I think the Flyers need a RW for the 3rd line.

 

But I guess they could still be looking for one.

 

Raffl Laughton Pitlick could be a solid 4th i guess.

 

Unless they’re trading Ghost for RFAs Johnson or Kapanen,  it seems as though they’re filling that with a low grade UFA and hoping a kid will steal the job. 

[Podein25]

28 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

We still don't have a sniper. 

 

That's true, but I see a future stat line that I like: Brink from Frost and Sanheim

[AJgoal]

42 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I like Hayes but HATE his deal.  

Luckily Nylander has no NMC because Hayes does, so he ain’t getting traded for straight up anyone.  

 

 

I'm holding out hope that they find a way to trade Hayes before July 1 when that kicks in.

[OccamsRazor]

39 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Unless they’re trading Ghost for RFAs Johnson or Kapanen,  it seems as though they’re filling that with a low grade UFA and hoping a kid will steal the job. 

 

I thought I read where they had already signed those two and were waiting to make it official.

 

I guess they could always sign and trade them.

[King Knut]

46 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I hope we have a competent, penalty killing-energy fourth line. Hartmann has more upside offensively but at this juncture, my expectations are somewhat limited for the team unless/until our picks pan out...if they pan out.  

 

We still don't have a sniper.  Maybe the D is better.  The draft seems to have gone well.  Otherwise, I see a marginal playoff squad, at best.

 

 

 

Most teams in the league still need a sniper.

For perspective:  Coots scored as many goals as Tarasenko (goals leader) and Giroux put up 10 more points than O'Reilly (points leader), but the Blues and their fans are too busy singing "Gloria" to give a rip.  

[AJgoal]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I thought I read where they had already signed those two and were waiting to make it official.

 

I guess they could always sign and trade them.

 

They've "agreed to terms," but word was they were waiting to figure out Marner to actually sign anything. 

 

To which I say, "Hey NHL GMs, you know how much the Leafs are willing to pay, and it's under the 2nd round pick threshold."

 

But it's too much of a good old boys club to do something that benefits your team like that.

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I thought I read where they had already signed those two and were waiting to make it official.

 

I guess they could always sign and trade them.

 

Could be.  I just read that their GM was open about the Marleau trade making it possible.  Strange that they would prioritize the two of them over Marner.  They're still at least $13million shy of having room for a BEST case scenario for signing all three... and that's doing nothing to address their defense which absolutely needs something. 

 

After opening day, they'll he able to put Horton on LTIR, so I could see someone getting signed on day 2. 

Even so, they are far from being able to sneak a guy through waivers to get them under the cap for 24 hours the way Homer and Hextall used to do during the Pronger years.   

 

Even if they waited until day 2 to announce Marner, he's going to get double Horton's salary, so they'd still need to move at least 5 million off their books to keep all three.  The Marleau trade was a blessing from Carolina, but there's still going to be some big moves coming out of Toronto and I'm just talking Hypothetically, not specifically with the Flyers.

 

I don't know what they'd be willing to trade that we'd want other than Nylander, but Hagg and Morin might be just the right sized cap hit for them to have a somewhat professional D Corps going into the season.  I'd hate to lose Morin for a favor and I just don't know that Nylander fits any bills for the Flyers at this point.  Kappanen or  Johnson are kind of perfect for what the Flyers need right now though.  Technically, Marner is perfect, but there's no way in hell they're letting him go.  

 

[King Knut]

12 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

 

They've "agreed to terms," but word was they were waiting to figure out Marner to actually sign anything. 

 

To which I say, "Hey NHL GMs, you know how much the Leafs are willing to pay, and it's under the 2nd round pick threshold."

 

But it's too much of a good old boys club to do something that benefits your team like that.

 

 

You mean an offer sheet?  

Flyers can't afford to offer sheet Marner and he's maybe the only one worth it.

After Hayes and these two D-men, the Flyers can't afford Nylander, Johnsson or Kapanen without moving something in return... at least not and still resign Provo, Laughton and TK.  Which is to say nothing of the backup goalie.  

 

Long story short, any move the Flyers make now will involve a trade or the signing of a lame, boring warm body 3RW.  

 

[AJgoal]

1 minute ago, King Knut said:

 

 

You mean an offer sheet?  

Flyers can't afford to offer sheet Marner and he's maybe the only one worth it.

After Hayes and these two D-men, the Flyers can't afford Nylander, Johnsson or Kapanen without moving something in return... at least not and still resign Provo, Laughton and TK.  Which is to say nothing of the backup goalie.  

 

Long story short, any move the Flyers make now will involve a trade or the signing of a lame, boring warm body 3RW.  

 

 

I'm talking about ANY GM.

 

And I've been harping on the rest since Niskanen.

[Hockey-78]

1 hour ago, King Knut said:

 

I like Hayes but HATE his deal.  

Luckily Nylander has no NMC because Hayes does, so he ain’t getting traded for straight up anyone.  

 

Yeah, didn't read the thread from beginning... Good, you're a smart guy.

 

NMC too? Gheesh but Fletch was happy to hand out those in the Wild too so nothing has changed...

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, AJgoal said:

 

I'm talking about ANY GM.

 

And I've been harping on the rest since Niskanen.

 

I hate the offer sheet concept, but I think it's one that should probably be evoked more often for the health and safety of the league overall.  

