Who would you Keep?

[mojo1917]

I think the carrots of the 23/24 hockey season are cooked- for the Flyers anyway. I don't see where they're qualifying for the playoffs unless there is divine intervention.

I do think some information has been gathered about some players and whether or not they should be kept for the future or used to acquire some other assets.

There are some guys that I think are just not tradeable and some that after another year will become someone else's problem if they remain in the NHL

I think those players are:

Sean Couturier - he's a favorite of mine, he's also signed until doomsday and has legitimate health questions. He's not tradeable

Cam Atkinson- No one would want him, he's on the payroll for another year

Travis Sanhiem- Perhaps this season has changed the perception of him around the league. He's been very good this year, has been playing through an injury that will likely require surgery, again signed until baby jesus returns at a high cap hit. Not feeling too mobile to me.

Rasmus Ristolainen- Did his mandatory military service end his hockey career? He's got too much $ for too long, but he's big and mean; could he be worth  something in a trade?  By himself signs point to no- as part of a package in a hockey trade...probably.

 

Do you build around or trade for a top pick or top prospect?

Travis Konecny

He too is a favorite of mine. He’s been playing through an injury that will likely require surgery, he’s been really good this season after a nice year last season.  

I feel like I’m good either way. Trade him for a #1 centerman prospect and something else or keep him if the cap hit isn’t cripplilng.

Is he too old to fit the Michkov timeline? maybe, lots of questions and emotion around this player’s future.

 

Guys to build around:

Cam York

 

Guys to build around?:

I like these players and would like to see them remain with the Flyers or in the case of Drysdale I want to see more of him. I think his sample size with the team is too small to make an accurate determination.

Jamie Drysdale

Owen Tippett

Tyson Foerster

Samuel Ersson

Guys I don’t hate but need to see more from

Joel Farabee – picked a bad time to slump, is he learning or is he not made for the moment? Maybe he’s banged up and we’ll find out on locker clean out day. He has skill and had a nice 5/8 of a season.

Bobby Brink- I think his hockey brain is special. I hope he can find a way to be stronger on the puck and that micro second quicker to take action. He finds space and can be good along the walls occasionally.  

WTF to do with this guy?

Morgan Frost- I don’t hate the player anymore, he’s been mostly meh in his Flyers career though. He’s finally found some consistency. For me he needs to produce to be kept around.  I’m ambivalent about him. If he stays fine, if he goes in a hockey trade, fine.

Ronnie Attard- righthand shot, aggressive, can skate has size. I want to see more of him to make a determination. Now is the time.

Ivan Fedotov

 

This is how waivers work young man.

Egor Zamula – was okay for a stretch but wilted since February. Is he learning, does he warrant keeping for that Nick Seeler memorial 7^th defenseman spot?  I think with the other cats in the system I’d rather cut bait with Z.

Meh

Ollie Lyksel

Adam Ginning

These cats can head on back to the SHL and have nice lives.  In each case I think there are players in the system I’d rather see.

 

What would your list be?

Comments and opinions are welcomed.

Edited April 9 by mojo1917
fixed some grammar added Fedotov and Ersson

[flyer4ever]

Playing defence in the modern NHL game is EXTREMELY difficult. I am reluctant to cut bait with any of them. Honestly. My first move is buh bye to the coach. I would like to see a season of seasoning for these young guys both in the show and the AHL with some proper coaching from a development perspective, not from a run them into the ground perspective. Staal and Johnson gone, Seeler gone.

As for the forwards, Tipett, Foerster, Poehling, Hathaway keep. Adios to the rest. Some have value, some not. Nine firsts and seconds in the next 2 drafts. Should be able to find a couple of 3rd or 4th line guys picking 15th or later.

Goalies should be fine unless they keep the coach. In that case better get a veteran or 2. 

If you haven't sensed my sarcasm, I have zero faith that the GM does anything that indicates a proper rebuild. If the playoffs was the goal this deadline, why didn't he get a goalie at the deadline? This season has just been more of the same old dysfunction in Flyer junction. #1 goalie gone. #1 prospect gone. Lottery pick in the draft gone. Time for golf.

[mojo1917]

@flyer4ever

I forgot about Poeling and Hathaway. I liked watching those guys this year. They're cheap and not holding anyone back. 

[Poulin20]

19 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

Playing defence in the modern NHL game is EXTREMELY difficult. I am reluctant to cut bait with any of them. Honestly. My first move is buh bye to the coach. I would like to see a season of seasoning for these young guys both in the show and the AHL with some proper coaching from a development perspective, not from a run them into the ground perspective. Staal and Johnson gone, Seeler gone.

As for the forwards, Tipett, Foerster, Poehling, Hathaway keep. Adios to the rest. Some have value, some not. Nine firsts and seconds in the next 2 drafts. Should be able to find a couple of 3rd or 4th line guys picking 15th or later.

