mojo1917 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 @radoran You know I disagree with nothing you've written. I've never said the Flyers should buy at the deadline. I've even mentioned Atkinson as a trade candidate. I don't think Walker fits a "built team " timeline. But he's been damn good so far. It's reasonable to wonder what the message received by the Farabees and Tippetts is if he's dealt when they're in the 1st wildcard spot. So my hope is the team is about 8 pts out of a PO spot by the trade deadline, so guys who've been good can be dealt. I don't know about Konecny either, is he young enough to be the grizzled vet on the built team? I like what he brings. I think his value as a Flyer may be at least equal to whichever assets he brings back in a trade. There are more hard choices than easy ones coming down the road. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I don't know about Konecny either, is he young enough to be the grizzled vet on the built team? I like what he brings. I think his value as a Flyer may be at least equal to whichever assets he brings back in a trade. It's really entirely based on the return and I would need to be blown away. Konency fits the Flyer mold more than most I can immediately think of that didn't wear 17. Either of them. Don't plan to lose. Don't make effort for short term win. Focus on long term success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Fuzz said: You can believe what you want to believe........... I choose not to believe serial liar Bob Clarke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, mojo1917 said: It's reasonable to wonder what the message received by the Farabees and Tippetts is if he's dealt when they're in the 1st wildcard spot. I think it is unreasonable to wonder this. It's simply not their job to receive messages. If these guys decide they are fine with losing, they should be the next ones shown the door. The Giroux teams didn't lose because they had accepted losing. They lost because they didn't have enough talent and the bosses kept thinking that they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: I choose not to believe serial liar Bob Clarke. Bob Clarke had no idea who Claude Giroux was when he announced him as a first round pick. Arguably the best 20+ draft pick in team history? Love the player. Hate the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: It's simply not their job to receive messages. It is, actually, and the message is "this isn't your year" "Next year isn't your year, either" "We believe in y'all and havea bunch of stuff coming in the next couple of years and if y'all hang with us we can be moving in the right direction." That's not a bad message for the team and the fan base. "It's exciting to be a Flyers fan" Hartnell just said. It is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 6 hours ago, radoran said: It is, actually, and the message is "this isn't your year" "Next year isn't your year, either" "We believe in y'all and havea bunch of stuff coming in the next couple of years and if y'all hang with us we can be moving in the right direction." That's not a bad message for the team and the fan base. Or how about We're trying to build a team to win the cup, not just make the playoffs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 10 hours ago, tucson83 said: fact is i'll be happy when this team wins cup, for some reason you wont be. Fact is, you'd rather dump our best defenceman and our best player and sign a washed up guy long term, and I wouldn't have done any of those, so I'm pretty sure my way of thinking gets us a lot closer to a cup than yours. I want this team to win a cup. You want this team to keep using the same formula that hasn't won a cup in 50 years! Signing Gaudreau would have been just as dumb as signing Hayes or JVR. How'd those work out for us? Listen Chuck, you're not the Flyers GM anymore, go back to following Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I don't know about Konecny either, is he young enough to be the grizzled vet on the built team? I like what he brings. I think his value as a Flyer may be at least equal to whichever assets he brings back in a trade. I've said it plenty of times...Konecny is a favorite, the only way I deal him is for an overpayment. You know how we got Konecny? By trading away vets for draft picks that we used to move up in the draft and grab him. Just think, we could have still had the Ghost of Timonen and Coburn instead of Travis Konecny. Good times huh? Edited December 10, 2023 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 So now Risto, Seeler and Walker drawing interest...Danny do it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said: So now Risto, Seeler and Walker drawing interest...Danny do it!!! To me Walker doesn't go unless it's for a pretty good deal. His value at the deadline should be pretty damn good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: To me Walker doesn't go unless it's for a pretty good deal. His value at the deadline should be pretty damn good. As long as they are selling and not chasing some pipe dream of the playoff quick exit I'm good with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 10 hours ago, mojo1917 said: I think his value as a Flyer may be is much higher than any assets they can possibly he brings back in a trade Please pardon the butcher job. Maybe "any assets" sounds like an exaggeration but I don't think a pick that falls outside of the top 5 is worth trading away one of the best, most complete forwards in the NHL. And he still hasn't reached his ceiling. He may very well hit 40+ goals this year. He's on a 48-goal pace. The guy does it all and there aren't many like him. Basically there's Marchand and Konecny. TK is everything I want from a Flyers' forward - a constant threat to score at even strength and on the PK. Also a constant irritant to the opposition. I think the Flyers have more shorties than anyone else thanks mostly to Konecny. I'm all for tearing it down but there's a limit. In my opinion if you trade away a unique player like Konecny you went over it. Hart I don't trade Because Flyers. The Flyers absolutely STINK at finding, developing and managing goaltenders. Now they have a goalie tandem that's plenty good enough to win PO rounds. Messing with it is begging for trouble and for what? A late 1R if you're lucky? Pass. