Game 18: Flyers vs Capitals 11/13/19 7:30 pm

[Howie58]

Wait large, we saw a game that exposed our bottom 6's scoring weakness. We played well. Hart was great. Nut we need depth scoring, particularly against an elite team. The bottom size are bottling up the opponents. But it would be nice to see them score.

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The best thing that can happen is for the young guys on the blueline to play and get better....only way to do that is play and get coached up.

 

So it's a on going process a lot to get better at for sure but to get points now in 7 straight games.

 

8-2-2 since October 21st. That is progress they can be proud of Hart and worked his save percentage to 904 now.

 

Goals against is down to 2.53 and that only comes from continuing to grind and work on their play.

 

I still think the 3rd line needs to be reworked it just hasn't been very effective.

 

The rest of the lines did pretty well and they reduced Andreoff's minutes a lot last night he only skated around 5 minutes.

 

Unless he got hurt which i didn't hear or see. Any word on him. Figures @CoachX talks him up and even dedicates a thread to him and jinxes him.....damn him!!!!!!

Someone should report me 

[CoachX]

My overall impression of last night was that the Flyers looked a little shell shocked to start. That makes sense playing a team of this caliber. I can understand a lack of confidence.

 

However, I think once they realized they could skate with them, things changed. Im loving the transition game and I saw Flyer players beating caps to the puck in the offensive zone. The way they held the puck on that delayed penalty was pretty cool.

 

Getting a point and losing in a SO against this team is the same as a win in my mind. Believing and having confidence in the system will be a difference maker. Way to go AV

 

TRUST....THE....PROCESS

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Wilson can no longer be called a goon ,

yes he can. 

He's like a less disciplined and far less skilled version of Chris Kunitz. 

Not a fan and have never been impressed with his "game".

 

And to your other premise, there will be bad match-ups in a playoff series regardless.  The coaches have to minimize those.

An ideal situation would be for Ghost to play offense when Wilson's line is on the ice; or since Wilson skates with Ovechkin, for Provorov and Niskanen to be out vs his line. The game is fluid and sometimes the other coach wins the match-up game.  

The Flyers are not a small team so I buy in less and less to the physicality talk. 

I haven't seen them get run over by anyone since the Pens game.

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

My take away from last night is the Flyers played pretty well against a team with a lot of veteran players that will contend for the finals in the East.

Right now the Caps are the chalk, we'll see how they do throughout the year, they're firing on all cylinders right now. I don't know if their ceiling is higher than what they're showing. They are formidable, a confident group with skating, skill and size.

 

I think the Flyers will continue to improve, and I don't know what their ceiling is realistically. 

I am comfortable saying I think our guys aren't done improving though. So if early in the first year with a new coach and a bunch of 22 year olds our guys had opportunities to beat that team, I'll say I like what I'm seeing. 

 

Can't win them all. That was good effort, that could have gone the Flyers way with a bounce.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by mojo1917

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

We came back strong in the second part of the game and could have won it, nice job. One thing that concerns me is ,if we face a team like Washington or Boston in the playoffs, I don’t think we are physical enough to win a 7 game series. There was a particular play last night where Ghost was manhandled  behind the net by Wilson . Washington has some big skilled guys Oshie ,Ovechkin and Wilson can no longer be called a goon , he can play. Twaryinski , Anrdreoff. and Raffl have some size and grit but they are 4th liners. 

 

Our d-corps can push their weight around though. Provo, Niskanen, Myers, and Braun are not at all afraid to do their own amount of manhandling on a regular basis. That's all without talking about Hagg, cause no one really wants to talk about Hagg.

 

Our top six isn't really the big physical type, but we do have it lower in the line up and as I mentioned on the back end. I would put us on par with Boston personally. They also don't have a bunch of rugged physical forwards, but they do have a number of physical dmen (as well as others who are really not, much like us).

 

Now, could we win a seven game series against the likes of Washington? That I don't know. Prior to last night's game, I probably would have said a pretty hard no to that. Now I do think they'd have a fighting chance at least.

 

It's worth noting that Holtby also had a very good game last night. Without him, we could easily be talking about a win today.

