Giroux's All Time place with other Flyers Great Forwards?

[pilldoc]

If and when Giroux is traded from the Flyers ......  (Assuming here that he will be traded sometime this weekend)

 

Where do you rank Giroux with the All Time Great Flyers Forwards? (do not include goalies or D-men)

What will you remember about Giroux ...face it, good or bad he has left his mark on this franchise for years to come.  

 

What is your rank from 1-12 of All Time Great Flyer Forwards?

 

My ranking:

1. Bob Clarke (player only! Not as a member of the FO)
2. Bill Barber
3. Eric Lindros
4. Tim Kerr
5. John LeClair
6. Claude Giroux
7. Rick MacLeish
8. Brian Propp
9. Rod Brind' Amour
10. Mark Recchi
11. Simon Gagne
12. Reggie Leach
13. Rick Tochett (I really want to put him higher but where?)

Thoughts?

[Samifan]

30 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

If and when Giroux is traded from the Flyers ......  (Assuming here that he will be traded sometime this weekend)

 

Where do you rank Giroux with the All Time Great Flyers Forwards? (do not include goalies or D-men)

What will you remember about Giroux ...face it, good or bad he has left his mark on this franchise for years to come.  

 

What is your rank from 1-12 of All Time Great Flyer Forwards?

 

My ranking:

1. Bob Clarke (player only! Not as a member of the FO)
2. Bill Barber
3. Eric Lindros
4. Tim Kerr
5. John LeClair
6. Claude Giroux
7. Rick MacLeish
8. Brian Propp
9. Rod Brind' Amour
10. Mark Recchi
11. Simon Gagne
12. Reggie Leach
13. Rick Tochett (I really want to put him higher but where?)

Thoughts?

Ok, here goes….

Going off your list I’d put Giroux ahead of Kerr and LeClair for his longevity and production alone. For that same reason I’m tempted to give him a slight edge over Lindros as well but I’ll keep G at #4 all time Forward because during his era Lindros was consistently the first person you thought of whenever the Flyers were mentioned. Not sure if the same can be said about Giroux. So #4

 

I’m just happy I didn’t see Jake Voracek on this list.

 

[pilldoc]

6 minutes ago, Samifan said:

Going off your list I’d put Giroux ahead of Kerr

 

People tend to forget what an incredible career Tim Kerr had.  Sadly injuries decimated many of his seasons.

 

 

For a stretch there he had 4 straight 50+ goal seasons.  Injury decimated his 87-88 season. He comes back and flirts with 50 goals again.  This in an era where goal scoring was down as compared to today's game.  

 

For a career he is greater than a point per game.  He has more goals in less games than Giroux.  (370 goals in 655 games as compared to Giroux's  291 goals in  1000 games)

 

I can see your argument with Giroux > LeClair, but I am still taking a healthy Kerr over Giroux every day of the week.

[pilldoc]

18 minutes ago, Samifan said:

I’m just happy I didn’t see Jake Voracek on this list.

 

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

24 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

People tend to forget what an incredible career Tim Kerr had.  Sadly injuries decimated many of his seasons.

 

 

For a stretch there he had 4 straight 50+ goal seasons.  Injury decimated his 87-88 season. He comes back and flirts with 50 goals again.  This in an era where goal scoring was down as compared to today's game.  

 

For a career he is greater than a point per game.  He has more goals in less games than Giroux.  (370 goals in 655 games as compared to Giroux's  291 goals in  1000 games)

 

I can see your argument with Giroux > LeClair, but I am still taking a healthy Kerr over Giroux every day of the week.

Loved Tim Kerr he had terrible luck with all the injuries then the death of his wife. If he could have played Flyers win the Stanley Cup against the Islanders.

[flyer4ever]

Hard to quantify. More losses than wins. One taste of almost playoff success. I realize he is not the GM, yet still hard. The team he captained outright gave up multiple times. Hockey is about more than just numbers on a stat sheet. He has been a really good player, just no wins. Dave Poulin captained two over achieving teams to the SC finals, that alone puts him on my list.  

[pilldoc]

2 minutes ago, Pedo 228 ERQS said:

Loved Tim Kerr he had terrible luck with all the injuries then the death of his wife. If he could have played Flyers win the Stanley Cup against the Islanders.

 

I forgot about the death of his first wife Kathy.  I was in college at the time it happened.  Very sad.  If I remember correctly, Kathy was very instrumental in coordinating the anual Flyers Wives' Carnival.