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 9 hours ago, SCFlyguy said: It's simply not their job to receive messages So shut up and dribble then? That doesn't work with modern athletes. We really disagree on this. Danny Jonesy need to be super-mega-up-front about the plan, especially with guys they think are part of a winning team. These players were told "the players will determine what happens this season". "You guys did great ɓut we think the chance to draft another Nolan Patrick is more important going forward than the effort you just put in" doesn't seem like the way to build a winning culture. There's a top 5 and a top 1/2 player in the system. Young guys seem too be improving. It's not unreasonable to think a Rangers style rerturn to contention is possible. I figured this team would be around .500 until Thanksgiving then I thought contending teams would get their legs and begin to start their#1 goalies and the Flyers would return to reality. But now after a stretch where they beat the champs played 8 games vs good Metro teams, where they went 4-4, but, they were smoked by the Rangers and 'Canes. Then they go on the road and beat an overachieving Coyote team and beat the Avalanche, who were trying. The Flyers aren't "there" yet but it doesn't look too far to me. They are not as good as the Rangers , Canes and Devils, the gap isn't as vast as I thought it would be. I like the direction of the team and hope the right moves can be made to get to that top tier. I think guys like Tippett and Farrabee can be on that team. I would try not to treat them like they don't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Just think, we could have still had the Ghost of Timonen and Coburn instead of Travis Konecny. Good times huh? In both cases the Flyers had been out of contention when those players were traded for the Konecny magic beans. As I've stated many times. Ideally this happens this season also. If it doesn't and Danny Jonesy trades good players off a contending team. I have concerns how the players who just layed out for a whole season's worth of blocked shots will react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 26 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: In both cases the Flyers had been out of contention when those players were traded for the Konecny magic beans. As I've stated many times. Ideally this happens this season also. If it doesn't and Danny Jonesy trades good players off a contending team. I have concerns how the players who just layed out for a whole season's worth of blocked shots will react. I think players can see what management is trying to do. Whether it's keep an overachieving team together, or trade off a few parts that probably will be well past their prime when it's actually GO time, I think it can be explained what is better for the future of this team. Either way, it's way more positive than playing under Fletcher knowing that each and every move dooms you further and further. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, mojo1917 said: So shut up and dribble then? Lol, asking the players to do their jobs and not to mope even though the organization traded away their bff is not the same as trying to keep the players from making a political statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, mojo1917 said: The Flyers aren't "there" yet but it doesn't look too far to me. They are not as good as the Rangers , Canes and Devils, the gap isn't as vast as I thought it would be. The main gap at the moment is talent. The Flyers have talent, but acquiring more young talent isn't a bad thing - in fact it is essential to team success over time. There's no reason for a fire sale and I wouldn't trade guys for relative pittances just for the sake of doing it. But if they're offered a first for an older piece like Atkinson, I think they have to a least kick the tires. That offer may well not come, but on top of the asset, the cap space could help offset the $7.3M in dead cap they're running with next season. #Fletched Two firsts might also be packaged to get a higher first. We'll see what happens. Edited December 10, 2023 by radoran 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 3 hours ago, radoran said: But if they're offered a first for an older piece like Atkinson, I think they have to a least kick the tires. Atkinson, Risto, Staal, Couturier, Hathaway, Deslauriers. Walker. These are the people I'm trading for pieces. Of that group, Couturier is the last to go unless someone is trading me an unprotected potential top 5 pick. It's been suggested that we trade a 26 year old winger projected to score 40 (I'm prorating, but that's apparently a thing). There is no way on this earth that I'm trading that piece unless I'm getting first(S) + significant prospects. Even then, what kind of drugs does it take to trade him? So, he's 28 or 29 by the time Michkov is here and Gauthier is contributing. That's not an issue. You have a young, known quantity that is thriving, you continue to grow around him. If that same player is 29 or 30 right now, that changes the algebra. If you think you can't afford to sign him after next season, that's another reason to go ahead, but I only do this if his $8M cap isn't going to work--then do it this year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Of that group, Couturier is the last to go unless someone is trading me an unprotected potential top 5 pick. Danny ain't trading his baby sitter... But everyone else and maybe even a RW not on the list... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Danny ain't trading his baby sitter... But everyone else and maybe even a RW not on the list... I still maintain trading Konecny is utterly stupid unless they can't sign him. And that's its own failure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 I could care less about the playoffs right now. Lazer focused on the Cup...THAT is what we were promised with new regime! If they happen to make the playoffs without diverting from the master plan....great. I piss on the playoffs if it costs even a slight move off PERMANENTLY FIXING THIS ****!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 3 hours ago, ruxpin said: I still maintain trading Konecny is utterly stupid unless they can't sign him. And that's its own failure. If I'm trading a RW it's going to be Cam and Tippett. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: If I'm trading a RW it's going to be Cam and Tippett. I'm perfectly fine with moving Cam. I've always liked him, but I'd trade him for a decent rehab m return. Tippett may be worth keeping, but I'd listen. So long as he's cost controlled, he's worth building with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 12 hours ago, ruxpin said: Tippett may be worth keeping, but I'd listen Depends on what Tippett wants i give him no more than what TK is making and only a 3-5 year deal if he needs more good bye ship him out for the best return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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