Goalies should be fine unless they keep the coach. In that case better get a veteran or 2. 

If you haven't sensed my sarcasm, I have zero faith that the GM does anything that indicates a proper rebuild. If the playoffs was the goal this deadline, why didn't he get a goalie at the deadline? This season has just been more of the same old dysfunction in Flyer junction. #1 goalie gone. #1 prospect gone. Lottery pick in the draft gone. Time for golf.

I tell ya, you guys are doing my wallet a big favor as these first posts make me not even want to explore a partial game plan for next year .

[flyercanuck]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

I think the carrots of the 23/24 hockey season are cooked- for the Flyers anyway. I don't see where they're qualifying for the playoffs unless there is divine intervention.

I do think some information has been gathered about some players and whether or not they should be kept for the future or used to acquire some other assets.

There are some guys that I think are just not tradeable and some that after another year will become someone else's problem if they remain in the NHL

I think those players are:

Sean Couturier - he's a favorite of mine, he's also signed until doomsday and has legitimate health questions. He's not tradeable

Cam Atkinson- No one would want him, he's on the payroll for another year

Travis Sanhiem- Perhaps this season has changed the perception of him around the league. He's been very good this year, has been playing through an injury that will likely require surgery, again signed until baby jesus returns at a high cap hit. Not feeling too mobile to me.

Rasmus Ristolainen- Did his mandatory military service end his hockey career? He's got too much $ for too long, but he's big and mean; could he be worth  something in a trade?  By himself signs point to no- as part of a package in a hockey trade...probably.

 

Do you build around or trade for a top pick or top prospect?

Travis Konecny

He too is a favorite of mine. He’s been playing through an injury that will likely require surgery, he’s been really good this season after a nice year last season.  

I feel like I’m good either way. Trade him for a #1 centerman prospect and something else or keep him if the cap hit isn’t cripplilng.

Is he too old to fit the Michkov timeline? maybe, lots of questions and emotion around this player’s future.

 

Guys to build around:

Cam York

 

Guys to build around?:

I like these players and would like to see them remain with the Flyers or in the case of Drysdale I want to see more of him. I think his sample size with the team is too small to make an accurate determination.

Jamie Drysdale

Owen Tippett

Tyson Foerster

Samuel Ersson

Guys I don’t hate but need to see more from

Joel Farabee – picked a bad time to slump, is he learning or is he not made for the moment? Maybe he’s banged up and we’ll find out on locker clean out day. He has skill and had a nice 5/8 of a season.

Bobby Brink- I think his hockey brain is special. I hope he can find a way to be stronger on the puck and that micro second quicker to take action. He finds space and can be good along the walls occasionally.  

WTF to do with this guy?

Morgan Frost- I don’t hate the player anymore, he’s been mostly meh in his Flyers career though. He’s finally found some consistency. For me he needs to produce to be kept around.  I’m ambivalent about him. If he stays fine, if he goes in a hockey trade, fine.

Ronnie Attard- righthand shot, aggressive, can skate has size. I want to see more of him to make a determination. Now is the time.

Ivan Fedotov

 

This is how waivers work young man.

Egor Zamula – was okay for a stretch but wilted since February. Is he learning, does he warrant keeping for that Nick Seeler memorial 7^th defenseman spot?  I think with the other cats in the system I’d rather cut bait with Z.

Meh

Ollie Lyksel

Adam Ginning

These cats can head on back to the SHL and have nice lives.  In each case I think there are players in the system I’d rather see.

 

What would your list be?

Comments and opinions are welcomed.

 

I've always like guys who play both ends, so Couturier has been a favorite. But Fletcher basically made him have zero, or negative worth. If I could get something for him I'd deal him. But if you can't, he's a good guy for the youth to learn from. Atkinson and Ristolainen can be had for anyone who wants them free. Sanheim is our best defenceman. He's also 28. Blow the doors off me and he's gone. His game should be good for another 5 or 6 years though, it certainly isn't physical. His contract isn't bad. Stay or go is fine, just don't give him away.

 

Farabee, Brink and Frost are all young enough to keep as some depth to what we add. Again, if something is offered that seems like an upgrade, or lateral at a position of weakness, go for it. Attard is decent, but won't bring much in a trade and is young enough to hang on to. Fedotov might be backup material. I'd keep drafting goalies though. 

 

I've got a soft spot for Foerster and I always will. I like Ersson, but think he's a backup, or at best a 50/50 goalie...and I really don't want that. We NEED a goalie. Drysdale is fun to watch, when healthy. Man that's a big ? Him and Tippett I'm on the fence with both. If someone offered what I though was more value, I'd trade. I'd just hate to see Drysdale always injured, and Tippett has blinders on a lot of the time. Neither needs to go though.

