What's Konecny's value? contract or trade

[jammer2]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Sure but they won't finish low enough to even get Catton is my point you're going to be on a wing and a prayer to find thar guy where they will draft I mean hey they did it late with Giroux so guess you can try to catch Lightning in a bottle twice.

 

But even some will argue that Giorux was never even that should have been 2C instead of 1C I'm not going down that road.

 

But getting a 1C where they draft ain't happening.

 

Unless barring Danny selling off everything and then the team taking a nose dive could always happen.

 

I can't see it they are shooting for the make the playoffs and anything can happen mantra.

 

LA Kings won a Stanely Cup as an 8th seed so why not us I where they are mentally.

 

Just my 2 cents

Outside the box thinking needed. Trade picks and or players to move up...York and our 1st...Frost, 2nd rd, our 1st...stuff like that...2 1sts and a 2nd ....etc. 

[OccamsRazor]

Just now, jammer2 said:

Outside the box thinking needed. Trade picks and or players to move up...York and our 1st...Frost, 2nd rd, our 1st...stuff like that...2 1sts and a 2nd ....etc. 

 

Sure I get and agree but without a dance partner there is no dance.

 

But Dany does need to find his center of the future like Holmgren found him and I'm not sure you find that guy in free agency but they must be creative

 

Because they must improve down the middle or it won't matter who you have on the wings.

[RonJeremy]

22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Not a fan of this move at all it leaves zero room for improvement on the back end.

 

Sure I like moving Risto but not the rest either.

 

It is a rebuild and resigning 2 older D men doesn't make sense and will once again drafting in the 15-20s again and once again prove they refuse to embrace a full on rebuild like many of us feared.

And you can be guaranteed that Seeler and Walker will return to their mediocre selves after the contracts are signed.  Is it any coincidence two pending UFAs are having career seasons. Don't fall for it. 

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

And you can be guaranteed that Seeler and Walker will return to their mediocre selves after the contracts are signed.  Is it any coincidence two pending UFAs are having career seasons. Don't fall for it. 

 

Yes before the ink dries they will regress to the mean.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

And you can be guaranteed that Seeler and Walker will return to their mediocre selves after the contracts are signed.  Is it any coincidence two pending UFAs are having career seasons. Don't fall for it. 

 

I seen reports the other day that they heard that they'd be happy running it back with this group again I sh it you not.

 

Hearing that almost made me want to throw the f uck up.

 

[RonJeremy]

20 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I seen reports the other day that they heard that they'd be happy running it back with this group again I sh it you not.

 

Hearing that almost made me want to throw the f uck up.

 

They never learn. Signing these two creates several problems,  you lose out on a chance to stockpile draft picks and expedite the rebuild and you block guys like Attard, Bonk,Ginning and Andrae.  Seeler was on waivers a year ago, now he's a second pairing dman? Seeler and Walkers value will never be higher. We are not Cup contenders,  these guys are gonna keep us just mediocre enough to pick 20th and to be a bubble playoff team. As we have all discussed, we need real #1 and 2 centers.  Any assets we get in trading these guys and Laughton can be part of a package to move up and get a center. 

[GratefulFlyers]

7 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

And you can be guaranteed that Seeler and Walker will return to their mediocre selves after the contracts are signed.  Is it any coincidence two pending UFAs are having career seasons. Don't fall for it. 

 

I don't agree unless they're both okay making a lot of popcorn next year. They both know - everybody knows - Tortorella will bench your sorry ass if your prep / effort falls off, particularly if it's a dropoff year over year, which will stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I'm not saying it isn't a concern because it's only natural to go harder in a contract year. I don't hold that against pro athletes. If Seeler's shot-blocking takes a hit he's still gonna be among the NHL leaders. For Walker it's skating, getting up in the play; easy to spot if he dogs it.

 

That said I agree completely: both should be traded for assets before the TD. Established D-men are premium assets that every PO team wants. If "the room" loses some strength of character so be it. As you say their value will never be higher than it is now. If their absence makes it clear they're integral to the rebuild ... hire them back over the summer.

 

And "integral to the rebuild" means just that not long-term commitments. Offer them a higher AAV for a 3-year term max...i.e. do the opposite of the Tippett deal.

 

 

[RonJeremy]

16 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

 

I don't agree unless they're both okay making a lot of popcorn next year. They both know - everybody knows - Tortorella will bench your sorry ass if your prep / effort falls off, particularly if it's a dropoff year over year, which will stand out like a sore thumb.