Edited November 14, 2019 by elmatus

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

yes he can. 

He's like a less disciplined and far less skilled version of Chris Kunitz. 

Not a fan and have never been impressed with his "game".

 

And to your other premise, there will be bad match-ups in a playoff series regardless.  The coaches have to minimize those.

An ideal situation would be for Ghost to play offense when Wilson's line is on the ice; or since Wilson skates with Ovechkin, for Provorov and Niskanen to be out vs his line. The game is fluid and sometimes the other coach wins the match-up game.  

The Flyers are not a small team so I buy in less and less to the physicality talk. 

I haven't seen them get run over by anyone since the Pens game.

 

 

Wilson's a throwback to the worst kind of hockey player.  

 

He's cheap and chippy and chirps to the refs about stuff you're doing to him that's 1/10 the degree of what he's doing to you. He acts.  He flops.  He hits to injure.  And he can occasionally make a play to tick you off even worse.

 

He's a very easy player to hate.

 

 

[Podein25]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Our top six isn't really the big physical type

 

This is part of the problem. We need guys like JVR and Jake to actually use their big bodies more effectively. Not hitting necessarily, but "playing big" or "being big," especially in the neutral zone.

 

Instead of turning away, stand your ground and be big when the puck is 50-50. There was ton of that last night in the neutral zone, bouncing pucks, pucks in bodies, which there is more and more of because of the way the game has changed, with more high flip passes and such. 

 

In short, they all just need to play more like Coots. Don't we all.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

It's worth noting that Holtby also had a very good game last night. Without him, we could easily be talking about a win today.

 

Holtby was extremely good last night.  

 

If the Capitals didn't have Holtby, I'd have no problems believing the Flyers could win a 7 game series with the caps.

 

Still, I'll be curious to see how the next game between these two teams goes.  The Flyers really seemed to crack to code in the 2nd and Holtby was the only thing keeping the Caps in the game by mid-third.

 

That said, the Flyers did seem to tire out (probably due to their short bench for most of the game) in the waning minutes.  Those huge saves Carter had to make were due to the FLyers looking decidedly more tired than the Caps.

 

With a healthy Laughton and a Farabee experienced enough to be trusted a little more out there against a team like this, that level of fatigue should become less of an issue... I'd hope. 

 

I hope the coaches have a nice encouraging session with them that includes  trying to explain to Hayes that he's not a fancy skating stick handling finesse wonder.  Defense and play driving.  Setting up the guys who can do that.  That's your job Kev,  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

2 hours ago, Howie58 said:

Wait large, we saw a game that exposed our bottom 6's scoring weakness. We played well. Hart was great. Nut we need depth scoring, particularly against an elite team. The bottom size are bottling up the opponents. But it would be nice to see them score.

 

The 4th line didn't really play in this game.  And I think that had more to do with their size and defense than lack of scoring ability.  

 

The third line isn't going to score much in it's current form.  Jake and Hayes are too similar and they each need a more skilled line mate than each other or twarynski.  Putting a Giroux or a TK or a Farabee with them might help them out, but then what's that going to do to the line you take that guy away from.

 

Its games like this that have Fletcher not wanting Frost up yet and I get that.  But I still think he's the best hope of evening out the finesse and skill level on all three lines.  

 

Farabee  Hayes  Gee . (The Heebee Gee Bees)

Lindy . Coots . Teeks 

JVR . Frosty .  Jake . 

Raffl  Laughton . Andy / Pitlick

 

If you run into a game like last night and you have to shorten the bench, you know Laughton can come up to 3C and Raffl can come up to 1W.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well this group isn't going to get physical overnight they are who they are right now they will need some kind of trade to make that happen.

 

Not sure who they can get to add that missing element.

I agree, eventually we need a couple of scrappy wingers who can play on the top 2 lines and do some scoring.  We need a 6ft 3 , 215lb Konecny. Or a Hartnell with skating ability . Maybe Allison and Ratcliffe in a couple of years.Also a rugged defenseman who can play defense.  One thing I look forward to is a first line of Frost, Farabee and Konecny. Would probably be our best line since the Legion of Doom.

[King Knut]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well this group isn't going to get physical overnight they are who they are right now they will need some kind of trade to make that happen.