 

The other three are just depth that you can pick up anywhere. 

 

I like Poehling. Hathaway is fine, maybe trade deadline material.

 

You said what I'm thinking with Konecny. I'd be sad to see him go, but it's probably for the better if you're really trying to build a championship team in a few years.

Edited April 9 by flyercanuck

[mojo1917]

33 minutes ago, flyer4ever said:

I have zero faith that the GM does anything that indicates a proper rebuild.

What would constitute a proper rebuild iyo?

Trading Konecny?

It seems to me the previous guy has hamstrung the new guys with some of the contracts he offered.

I don't know how a Couturier contract would get moved for instance.

 

Also, i agree that this management group won't go full Blackhawk. I'd be shocked if they did. 

 

 

[flyerdog]

Keep Tyson, Brink, Drysdale, Tippett, Sanheim, Poehling

 

the rest listen to offers, even York...he has not shown yet that he is a consistent top line D-Man, Sanheim has outplayed him and York was a high 1st rounder...I don't expect him to be Makar, but he should be showing more...

 

Brink has all the tools, he just lacks size, hate for him to be the one that got away, (yet again...), get him some anabolics and he should improve...

 

Frost is ok as a 3rd liner, even 2nd on occasion, but not much more than that...keep him if he's cheap, or sign and trade

 

the rest...listen to offers....

 

 

[mojo1917]

15 minutes ago, flyerdog said:

even York...he has not shown yet that he is a consistent top line D-Man

He's 23 this is his second NHL season.

He's played 30 minutes a night since December for "reasons" but one of them is he's earned them.

He does that stick on puck thing about as well as I've seen anyone in a Flyers uniform do it since...Dejardains? I don't think he's done developing either.

We see that player differently. 

But i appreciate your perspective.

Edited April 9 by mojo1917

[FD19372]

Keepers

 

Couturier

Tippett

Foerster

Farabee

Brink

Seeler

Drysdale

Poehling

Hathaway

Sanheim

Ersson (maybe)..though I'm going to look for a starter this off-season.

 

If I can get a boatload for players like TK or Risto, I'd do it. Talk Atkinson into retirement. I hope Briere can find a way to address their cap situation. I'm tired of having no money available to improve the team, significantly. Damn..it would have been nice to see Michkov in Orange and Black, next season.

[flyercanuck]

36 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

If I can get a boatload for players like TK or Risto, I'd do it.

 

Oh you'd get a nice haul for Konecny.....Ristolainen? You're kidding right? If anyone offers anything.....SOLD!  I'd happily GIVE him away.

[FD19372]

16 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Oh you'd get a nice haul for Konecny.....Ristolainen? You're kidding right? If anyone offers anything.....SOLD!  I'd happily GIVE him away.

There were rumors that Toronto and Vancouver would give up a first rounder for Risto at this past trade deadline..(not a bad haul, ehh?) , but the Flyers would have to retain 25% of his salary. Here we go again, with that retaining salary crap, because they overpay for players. 

Edited April 9 by FD19372

[flyercanuck]

10 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

There were rumors that Toronto and Vancouver would give up a first rounder for Risto at this past trade deadline..(not a bad haul, ehh?) , but the Flyers would have to retain 25% of his salary. Here we go again, with that retaining salary crap, because they overpay for players. 

 

I'd retain for a 1st, no problem We don't NEED the salary right now, we NEED talent. 

 

I just don't believe anyone offered a 1st for him. Then again, I still don't believe anyone would hire Chuck Fletcher. Or that anyone would give up what he did for a bum like Risto.

[radoran]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Also, i agree that this management group won't go full Blackhawk. I'd be shocked if they did. 

 

I'd be shocked if they did, too.

 

So, Chicago has three Cups this century and just added their second #1 overall amongst a boatload of high round picks.

 

The Flyers... might make the playoffs this season and have a potential superstar that might come over in two years with a couple mid to late firsts...

 

We'll pin this and see where these franchises have been in five years, shall we?

 

 

(I am aware of the buts and the reasons and that draft picks don't always and etc... We'll see where this goes over the next five years, eh?)

Edited April 9 by radoran

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

So, Chicago has three two Cups this century and just added their second #1 overall amongst a boatload of high round picks.

 

FIFY

 

[flyer4ever]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

What would constitute a proper rebuild iyo?

Trading Konecny?

It seems to me the previous guy has hamstrung the new guys with some of the contracts he offered.

I don't know how a Couturier contract would get moved for instance.

 

Also, i agree that this management group won't go full Blackhawk. I'd be shocked if they did. 

 

 

IMHO, 2 things need to happen for the mediocrity to end. First they need to get out from under the albatross contracts. 2nd, they need 2 or 3 lottery drafts to get some high end talent. It doesn't have to be a tank, and if it was who cares. The last 14 years have been the worst in franchise history. The cupboards need to be emptied of old and overpaid slow and replaced with young and fast and a bit of snarl. 