[ruxpin]

17 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Hard to quantify. More losses than wins. One taste of almost playoff success. I realize he is not the GM, yet still hard. The team he captained outright gave up multiple times. Hockey is about more than just numbers on a stat sheet. He has been a really good player, just no wins. Dave Poulin captained two over achieving teams to the SC finals, that alone puts him on my list.  

 

I thought any list should include Poulin, too.  I wonder (for me) if it's because those teams were during my high school years so an attachment.

 

I guess if we're talking about all time Flyers captains it's Clarke, Poulin, Lindros (in that order. Hopefully no one was expecting Dineen).

 

But a list of forwards based solely on numbers, I guess maybe not.

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

19 minutes ago, pilldoc said:

 

I forgot about the death of his first wife Kathy.  I was in college at the time it happened.  Very sad.  If I remember correctly, Kathy was very instrumental in coordinating the anual Flyers Wives' Carnival.

Yes she was 

[CoachX]

I'm not going to factor in stats, wins, blah blah blah. As a Flyer fan I will go off MY pure emotion. I will remember Clarke, lindros, Kerr, Marlies, tocchet and others based off how they reside in my memory

 

Giroux won't be there. Barring him returning and doing something great, he just had that impact.  It's the same with guys like richards, carter, and well, that my point, I have to struggle to remember that list

[mojo1917]

1 Clarke- of course

2 Lindros 

3 Giroux

4 Propp

5 Poulin/Gagne

4 and 5 are big reasons I'm a Flyers fan today.

 

Bill Barber can suck it. He was Kris Letang playing forward, without the great hair.

I wish Kerr could have played longer. He was a MONSTER, but ultimately his career was too short.

 

The fallacy that one person can will 17 others to play above their abilities will haunt G's legacy.

This trope comes from people that I know understand the game, I also know I won't change any minds either. 

Giroux was the best player on mostly not good teams, the fact that he couldn't raise the level of, or inspire Dale Weisse to play 15/35 hockey cannot be considered a failing of Giroux's because of the letter sewn on his sweater. 

 

He did the best he could, he did whatever the team asked of him, he played at a really high level for a long time.

During the last 10 years he played on 2 good teams the rest of the time was dragging a team of mediocre NHL players to relevancy. 

The organization failed a talented player and decent human for most of his career.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by mojo1917
added the Kerr bit

[GratefulFlyers]

Giroux sucks and it's all his fault. end of story. deal with it.

[mojo1917]

16 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Marlies

who is this?

[pilldoc]

5 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

21 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Marlies

who is this?

 

I was wondering that too ..... MacLeish?

[icehole]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

If and when Giroux is traded from the Flyers ......  (Assuming here that he will be traded sometime this weekend)

 

Where do you rank Giroux with the All Time Great Flyers Forwards? (do not include goalies or D-men)

What will you remember about Giroux ...face it, good or bad he has left his mark on this franchise for years to come.  

 

What is your rank from 1-12 of All Time Great Flyer Forwards?

 

My ranking:

1. Bob Clarke (player only! Not as a member of the FO)
2. Bill Barber
3. Eric Lindros
4. Tim Kerr
5. John LeClair
6. Claude Giroux
7. Rick MacLeish
8. Brian Propp
9. Rod Brind' Amour
10. Mark Recchi
11. Simon Gagne
12. Reggie Leach
13. Rick Tochett (I really want to put him higher but where?)

Thoughts?

I love this topic. Unfortunately, I started watching toward the end of Kerr, and I was probably too young to know what he meant to the team. I have Clarke at 1, only because of the stories I've heard. Lindros at 2 because he was so dominant. I have Giroux at 3, and he might be the most "talented" flyer I've ever seen. If Lindros was Giroux's size in an era where goals are sometimes hard to come by, I don't think he would have been as good as Giroux.

The rest is pretty much up in the air for me. There were some good ones like LeClair and Brimdamour and tochett but I don't think they had an impact like Giroux did. It's such a shame they wasted much of his career.

[CoachX]

15 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

who is this?

Stupid spell check...

 

Macliesh (sp)

[pilldoc]

4 minutes ago, icehole said:

I love this topic.

 

Thank You ......

 

4 minutes ago, icehole said:

I started watching toward the end of Kerr, and I was probably too young to know what he meant to the team.