 

Not sure who they can get to add that missing element.

 

I'm not sure they need to be more physical.  

[RonJeremy]

3 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

yes he can. 

He's like a less disciplined and far less skilled version of Chris Kunitz. 

Not a fan and have never been impressed with his "game".

 

And to your other premise, there will be bad match-ups in a playoff series regardless.  The coaches have to minimize those.

An ideal situation would be for Ghost to play offense when Wilson's line is on the ice; or since Wilson skates with Ovechkin, for Provorov and Niskanen to be out vs his line. The game is fluid and sometimes the other coach wins the match-up game.  

The Flyers are not a small team so I buy in less and less to the physicality talk. 

I haven't seen them get run over by anyone since the Pens game.

 

 

 

 

The Islanders out hit us big time. Sure there will always be bad matchups but if you have a more balanced team then you have a better shot sat winning against any type of matchup. Our most physical and biggest guys are not on the top 2 lines. In the past we had too many big slow guys and not enough speed and skill. Now we have gone the other way, we have improved our skill and speed  with smaller players, but we are lacking in big skilled physical  players.Your right we don’t have a small team JVR,  Voracek, Hayes and  Patrick have  size and skill but other than Hayes none of these guys are physical. Raffl and Tarwynski have some nice size and battle hard but they are not playing big minutes. 

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

 

Wilson's a throwback to the worst kind of hockey player.  

 

He's cheap and chippy and chirps to the refs about stuff you're doing to him that's 1/10 the degree of what he's doing to you. He acts.  He flops.  He hits to injure.  And he can occasionally make a play to tick you off even worse.

 

He's a very easy player to hate.

 

 

I’m old school I love that .  You need an agitator to get the other team off their game .The Flyers don’t have anyone that the other teams hate or the other fans hate . In the past we were the most hated. If the other teams hate you, then your doing something right. Wilson has 40 points  last year, he has 8g and 8a this year , that’s not a goon, that’s old time hockey.

Edited November 14, 2019 by RonJeremy

[RonJeremy]

2 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

This is part of the problem. We need guys like JVR and Jake to actually use their big bodies more effectively. Not hitting necessarily, but "playing big" or "being big," especially in the neutral zone.

 

Instead of turning away, stand your ground and be big when the puck is 50-50. There was ton of that last night in the neutral zone, bouncing pucks, pucks in bodies, which there is more and more of because of the way the game has changed, with more high flip passes and such. 

 

In short, they all just need to play more like Coots. Don't we all.

JVR and  and Voracek are too passive , the bottom line is they are nice guys.  It’s not in their nature. We need some mean guys like one of the Tkachuk brothers.

[King Knut]

6 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well this group isn't going to get physical overnight they are who they are right now they will need some kind of trade to make that happen.

 

Not sure who they can get to add that missing element.

 

sorry, hit submit too soon.

 

I'm not so worried about the size aspect of physical.  I don't really think that was a problem for anyone other than Farabee for long.  I noticed the defense was extremely good at using their sticks and shutting down lanes.  

 

The thing that worries me more about a 7 game series with a team like that is the Flyers 4th line and the PP.  

 

The Caps got about 2 more minutes and a goal from their 4th line than the Flyers did.  Our top 6 outplayed their top six.  That was the difference in a very very tight game.  Over the course of a 7 games series, those extra shifts are going to really start to wear down your top 9.  If a couple of games go to OT... it's gonna happen faster. 

 

The PP has to get better.  They're wasting opportunity after opportunity.  I don't know what's wrong and I don't care anymore.  They're better than this. Figure it out.  if their power play was a mere 20%, a half these games never would have gone to OT. 

 

To fix the 4th line, they really don't have anyone in the system.  we know this because they keep trying.  Andreoff has potential and actually did pretty well last night (though in less than 6 minutes of work).  So to add they can  a) trade for 4th liners from outside.  b) add top 9 guys and drop better players who belong there (like Raffl and Laughton) to the 4th. 

