King Knut Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Theyre obciously still putting things together, but they're obviously not a strong team yet. They're very dominatable. They look very different from last year. I know there's a lot of youth and new guys and we're still missing a few vets, but this team just isn't strong yet nor are they playing the Hakstol brand of last year. Theyre just being outmatched in these losses. Do Gudas and MDZ help? does sitting manning and... I don't know, Macdonald? Help? weise being suspended hurt last night I think. But it goes deeper. Is Hak trying to make room for the ghosts, Konex, & Provos of the team? Is that why they're so defensively loose? tonights lineup should look pretty similar. Wonder what we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGreatGazoo Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I didn't think they were outmatched last night. I thought it was pretty good effort. They need to figure out their 5v5 play--Still not getting consistent offense. Giroux's line isn't clicking yet, so for now, they are still a one line team. That should change eventually. This team has yet to play with it's predicted roster, due to injuires/suspensions. Schenn is still in training camp mode for whatever reason. Based on what I've seen out of Streit and MacDonald, adding MDZ and Gudas makes this team measurably better. Streit has been the worst Dman on the ice many nights. He got really, really old over the summer. He looks WAY worse than last year, even though he was coming off a nasty injury then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilsFanDrew Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 The season is still so young that it is still nearly impossible to get an objective read on what this team will be this year. Even more difficult because of the early suspensions/injuries. Another issue is that this team in recent years has gotten off to slow starts. The good news is their next three games are at home, 2 of which are against sub par teams. There are some good signs in the early going so not all is bad. Voracek has gotten off to a strong start and has over a PPG average. While he hasn't scored a goal yet Giroux has provided some assists and is just over a PPG. Simmonds is looking on pace for another 30+ goal season. Coots looks to be taking another step in offensive development and Matt Read is playing like the Matt Read of 3 years ago. I think the defense has been the weak link so far but that should have been expected missing two regulars and a 19 year old rookie averaging the most ice time in a couple games. Hakstol has also taken the training wheels off of Ghost so this year so I'm curious to see his production and how that plays out compared to last year. The goalies have been okay. Not spectacular but not a disaster either. Maybe slightly better than average. Grades so far.... Forwards: A- Defense: D Goalies: B- Special Teams: B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I think they played hard last night but were a bit outmatched, and well, Carey Price. Not sure it gets better w/ Gudas and MDZ but I would hope it does... McDud has to go - he is flat out terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, murraycraven said: McDud has to go From your mouth to Hexy's ears......although he is not the worst plus/minus d-man, he is still the worst d-man on this team. I am surprised at Streit's poor play also. It is entirely possible that his age has caught up with him. His positioning on the ice thus far has been horrendous much to the chagrin of Provorov. As far as Gudas and MDZ returning, those are the 2 guys (MacDud and Streit) who SHOULD be sitting in the box eating popcorn with Bob Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Frankly I'd sit Streit before MacDonald. Last night he must've turned the puck over 12 times just in the 3rd. McD has let too many pucks bounce over his stick, which is always frustrating to watch. Some of it's bad luck but some of it is just dumb, lazy play. I always liked MDZ. I watch the Rangers fairly often and I liked him back then, was happy the Flyers got him. If he can stay healthy he makes the Flyers quicker and more reliable on the breakouts (not that they've been terrible so far). He's pretty much a lock to contribute offensively. Gudas is a wildcard. Nice to have somebody who hits like a freight train and isn't a pylon but he's wearing a target on his back now. How effective he'll be only time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, DaGreatGazoo said: Based on what I've seen out of Streit and MacDonald, adding MDZ and Gudas makes this team measurably better. Amen!!! Can i get a witness!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FD19372 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 hours ago, canoli said: Frankly I'd sit Streit before MacDonald. Last night he must've turned the puck over 12 times just in the 3rd. McD has let too many pucks bounce over his stick, which is always frustrating to watch. Some of it's bad luck but some of it is just dumb, lazy play. I always liked MDZ. I watch the Rangers fairly often and I liked him back then, was happy the Flyers got him. If he can stay healthy he makes the Flyers quicker and more reliable on the breakouts (not that they've been terrible so far). He's pretty much a lock to contribute offensively. Gudas is a wildcard. Nice to have somebody who hits like a freight train and isn't a pylon but he's wearing a target on his back now. How effective he'll be only time will tell I guess. Streit's on his way out soon, but just his presence on the power play alone makes him more valuable to have out there. MacDonald should be a healthy scratch. Del Zotto is a better all-around d man than either of them. He should be on the ice as well once healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 9 hours ago, DaGreatGazoo said: I didn't think they were outmatched last night. I thought it was pretty good effort. They need to figure out their 5v5 play--Still not getting consistent offense. Giroux's line isn't clicking yet, so for now, they are still a one line team. That should change eventually. This team has yet to play with it's predicted roster, due to