 

I was fortunate .... I remember the mid 80's team clearly as I was in high school at the time.  And yes I cried the day Pelle was killed.  So I get your POV.

 

Not directed at you specifically... but to everyone else...

 

So even though Lindros did not bring a SC to Philly, he was inducted into the NHL Hall of Fame.   Is Giroux worthy of that consideration?  The Flyers Hall of Fame?

 

@yave1964 has a wonderful list of criteria that we use when topics like this come up.

@yave1964 ...can you post that list again for us.

[pilldoc]

3 minutes ago, CoachX said:

Stupid spell check...

 

Macliesh (sp)

 

Thought so.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, pilldoc said:

What is your rank from 1-12 of All Time Great Flyer Forwards?

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, pilldoc said:

So even though Lindros did not bring a SC to Philly, he was inducted into the NHL Hall of Fame.   Is Giroux worthy of that consideration?  The Flyers Hall of Fame?

 

@yave1964 has a wonderful list of criteria that we use when topics like this come up.

@yave1964 ...can you post that list again for us.

I actually think it is @JR Ewing and his Keltner list.

Keltner List - Cooperstown Cred

 

JR modified this to hockey, the last time I did it for Giroux he was hall worthy. But not a shoo in.

 

[CoachX]

42 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

The fallacy that one person can will 17 others to play above their abilities will haunt G's legacy.

This has no impact on me. I never expected, nor expect, a leader to "will" a person to be better

 

I expect a player to play at his best and let that do the talking for them. Lindros was this player. He went on the ice and did what he did best, and others got on board. Mostly because they wanted to, and maybe that's what you mean by , "will".

 

I thought early in his career giroux was this guy. As it unfolded, he looked more to like a professional business level hockey player, more concerned with buying into the Flyers business model. I didnt see a guy who continued to do whatever he needed to, on the ice.

 

I know many will disagree with this. That's fine. But like I said earlier, the guy hasn't left any lasting memories on me. When one of your biggest accolades was a single shift, a decade ago, that isn't much. And honestly, if it hadn't been against the hated Crosby, that shift wouldn't be a memory either

Edited March 19, 2022 by CoachX

[pilldoc]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

I actually think it is @JR Ewing and his Keltner list.

Keltner List - Cooperstown Cred

 

JR modified this to hockey, the last time I did it for Giroux he was hall worthy. But not a shoo in.

 

 

you know what .... I think you are right .... my bad.  It is @JR Ewing who initially shared the list.  Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

I guess if we're talking about all time Flyers captains it's Clarke, Poulin, Lindros (in that order. Hopefully no one was expecting Dineen).

Mel Brigman

[CoachX]

23 minutes ago, icehole said:

LeClair and Brimdamour and tochett but I don't think they had an impact like Giroux did.

These players constantly played on, and impacted Flyers teams that were regulars in the playoffs.  Giroux isn't even close or in this conversation

[OccamsRazor]

32 minutes ago, CoachX said:

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

This has no impact on me. I never expected, nor expect, a leader to "will" a person to be better

 

 

I can only compare to when i was squad leader in the Navy and in a leadership role.

 

 

What i drove in the Navy. Ours had a 50 cal on it.

 

Hauling the Jarheads toys around.

 

I was almost a Jarhead myself but i had to wait 7 or 8 months to go to bootcamp so i went Navy like my dad my grandfather was a Marine on Iwo Jima.

 

 

Big shoes to fill in both of them. Dad was in Vietnam.

 

And even in my job today. In Pharmaceuticals as a lead. Which now is only 4 man crew.

 

More like a pit crew in NASCAR.

 

Anyways back on topic.

 

I would always tell the ones under me i am responsible for training you guys and raising them basically. 

 

I know people learn at different rates and ways the one thing today i can't provide for you is motivation.

 

myself i can read stuff all i want i need to put my hands on and do it myself. Or at least try. therefor i always tell them i can teach them all day whatever they want to learn but yep don't look at me to make you want to do it.

 

When i was coming thru all the guys showing me when i asked a question they would just say "what does your procedure say" was their response effin hated that crap, the one thing today i can't provide for you is motivation still rings true.

 

I know this stuff. You need to learnt his stuff so you need to bring it.

 

Because with me i'll show you just ask is my way of teaching.

 

And that then weeds them out of who will make it or not usually....or i'll be able to tell.

 

Anyways this team needs a new Super Star how do they get one because they don't don't know how to do this obviously.

 

Kind of the reason they traded for Lindros.