 

I'm not saying it isn't a concern because it's only natural to go harder in a contract year. I don't hold that against pro athletes. If Seeler's shot-blocking takes a hit he's still gonna be among the NHL leaders. For Walker it's skating, getting up in the play; easy to spot if he dogs it.

 

That said I agree completely: both should be traded for assets before the TD. Established D-men are premium assets that every PO team wants. If "the room" loses some strength of character so be it. As you say their value will never be higher than it is now. If their absence makes it clear they're integral to the rebuild ... hire them back over the summer.

 

And "integral to the rebuild" means just that not long-term commitments. Offer them a higher AAV for a 3-year term max...i.e. do the opposite of the Tippett deal.

 

 

Problem is, a thirty year old guy is not looking for a 2-3 year  contract,  they are looking for that big 5 year payday to take them to retirement . Especially two guys who never earned big money to begin with.  I don't see a hometown discount,  I see them chasing the biggest offer to set themselves up for retirement.  

Edited February 19 by RonJeremy

[GratefulFlyers]

1 minute ago, RonJeremy said:

Problem is, a thirty year old guy is not looking for a 2-3 year  contract,  they are looking for that big 5 year payday to take them to retirement . Especially two guys who never earned big money to begin with.  I don't see a hometown discount,  I see them chasing the biggest offer to set themselves up for retirement.  

 

Yep could be...Like you I doubt either one is interested in a hometown discount.

 

OTOH it's easy to forget what a gigantic change the Flyers have already accomplished, with more to come. I'm only guessing but the Flyers are probably already "back on the map" as a destination. So maybe...

 

Whatever - the main thing is what you said before - their value is at its peak for the next couple weeks and the Flyers need to fill some holes...maybe they can pry a 1R for Walker...? Take that 1R and another, trade them to CBJ or whoever for a 1-5 pick...?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

3 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Columbus actually was interested in Konecny,  they have good young players and a top 10 pick..

I'd love to get a top 10 pick and young players for Konecny. The chances of that happening? I'm not sure. I suppose we could look at what Jeff Carter got as a basis for a Konecny deal, but there were done extenuating circumstances there. 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what the Flyers should do with Konecny. If he's asking for 10, then he's gotta go because you can't have 12 to 13 percent of your cap tried up in one player, especially when the club is rebuilding. 

 

At the same time, Konecny has become a core player and pillar on the team. If the Flyers offer an 8 year deal between 8 and $8.5 million a year, I'd be good with that. 

 

EDIT: If the Flyers move on from Konecny, then they have to think that Tippett will be more than capable of replacing what he brings. I'm not sure Tippett is that kind of player.

Edited February 19 by BobbyClarkeFan16

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

It is a rebuild and resigning 2 older D men doesn't make sense and will once again drafting in the 15-20s again and once again prove they refuse to embrace a full on rebuild like many of us feared

Cannot disagree with this. 

Though I will say Seeler's deal is tradeable if someone wants him.

I like Walker and understand the reasoning behind resigning him to 3 years or something, he's already a solid second pairing guy and he's been really good. I don't think he'll coast after getting paid either.  I still think it's risky.

 

I think it comes down to time-line when it comes to these players in particular, who has more value and when?

Do any of the draft picks turn into a set 'em and forget them player in the next 3-5 years?

Does having a few guys who can play but are older help the team develop?

 

If they like Walker that much then why not try to resign him in the off-season after trading him for something?

Or they could treat him like their own rental player...I think Walker brings the best asset back of any of the tradeable vets, maybe Laughton if a team has an injury.  I'd hate to see the management miss an opportunity to sell high for a change.

[mojo1917]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I seen reports the other day that they heard that they'd be happy running it back with this group again I sh it you not

From who?

[RonJeremy]

1 minute ago, mojo1917 said:

From who?

Keith Jones said it in a TV interview. He said even if we trade Seeler and Walker he'd be interested in bringing them back if they didn't sign with the teams they were traded to.

[RonJeremy]

10 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I'd love to get a top 10 pick and young players for Konecny. The chances of that happening? I'm not sure. I suppose we could look at what Jeff Carter got as a basis for a Konecny deal, but there were done extenuating circumstances there. 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what the Flyers should do with Konecny. If he's asking for 10, then he's gotta go because you can't have 12 to 13 percent of your cap tried up in one player, especially when the club is rebuilding. 