injuires/suspensions. Schenn is still in training camp mode for whatever reason. Based on what I've seen out of Streit and MacDonald, adding MDZ and Gudas makes this team measurably better. Streit has been the worst Dman on the ice many nights. He got really, really old over the summer. He looks WAY worse than last year, even though he was coming off a nasty injury then. Yeah I'm bummed about Streit. I really wanted to trade him at the deadline. He's not making that easy. Mac... I don't know either. He was solid in camp now... Not so much. Can bench/demote him, but not Streit. Send down Manning/Mac when everyone's healthy? Schenn is definitely off and it's hurting the first line. They were doing better before he returned. That's not helping. All in in all I still think the ice was a bit slanted last night and the difference maker was more than Price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 6 hours ago, canoli said: Frankly I'd sit Streit before MacDonald. Last night he must've turned the puck over 12 times just in the 3rd. McD has let too many pucks bounce over his stick, which is always frustrating to watch. Some of it's bad luck but some of it is just dumb, lazy play. I always liked MDZ. I watch the Rangers fairly often and I liked him back then, was happy the Flyers got him. If he can stay healthy he makes the Flyers quicker and more reliable on the breakouts (not that they've been terrible so far). He's pretty much a lock to contribute offensively. Gudas is a wildcard. Nice to have somebody who hits like a freight train and isn't a pylon but he's wearing a target on his back now. How effective he'll be only time will tell I guess. Gudas really showed me a lot last spring. He could just stop hitting and do more of that and if be okay, but that's not his game. Frankly I still think the suspension was crap and the league has a lot of explaning to do that they'll afford he players who will remain clueless as to what exactly will get you in trouble and what won't and thus this kind of thing will continue to happen. Hut there's more to his game id love to see him lean on. MDZ is all about the durability. Between the two of them, neither can manage to stay on the ice long enough to really benefit his club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, King Knut said: Send down Manning/Mac when everyone's healthy? Why would you send Manning down when he is playing some of the best two way hockey on the team?? He would have to go through waivers which he wouldn't make it through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 9 hours ago, PhilsFanDrew said: The season is still so young that it is still nearly impossible to get an objective read on what this team will be this year. Even more difficult because of the early suspensions/injuries. Another issue is that this team in recent years has gotten off to slow starts. The good news is their next three games are at home, 2 of which are against sub par teams. There are some good signs in the early going so not all is bad. Voracek has gotten off to a strong start and has over a PPG average. While he hasn't scored a goal yet Giroux has provided some assists and is just over a PPG. Simmonds is looking on pace for another 30+ goal season. Coots looks to be taking another step in offensive development and Matt Read is playing like the Matt Read of 3 years ago. I think the defense has been the weak link so far but that should have been expected missing two regulars and a 19 year old rookie averaging the most ice time in a couple games. Hakstol has also taken the training wheels off of Ghost so this year so I'm curious to see his production and how that plays out compared to last year. The goalies have been okay. Not spectacular but not a disaster either. Maybe slightly better than average. Grades so far.... Forwards: A- Defense: D Goalies: B- Special Teams: B I feel like the entire team focus on defense has lapsed. Maybe by design? Is Hak trying something new or are Provo and Ghost too damn green and Streit and Mac just too damn old to play Hak's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, King Knut said: I feel like the entire team focus on defense has lapsed. Maybe by design? Is Hak trying something new or are Provo and Ghost too damn green and Streit and Mac just too damn old to play Hak's game? ...because you have to send someone? I guess they can carry him as 7th Schultz Ghost Gudas MDZ Streit Provo Manning? Hak is benching Schultz but I'm not a fan. Schultz has been great in comparison. I'd rather see Schultz with Provo or Ghost and have Mac or Streit benched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 The team will get better as the season goes on. Let's face it, we are a wild card team at best, and they're starting with quite a terrible schedule to begin the season. If we can stay around .500 or better until the end of November and avoid any major injuries (already looking bad on that front), we're in good shape. I'd much rather start playing better in the new year, then pull what Montreal does every year and win the Cup in October/November before we **** the bed when it matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 9 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: The team will get better as the season goes on. Let's face it, we are a wild card team at best, and they're starting with quite a terrible schedule to begin the season. If we can stay around .500 or better until the end of November and avoid any major injuries (already looking bad on that front), we're in good shape. I'd much rather start playing better in the new year, then pull what Montreal does every year and win the Cup in October/November before we **** the bed when it matters Aside from typical impatience (it's been 6 and a half years since they were "good" and 4 and a half since I could pretend they were "good"), what I find so interesting is just how they seem exactly the same degree of "meh" while playing a completely different style on the ice. They look much more like the free wheeling 2012 team that scored a bunch but was lucky to stop a puck than they do like the 2016 team that was so stingy in their own end down the stretch and against the caps. I do think the personel on defense is a large part of that and I think that personel gets better as the season goes on and they gain experience (if as you mention they can stay healthy). Mostly I just don't know. I'd much rather have a team that can score 3 or 4 goals in a period to come back than one that can't muster 2 in a whole night, but I'd also rather not have the team getting off to these slow starts that require scoring 3 or 4 goals to get back into a game. I mean when you think about it, this team has overcome a 4 goal deficit and a 3 goal deficit already in this young season. They couldn't hold on for one of them, but they held on for the other. That's really really good and really really bad all at once! ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 What I read was they've been behind every game but 1 so far. Great resilience to battle back to .500 but not exactly a recipe for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, canoli said: What I read was they've been behind every game but 1 so far. Great resilience to battle back to .500 but not exactly a recipe for success. Exactly. Kudos for battling back, but this will bite them more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I'm not worried about the defense. It will come together. Right now, Provorov has become the de facto number one guy on the back end. Gostisbehere is only in his second year and those two have had to carry the club. Now that Gudas is back and once Del Zotto comes back, that pressure that's on Provorov and Gostisbehere to carry the club is going to lessen. That leaves Manning, Schultz, Streit and MacDonald to fight it out to man the bottom pairing. I think people need to lighten up a bit because it's only seven games into the season. Remember how awful this club was to start the year last year? Exactly. It will come together. The unfortunate is that the Flyers of the last 10 to 15 years have been notorious slow starters. By the time mid-November hits, this club will be on a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 When healthy then we could see... MDZ/Gudas Manning/Ghost IP/Schultz Streit till traded....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 On October 26, 2016 at 8:54 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I'm not worried about the defense. It will come together. Right now, Provorov has become the de facto number one guy on the back end. Gostisbehere is only in his second year and those two have had to carry the club. Now that Gudas is back and once Del Zotto comes back, that pressure that's on Provorov and Gostisbehere to carry the club is going to lessen. That leaves Manning, Schultz, Streit and MacDonald to fight it out to man the bottom pairing. I think people need to lighten up a bit because it's only seven games into the season. Remember how awful this club was to start the year last year? Exactly. It will come together. The unfortunate is that the Flyers of the last 10 to 15 years have been notorious slow starters. By the time mid-November hits, this club will be on a roll. Schultz needs to be on the ice. He's they're only stay at home guy and his advanced stats were very strong. The Phoenix game would have been a win with Schultz in the game. I'm almost certain. Additionally,though I'd keep him if he's playing as well, Schultz is a potential trade chip rental player for he deadline. He needs to be seen by scouts and work of his resume and numbers a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 21 hours ago, King Knut said: Schultz needs to be on the ice. He's they're only stay at home guy and his advanced stats were very strong. The Phoenix game would have been a win with Schultz in the game. I'm almost certain. Additionally,though I'd keep him if he's playing as well, Schultz is a potential trade chip rental player for he deadline. He needs to be seen by scouts and work of his resume and numbers a bit. I like Schultz, but he digressed something fierce last year and he's been atrocious in pre season this year. I don't know what it is with Schultz because the mind is there, but I think the body is trying to do too much. He's got A LOT of mileage on him. Where I feel confident about the defense is that Morin is very close to being ready. And when he's ready, he's going to be that much needed defensive stopper this club needs, the hammer so to speak. Any offense he provides is a bonus, but his size, skating ability, puck handling ability and his physical game are going to be a much needed fit on the club. He's going to play such an important role on the PK and in the final minute or two of a game. I've called Morin a better skating Derian Hatcher numerous times and I really think that's how the club sees him as well. Great defensive defensemen like that are becoming a rarity in the game, even though they can still play a pivotal role. I have incredibly high hopes for what Morin will bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 What I hope for Morin is that Gudas takes him under his wing and supplements his physical intimidating punishing style to get opponents to back off when they see him coming. To bad Chara isnt on the team. And then maybe Del Zoto to show him how he learned when to pinch in offensively and when to hold the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Is it time to bring in the shooter-tutor for Ghost? Guy can't seem to hit the broadside of a barn door these days. Hell of an effort by Gudas last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 The team is better with Gudas back in the lineup, especially last night vs. the Pens. Giroux never gets that goal if Gudas doesn't keep the puck in the zone. check it out, starts about 1:00 in, 3 plays on the puck to keep it alive for the Flyers. Gudas great keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Is it time to bring in the shooter-tutor for Ghost? Guy can't seem to hit the broadside of a barn door these days. Hell of an effort by Gudas last night... What Ghost needs is a good steady partner i feel bad for the kid having to play with guys like Mcdud and Schultz. HE needs a guy he can compliment so he can get back to concentrating on the offensive side of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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