Carle to get 5mill a year

[jammer2]

@Podein25 I figured out a long time ago, Coburn will never be a gritty nasty player. As much as we all wanted him to be, the size and frame just do not translate to physicality. I lost hope a few years ago....lol.

[Podein25]

@jammer2

Agreed. As to the question at hand, I think Coburn and Carle are pretty even in value. I'm gonna be disappointed in him if he chooses to leave, but maybe that means Homer will actually land Suter?

Have a great Canada Day buddy! I'm off to the pub to trash talk the Leafs and Habs fans and boo Cindy's contract extension.

[jammer2]

@Podein25 You too! Have a few for me!!

[Polaris922]

Letang's speed almost always makes up for when he get's out of position trying to be an overly physical player, which he is not, he's not a sissy, but he's not built to be a bruiser there are times especially in atlantic division games where he's trying to really paste someone and gets burned. he's fine in his own end but he's no rob scuderi, now that guy is a defensive ace.

if the flyers don't resign carle it will probably be because there is something better in the works. Carle is a fine player and i'm a fan/defender here, but if he seeks his fortune elsewhere our team will be fine, it may mean the forwards need to pay more attention to defensive hockey to make up for his skating but our ship is not sunk if he is no longer a flyer.

I would not sign him at 5.5 & I would have to think really hard if he wants 5 a year, I think for that kind of money the player needs to be bullet proof, no weaknesses in their game and though Carle's shortcomings aren't fatal they do exist; his shot and inability or unwillingness to play through contact in his end, have proven costly. do his positives out weigh the shortcomings at 5 million a year for 4-6 years ? that is a difficult question to answer.

I think Letang is better defensively than Scuderi myself. His mobility and willingness to chase back when he IS caught out of position are critical to his success. Nobody in the league can skate like Letang that I have seen. At the skills competition he nearly outskates the forwards with his backwards time trials. If you watched him skate all year, and how he uses his skill to play defense you'd probably agree. Scuderi was minus 9 this season in 82 games, Letang was plus 21 in only 51 games, and he has a higher impact on the win/loss record of the Pens that Malkin OR Crosby individually. I think he's very underrated by competition in the league for the most part. Now that Lidstrom is gone, expect to see Letang in the Norris Trophy talk a LOT in coming years.

I didn't go so far as to say your ship is sunk, just that your defensive corps will suffer. He may not be a physical defenseman by any means, but he leads your team in shots blocked, and is the only finesse skater you have back there in my eyes. Timonen had his day, but now he's just a steady veteran, middle of the pack kind of D-man. Matter of fact, Carle and he are pretty much the exact same on shots 130 vs 132, and shooting % 3.1 vs 3.0. Difference is Timo is plus 8 and Carle is plus 4. Either way, I again assure you that from a competitor's perspective, the only D-man you guys have that is dangerous on the breakout is Carle. Timonen used to be, but not anymore. THAT is where you will suffer, getting good first passes out of your zone. The Coburns and Grossman's can more than play physical D, you just have a benefit in Carle with his skating and puck handling abilities.

I'm sure he is a team priority but the team can only do so much. Carle and his agent see the market for D-men this summer and they must feel they're in a position of strength. Can't really blame them for wanting to see what FA brings their way... I just hope the Flyers have an existing offer for him that's at least $5mil/season. Five million a season is a significant "line in the sand" for NHL players - to make $5mil or more - and I bet Carle wants that.

$4.75 probably won't cut it. It's not the 250 grand it's the bragging rights, the status that comes with making $5mil.

I agree he will want at least $5 mil cuz that's what Wideman is getting and Wideman isn't worth it in my opinion. I don't know if you guys have the cap space to go after Suter. I admit though I've become confused trying to follow all of the cap space discussions here as it seems to go up and down depending on who's posting it. A lot of that has to do with guesses about RFA's and what not too.

Nobody can even come close to his diving ability...not even Malkin.....

The guy is a finesse skater. I'm not saying he's not guilty here and there, but I would say he is no more guilty than Briere.. or Hartnell... or Timonen... but every team has them. So be it.

Carle is being overrated , he can skate but he's a turnover machine and very passive..doesn't like physical contact at all...

I agree about the physical contact. Some D-men just aren't physical players but can still do well. I disagree about the turnovers though. Where is that article you guys all posted about Carle's stats and why he is important for the Flyers to sign? anybody?? I know I read that here.

I agree entirely. It's very frustrating. I wonder how many people actually saw more than a dozen Suter games last two seasons combined.