 

At the same time, Konecny has become a core player and pillar on the team. If the Flyers offer an 8 year deal between 8 and $8.5 million a year, I'd be good with that. 

 

EDIT: If the Flyers move on from Konecny, then they have to think that Tippett will be more than capable of replacing what he brings. I'm not sure Tippett is that kind of player.

We have some good young skill on RW, Tippett, Foerester, Brink and potentially Tuomalla. If we could trade Konecny for high pick in this draft and get a cant miss center, or for a top young center that's young , in the long run we'd have a more balanced team. No point in having four scoring right wings and no centers to set them up, especially if one RW wants 8 or 9 million. 

[mojo1917]

51 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

He said even if we trade Seeler and Walker he'd be interested in bringing them back if they didn't sign with the teams they were traded to.

I watched Ray and Dregs also.

He did say tough decisions on players would be coming up.

 

The tenor of that interview was not let's run it back with this group.

That wasn't even close to what Jonesy said in that interview. He did say he liked Walker and he did say he'd consider signing him in the off-season as an UFA. He did say he liked the culture shift and the job that Torts has done. 

If somebody's take away from the Ray and Dregs interview was "we like this team and the job is done"... then I don't know what to say.

They might as well skipped wasting their time letting the play head go for 20 minutes and just made-up whatever ******** came to mind. 

 

 

 

 

[radoran]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

But Dany does need to find his center of the future like Holmgren found him

 

Um, no.

 

Holmgren didn't "find a center."

 

Holmgren traded two top six centers and made a career left wing into a center.

 

Oddly enough, that didn't work out.

 

[jammer2]

Not directed at anyone in particular, BUT I find it both appalling and disgusting how a few months of winning Hockey somehow erases 1 playoff series win in 14 years.

 

TRADE ALL ****** THINGS that can someday return the Flyers to an actual top 5 team...LIKE OUR HISTORY DICTATES. Fans that give a **** about Walker and Seeler forget the COMPLETE AND UTTER SHAME OF BEING A LAUGHING STOCK. Those two are tools to reach THE goal...nothing more, nothing less. 

 

 In 2 or 3 years Cooter MIGHT be a serviceable 3rd line checking Center. We don't have a Clarke or Brindy....****, we don't have a Ken Linseman type of Center. All expendable parts should be moved to grind...scrape our way to a 1C. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

Holmgren didn't "find a center."

 

That is why I said I don't think you find that guy in free agency which you left out thar is where he found Danny.

 

[flyerdog]

9M per year may be the going rate...but then it comes down to term and omission of NTC...

 

This is where Danny has to flex...in years past Fletch even Hextall or Holmgren would have done 9M/year x 7 years...with a NTC...and then they are hamstrung....but if the market says 9M/year and the term is 4 years...with no NTC it doesn't seem so bad...and you can still trade him, in a couple of years when he is still relatively young and the return would be beneficial....

 

 

but I agree that they cannot get enamored with this season, or particular players' performances ...and if the right deal comes along for any player...then do the deal...Torts essentially hinted that there may be changes coming that people might not like, but that the blueprint is the most important thing, this season and in future seasons. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

What worries me about all this center stuff is what do Flyers management think a number one center is? Tortorella has gone on record and has said he'd take a guy like Barkov over McDavid. So we know Tortorella loves those defensive acumen good line Barkov and Couturier. Briere seems to like centers that are more skill oriented. Jones send to like those physically imposing centers. It's going to be tough coming to a consensus about what defines a number one center.

 

Here's another thing. Is it possible that the Flyers have their future number one guy in Denver Barkey, or do the senior advisors get antsy because of their size fetish? If there's any doubt and if they feel Barkey is more suited on the wrong, then Briere should look at two centers with the Flyers first round picks. Boisvert and Hage might be those guys. 

 

Free agency is no help either. I mean, Elias Petterson is a free agent, but you know Vancouver will match any offer. Martin Necas or Casey Middlestadt might be available, but at what cost? I mentioned about trading for a guy like Kent Johnson in Columbus, but I'm sure whoever the next GM is will probably want Johnson to have a big role.

 

There's no way to fix the center issue other than draft and hope you nail one. There's definitely no quick fix though. This one is going to be tough to solve.