 

I'm not ready to trade yet. The 4th line is Raffl, Laughton & Pitlick / Andreoff.   I think if you can roll those guys as your 4th line, then you're going to be able to play them 9+ minutes a night which means keeping your top 9 more fresh and competitive throughout the evening and that will matter over a playoff series.  

 

I think these things get sorted out as the season goes.  It's very possible Washington is just going to be a monster all year, or it's possible they're just peeking now.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[King Knut]

16 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I’m old school I love that .  You need an agitator to get the other team off their game .The Flyers don’t have anyone that the other teams hate or the other fans hate . In the past we were the most hated. If the other teams hate you, then your doing something right. Wilson has 40 points  last year, he has 8g and 8a this year , that’s not a goon, that’s old time hockey.

 

It's BS hockey.  I hate it.  

 

I don't mind agitating.  I don't mind chirping at your opponent and I don't mind annoying them with hard hits or subtle hooks every once in a while.  I don't mind trying to get them off their game or take a bad penalty. 

 

I effing hate massaging the refs and whining like a little brat trying to coax out calls against your opponent for crap you're actually guilty of.  

 

That part of old time hockey can stay in the past as far as I'm concerned.  I don't actually even hate guys like Wislon for it (though I wish someone would pop them) I hate the refs for being thick skulled enough to fall for it.  

 

The Flyers CAN'T have that guy anymore because it straight up bites us in the rear.  They've tried over the years (Carcillo and that lunatic Steve Downie come to mind) but it never works because they  just end up causting more penalty kills because the refs DO NOT put up with that BS from the Flyers anymore.

 

And it isn't really Old Time Hockey.  In old time Hockey that guy would have his teeth bashed in and think twice about opening his mouth or sneaking in a slash the next time. 

[RonJeremy]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

sorry, hit submit too soon.

 

I'm not so worried about the size aspect of physical.  I don't really think that was a problem for anyone other than Farabee for long.  I noticed the defense was extremely good at using their sticks and shutting down lanes.  

 

The thing that worries me more about a 7 game series with a team like that is the Flyers 4th line and the PP.  

 

The Caps got about 2 more minutes and a goal from their 4th line than the Flyers did.  Our top 6 outplayed their top six.  That was the difference in a very very tight game.  Over the course of a 7 games series, those extra shifts are going to really start to wear down your top 9.  If a couple of games go to OT... it's gonna happen faster. 

 

The PP has to get better.  They're wasting opportunity after opportunity.  I don't know what's wrong and I don't care anymore.  They're better than this. Figure it out.  if their power play was a mere 20%, a half these games never would have gone to OT. 

 

To fix the 4th line, they really don't have anyone in the system.  we know this because they keep trying.  Andreoff has potential and actually did pretty well last night (though in less than 6 minutes of work).  So to add they can  a) trade for 4th liners from outside.  b) add top 9 guys and drop better players who belong there (like Raffl and Laughton) to the 4th. 

 

I'm not ready to trade yet. The 4th line is Raffl, Laughton & Pitlick / Andreoff.   I think if you can roll those guys as your 4th line, then you're going to be able to play them 9+ minutes a night which means keeping your top 9 more fresh and competitive throughout the evening and that will matter over a playoff series.  

 

I think these things get sorted out as the season goes.  It's very possible Washington is just going to be a monster all year, or it's possible they're just peeking now.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what ,we are on the right track, the young guys are contributing and playing well, and will just get better Our special teams are vastly improved, goaltending is solid and we actually have a good coach. No more 10 game losing streaks for this team. Hopefully Patrick can return and be the player he was hyped to be ,or if not, Frost might make the team later in the season and if our skilled big wingers like Allison and Ratcliffe pan out, then that’s an added element to this team. I’m sure down the road as we become contenders there will be some sort of trades to shore up the weak areas. So far we improved dramatically in areas that have been total crap for years, goaltending and special teams, that alone is worth 20 points in the standings . So glad I don’t have to look at that moron Hakstol any more., 

 

[RonJeremy]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

It's BS hockey.  I hate it.  

 

I don't mind agitating.  I don't mind chirping at your opponent and I don't mind annoying them with hard hits or subtle hooks every once in a while.  I don't mind trying to get them off their game or take a bad penalty. 