 

Ever since the cap era, the league's been really touchy about offer sheets.  Remember when Yzerman freaked out on Homer threatening to offer sheet Giroux at just the rumors of Homer thinking about offer sheeting Stamkos?   No one freaked out when Clarke offer sheeted Gratton except for the Blackhawks who unwittingly traded for his rights the next day (and perhaps flyers fans who didn't know what the hell was happening).  But there was no uproar about how awful it was Clarke had done this, just that Tampa had traded him to the Hawks after Clarke did it.  

 

There was some consternation when Clarke offer sheeted Kesler, but that was for next to nothing and it certainly didn't force the canucks into a Weber type situation...  And in the end, Poille probably should have just taken our draft picks and let us be stuck with Weber all these years for all he ended up being worth to them. 

 

Long story short though, I agree that offer sheeting should be more prevalent.  It should really be used as a deterrent for teams like the Penguins Devils and the Maple Leafs and the Oilers deciding to tank to stock up high picks.  If a team can openly offer sheet Hall or Nico without fear of retribution, the Devils might be inclined to try to build a team by more legitimate or sporting means.  

 

Maybe they can make a rule that if your roster has a certain number of RFA eligible players (aka non-vets) you can only RFA protect X amount of them.  

 

So Fletcher can protect Provo, TK and Laughton from offer sheets, but Hagg is fair game and he can shut the hell up about it when the league takes it's crack at him.  

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, Hockey-78 said:

Yeah, didn't read the thread from beginning... Good, you're a smart guy.

 

NMC too? Gheesh but Fletch was happy to hand out those in the Wild too so nothing has changed...

 

Poeple are arguing that the Hayes deal is a good thing...  and man if the Flyers win two cups in the next three years, super.  Otherwise, this deal is going to be a dead albatross for a long long time.  

[phlfly]

17 hours ago, hf101 said:

 

 

yeah,  born in Virginia, Minnesota.   20 min from my home town.    He also attended UMD.

 

 

Its lot nowhere Wow I didn't know.

Edited June 25, 2019 by phlfly

[flyercanuck]

So Hartmann wasn't re-signed by Dallas....so he was dealt by Philly and then released...and apparently he doesn't know either happened yet.

Edited June 25, 2019 by flyercanuck

[flyercanuck]

[King Knut]

29 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

So Hartmann wasn't re-signed by Dallas....so he was dealt by Philly and then released...and apparently he doesn't know either happened yet.

 

27 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Doesn’t anyone else find this bizarre? 

 

[ruxpin]

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

Hartman’s just more versatile otherwise, Dallas wouldn’t have traded for him. 

 

As far as Simmonds goes, I hope he finds someone to give him money and he opts 25 goals on their power play.  I thought Arizona might be a good idea.  If he’d sign for 3rd-4th line dollars, I wouldn’t hate it, but as much as everyone talks about him being a great leader and locker room presence, even if that’s the case, it absolutely hasn’t been remotely good enough.  They need better locker room guys than they’ve had.  I think he could bounce back to some portion of as good as his good years,  but it’s a shame for him he spent his “good years” oh a crappy Philly team doomed to 5 years of purgatory. 

Agree with everything about Simmonds. I really hope I'm wrong about him. Especially given what you said about his Flyers tenure and contract. 

 

I don't think Hartman is any more versatile than Pitlick. Maybe just in different ways. You may be right about why Dallas traded for him. My guess is because he's younger and also because they want the different ways. 

 

He's one of those players I simply don't like. For me, there's a reason Chicago so quickly gave up on their first round draft pick (though they got one back) and Nashville gave up a player they traded a first rounder for so quickly and for a rental whose best days are most likely behind him. And now the Flyers trade the same player for a (being kind) unspecial player who is older and easily disposable. 

 

Do you think he has work ethic issues? 

 

I keep telling myself I wouldn't be so hard on him if he was drafted in the 3rd round. I mean, call bottom six a success at that point. It's not HIS fault he was drafted way too high, right? 

 

So there's that. But then I keep going back to the thought that three different teams gave up really quickly, each time for lesser return. At this point, Dallas will trade him for one used skate. 

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Agree with everything about Simmonds. I really hope I'm wrong about him. Especially given what you said about his Flyers tenure and contract. 

 

I don't think Hartman is any more versatile than Pitlick. Maybe just in different ways. You may be right about why Dallas traded for him. My guess is because he's younger and also because they want the different ways. 

 

He's one of those players I simply don't like. For me, there's a reason Chicago so quickly gave up on their first round draft pick (though they got one back) and Nashville gave up a player they traded a first rounder for so quickly and for a rental whose best days are most likely behind him. And now the Flyers trade the same player for a (being kind) unspecial player who is older and easily disposable. 

 

Do you think he has work ethic issues? 

 

I keep telling myself I wouldn't be so hard on him if he was drafted in the 3rd round. I mean, call bottom six a success at that point. It's not HIS fault he was drafted way too high, right? 

 

So there's that. But then I keep going back to the thought that three different teams gave up really quickly, each time for lesser return. At this point, Dallas will trade him for one used skate. 

 

Dallas waived him apparently.  Why would you trade a guy just to waive what you get back.  I guess they lose a roster spot without taking a cap hit this way?  That’s all I got.