[RonJeremy]

4 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

What worries me about all this center stuff is what do Flyers management think a number one center is? Tortorella has gone on record and has said he'd take a guy like Barkov over McDavid. So we know Tortorella loves those defensive acumen good line Barkov and Couturier. Briere seems to like centers that are more skill oriented. Jones send to like those physically imposing centers. It's going to be tough coming to a consensus about what defines a number one center.

 

Here's another thing. Is it possible that the Flyers have their future number one guy in Denver Barkey, or do the senior advisors get antsy because of their size fetish? If there's any doubt and if they feel Barkey is more suited on the wrong, then Briere should look at two centers with the Flyers first round picks. Boisvert and Hage might be those guys. 

 

Free agency is no help either. I mean, Elias Petterson is a free agent, but you know Vancouver will match any offer. Martin Necas or Casey Middlestadt might be available, but at what cost? I mentioned about trading for a guy like Kent Johnson in Columbus, but I'm sure whoever the next GM is will probably want Johnson to have a big role.

 

There's no way to fix the center issue other than draft and hope you nail one. There's definitely no quick fix though. This one is going to be tough to solve.

I don’t see a 5 foot 9 ,156 lb guy being anyone’s top center, he could possibly be one of our centers as long as we have have the other prototypical centers.  If  the combined skill set of our top three centers possess a good blend of size, skill, speed , scoring, faceoff ability and play making ,then you are in business . Each center has to bring a different type of game ,so you can compete against any style team. We can’t be one dimensional., not too big and slow, not to small where we get pushed around. It would be great to have three McDavids but if we have three different types of centers who each possess a couple of the key ingredients,then you have balance to go up against anyone.

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I don’t see a 5 foot 9 ,156 lb guy being anyone’s top center

 

Brayden Point says hello.

 

Sure he is 1 inch taller but but has the frame to get as big needs about 15 to catch Point but with a year or two in the AHL

 

Sure he is a winger but he could if any do have it, what it takes to play center with this great coaching (many don't want to admit we seeing going here why they are punching over their weight) in Philly it could be a huge boost.

 

But Matvei Michkov is smaller than both weight wise and Point size height wise 5-10.

 

I'm not saying he can but i also wouldn't count that kid out he has some fire in him.

 

But it is a long shot but he has 2nd line wing sticking potential either way.

 

Remember ever piece you gather you can also move out for a piece you need they are going to have to get creative maybe.

 

I would love to see whole weeks or two games to see how it would look to see Frost with Tippett and Konecny to see how it could maybe works pushing Coots to the 2nd with Joel and Cam but what i would like of Joel and Foerster between Coots.

 

With knowing what could take place next season something like this to start 2024

 

74 Owen Tippett - 48 Morgan Frost - 11 Travis Konecny
86 Joel Farabee - 14 Sean Couturier - 71 Tyson Foerster
27 Noah Cates - 25 Ryan Poehling - 24 Bobby Brink
19 Garnet Hathaway - 91 Elliot Desnoyers - 62 Olle Lycksell

[flyercanuck]

8 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Tortorella has gone on record and has said he'd take a guy like Barkov over McDavid.

 

[JR Ewing]

11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Here's another thing. Is it possible that the Flyers have their future number one guy in Denver Barkey, or do the senior advisors get antsy because of their size fetish? 

 

I strongly doubt it.

 

11 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

There's no way to fix the center issue other than draft and hope you nail one. There's definitely no quick fix though. This one is going to be tough to solve.

 

So much has to swing right in these things. You have to draft the right guy AND hope he doesn't get derailed by injuries, etc, etc, etc.

 

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

Brayden Point says hello.

 

Sure he is 1 inch taller but but has the frame to get as big needs about 15 to catch Point but with a year or two in the AHL

 

Just about the only thing that Denver Barkey has in common with Brayden Point is his size. Point is small but has explosive speed; one of the two or three fastest players in the NHL. I looked up their respective numbers during their respective draft years in junior: Point outscored his next-closest teammate by 35 points. Barkey finshed 3rd in team scoring, 24 points behind the leader.

 

Small guys without a core skill which is elite are destined to be career minor leaguers or, if they catch on for awhile in the NHL, as depth players on league-minimum contracts. Without separation speed or incredible hands or a cannon shot, they're just too easy to neutralize because they're small guys in a big man's sport.

 

If Denver Barkey has a career like Derek Ryan, I would call that a success, given what he has in his toolbox.

[JR Ewing]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

 

Yeah. Torts was roasted alive for those comments, and rightly so. Barkov is a hell of a hockey player, but it was just a silly thing to say.