 

I effing hate massaging the refs and whining like a little brat trying to coax out calls against your opponent for crap you're actually guilty of.  

 

That part of old time hockey can stay in the past as far as I'm concerned.  I don't actually even hate guys like Wislon for it (though I wish someone would pop them) I hate the refs for being thick skulled enough to fall for it.  

 

The Flyers CAN'T have that guy anymore because it straight up bites us in the rear.  They've tried over the years (Carcillo and that lunatic Steve Downie come to mind) but it never works because they  just end up causting more penalty kills because the refs DO NOT put up with that BS from the Flyers anymore.

 

And it isn't really Old Time Hockey.  In old time Hockey that guy would have his teeth bashed in and think twice about opening his mouth or sneaking in a slash the next time. 

Im not talking about the whining and playing the refs I’m talking about the intimidation ,hammering the other team, hard nosed  semi clean hockey.  I don’t want another Carcillo or Downie, I’m talking about having guys with a blend of size,skating,toughness and a little old time hockey mentality. Guys like Getzlaf or Perry in their prime or like the Tkachuk brothers of today. If there is a chance to draft a player like that in the next couple of years , I think the Flyers should trade some assets and move up in the draft to get a player like that. Or trade for a guy like that if  available.

[OccamsRazor]

39 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I'm not sure they need to be more physical.  

 

They don't have to try and blow guys up with a highlight hit or anything but they certainly need to get better at leaning on guys and separating guys from the puck.

[Podein25]

49 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

JVR and  and Voracek are too passive , the bottom line is they are nice guys.  It’s not in their nature. We need some mean guys like one of the Tkachuk brothers.

 

I think this is true. And you're not gonna change a tiger's spots and all that. But that's my point: I just want them to occupy a space better with their big bodies, stop vacating the space, stop giving it away. I don't think that's too much to ask. 

 

But it might be.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Podein25

[jammer2]

3 hours ago, Podein25 said:

 

I think this is true. And you're not gonna change a tiger's spots and all that. But that's my point: I just want them to occupy a space better with their big bodies, stop vacating the space, stop giving it away. I don't think that's too much to ask. 

 

But it might be.

 

Like Hayes does. He shields the puck with that big frame like a madman. Opens up cycles and offensive chances by doing so. Asking big bodies to shield the puck to allow teammates to get in position is not a big ask!

[ruxpin]

8 hours ago, elmatus said:

It's worth noting that Holtby also had a very good game last night. Without him, we could easily be talking about a win today

 

I agree.   I was going to say similar, but I guess the other honest truth is that it also could have been very different if Hart hadn't had a great game.

 

I was going to comment about the several posts we hit.  But the Caps got their share as well.   

 

All in all, we played the best team in the league pretty evenly.   I'm going to login under my other account and say something along the lines of "something not a win is a win.  That's what we've become."    But I think this game was a great measuring stick of where the Flyers are and they acquitted themselves well.   We lost a shootout.   

 

As an aside, maybe we'd be even better on the shootouts if we'd quit wasting an attempt with a fricken passer (Jake).  There simply isn't a lot of passing to do on the shootout, and there surely isn't 4 players to try to skate through, so Jake has absolutely no idea what to do on a shootout.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 We lost a shootout.

 

The outcome might have been different if Goal Farabee would've had a chance...

 

 

...we'll never know...

 

6 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

As an aside, maybe we'd be even better on the shootouts if we'd quit wasting an attempt with a fricken passer (Jake).

 

The only passing he needs to be doing is passing the salt so they can salt the popcorn he just freshly made.

 

And yes he DID finally make a play on the tying goal...but he also was very uninterested in doing his backchecking duties on the first goal.

 

So he really needs to be sat to maybe think about his play.

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

The outcome might have been different if Goal Farabee would've had a chance...

 

Yeah, seriously.

Then Lindblom, Konecny, Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, JVR, Hayes.   Not necessarily in that order, but all of them before Jake.

Hell, I might send Elliott before Jake and Hart before Jake when Elliott is in net.

 

Honestly, the Hayes thing is largely to try to get him going.  Ghost too, probably.   And maybe that's why they keep sending Jake, but how many times are you going to stick a bucket down a dry well?