I am a big fan of Koenecny, however his window is closing and the proper asset management move is to trade him. Otherwise you are looking at another bad contract 3 years from now. 

I have been around young hockey players for over 50 years, and as time has gone on, our youth has had less and less respect for seniority and experience. I say this as a preface to this. I don't think keeping a veteran so called leadership presence is as valuable as it once was. Young people today need to see you walk the walk, the talk doesn't do it. I don't believe Couturier and Atkinson are effective at all, I think the young guys get more out of Hathaway and Laughton. Just my opinion.

I like the Blackhawk model from a decade ago. Build a team of young studs, get a great generational leader in Johnathan Toews, and grow it together. 

Thats the rebuild model I would like to see.

[SCFlyguy]

8 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I do think some information has been gathered about some players and whether or not they should be kept for the future or used to acquire some other assets.

None that wasn't apparent on the first day of the season my friend.

 

The only ones who didn't know it were in the front office and on this board.

[SCFlyguy]

The organization wasted another season and another deadline not doing the things that have to be done.

The house has had termites in it for 30 years.  You can put up wallpaper or knock it down and start over.

 

The clock on the rebuild doesn't start until they do.

[SCFlyguy]

8 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

Is he too old to fit the Michkov timeline?

Yes.

[SCFlyguy]

4 hours ago, flyer4ever said:

IMHO, 2 things need to happen for the mediocrity to end. First they need to get out from under the albatross contracts.

They won't be able to get out from under the albatross contracts (mainly Couturier) until the contract is over.  What needs to happen is stop giving out the albatross contracts.

 

If they re-sign Konecny, he will be an albatross contract.

 

 

[icehole]

I'm sorry, but why is everyone "keeping" Couturier? To me, he seems like the best example of getting rid of a big name player, and the team plays better without him. I don't think he should be captain and I don't think he's been a leader at all. I think he gets respect (and probably too much of it) for playing a two way game. Not many do that, so they make a big deal of it when someone does.  If he had more skill and aggression on the offensive side, he wouldn't have to worry so much about playing a two way game.

 

The only way I keep him is if I can't get anything for him. First through third round pick, and we don't retain salary or anything like that, I would send him away.

 

This isn't a team that has any "must keep" players, so you listen to any offers. I'd be hesitant on trading Forster, Tippett, and Drysdale, but that's about it.

[mojo1917]

4 minutes ago, icehole said:

I'm sorry, but why is everyone "keeping" Couturier? To me, he seems like the best example of getting rid of a big name player, and the team plays better without him. I don't think he should be captain and I don't think he's been a leader at all. I think he gets respect (and probably too much of it) for playing a two way game. Not many do that, so they make a big deal of it when someone does.  If he had more skill and aggression on the offensive side, he wouldn't have to worry so much about playing a two way game.

 

The only way I keep him is if I can't get anything for him. First through third round pick, and we don't retain salary or anything like that, I would send him away.

 

This isn't a team that has any "must keep" players, so you listen to any offers. I'd be hesitant on trading Forster, Tippett, and Drysdale, but that's about it.

He is signed for 7 more years at 7+m .aav, he has injury concerns and wore down in his first full season back from those injuries. 

 

Who would take that contract?

That's why he's a keeper. 

Maybe we should call him a nobody wants-er?

On a non-Fletchered team he would be a "first to go". 

[thegx.ca]

Keep Torts...the rest don't even matter...the players are always to blame for bad seasons seriously...

[icehole]

3 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

He is signed for 7 more years at 7+m .aav, he has injury concerns and wore down in his first full season back from those injuries. 

 

Who would take that contract?

That's why he's a keeper. 

Maybe we should call him a nobody wants-er?

On a non-Fletchered team he would be a "first to go". 

That's fair, but I wouldn't consider that a keeper. I look at that more like we're stuck with a guy with a big contract who stunts this team's progress. So yes, let's put him under the "nobody want-ers" list instead the keeper list. I'm listening to any offers and maybe even throwing his name out there though if I'm Danny.

[mojo1917]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

If he had more skill and aggression on the offensive side, he wouldn't have to worry so much about playing a two way game.

This is not an accurate statement. 

 

True story he went to the bosses and said, I want more offensive responsibility and 2 years later he won a Selke trophy.

Before he had the back injuries he was a stud.

His skating was not great, but he scored, made his linemates better and when he was on the ice the Flyers had the puck and were creating scoring chances. 

Had his back injuries not happened, he would definitely be a valuable asset to jump start a rebuild. 

That's not where we are though.

 

[radoran]

At this point they still don't need anyone over the age of 25.

 

They're stuck with some, but they won't win a Championship with them.