I would give up to 5.5m for Carle (target 5m), but no more than 6m for Suter. Garrison 4m tops, ideally 3.5m. No deals longer than 5 yrs, Garrison 4 max.

Limited NTC for Carle or Suter. Not sure if there is a no-waive limited NMC option (limit 15 teams for trading).

The grass is always greener. I agree about your values for them all though. I think you're pretty spot on there for what they'll be after.

[Polaris922]

The realities of the market now compared to when Coburn signed are different.

Plus Coburn is a great defensive guy, but not much on the puck movement and scoring department. Defensemen who excel at just defense and don't score don't seem to be as valued MOST of the time. There are exceptions, but the general rule is points add up to dollars.

[doom88]

Plus Coburn is a great defensive guy, but not much on the puck movement and scoring department. Defensemen who excel at just defense and don't score don't seem to be as valued MOST of the time. There are exceptions, but the general rule is points add up to dollars.

It saddens me to keep agreeing with you. Btw, Coburn passes well, but that offense (or nastiness consistently) never came back after that face issue.

[flyerrod]

@Polaris922 Letang has brought the Soccer Dive to the NHL. I will give you Briere is a diver although no where near the "breck girl"but Timmo and Hartnell...Pffffftttt. Enjoy Sidney's Contract for the next 12 YEARS!!!, I will be surprised if he is able to do 4 years before he becomes a drooling idiot....

[hf101]

@doom88 Maybe somebody else can help me out here. I distinctly remember Carle making huge defensive gaffs at the end of back to back games in November. I remember swearing his name out loud....lol. This article however, does not back up my recollections....anyone else remember these early to mid Nov meltdowns....or am I just piped?

from BSH

I went through the game logs and looked at all 55 of Carle's giveaways and saw if they directly led to goals. It turns out that only 5 of them did. I don't know if this is a high or low ratio, but regardless only 9% of Carle's turnovers lead to goals.

Out of these 5, how many of them led to game winning goals for the other team? Just one, in the March 26th game against Tampa Bay, when Carle's turnover led to the goal that gave the

Lightning

a 4-2 lead, eventually leading to them winning 5-3. All five of the games where a Carle turnover led to a goal did lead to a loss. One of which was the 9-8 anomaly vs. Winnipeg in October, and another one was a shootout loss to New Jersey in November.

[JackStraw]

It saddens me to keep agreeing with you. Btw, Coburn passes well, but that offense (or nastiness consistently) never came back after that face issue.

Neither offense nor nastiness were ever there, not in Coburn's game. People keep saying that he was changed somehow after that injury, but he never had offensive skills and (was not projected to have them when he was a junior either) and never played with a mean streak. He plays pretty much the same way he always has (since he became a Flyer at least) only he's better now.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922 Letang has brought the Soccer Dive to the NHL. I will give you Briere is a diver although no where near the "breck girl"but Timmo and Hartnell...Pffffftttt. Enjoy Sidney's Contract for the next 12 YEARS!!!, I will be surprised if he is able to do 4 years before he becomes a drooling idiot....

You're a very angry person. I'll love 12 years of watching someone you clearly hate so much torturing other teams in the league. I also wish nothing but health to ANY player... Even nose dive in the crease trying to draw crosscheck penalties Hartnell. Timo goes down as readily as Letang because he's also a finesse skater, and Contact throws those guys a lot. I like Timo... Even used him for years in fantasy hockey, but a spade is a spade. No need to get angry about it all.

[Polaris922]

from BSH

Great find! Heck of a stat to find!

[sarsippius]

All divers and head snappers should receive a one game suspension for the first offense, three for the second offense, and ten for every one thereafter. Every play of every game is reviewed in Toronto, blatant p*say plays are easy enough to spot on tape.

This has nothing to do with Crosby's contract, but put that rule in play and Polaris and rod's exchange above never happens ....and Malkin and LeTang will stop embarrassing their team and the league, BAZING!!!!!

[flyerrod]

All divers and head snappers should receive a one game suspension for the first offense, three for the second offense, and ten for every one thereafter. Every play of every game is reviewed in Toronto, blatant p*say plays are easy enough to spot on tape.

This has nothing to do with Crosby's contract, but put that rule in play and Polaris and rod's exchange above never happens ....and Malkin and LeTang will stop embarrassing their team and the league, BAZING!!!!!

In all fairness, Briere's name should join Malkin and Letang for embarrassing divers. Soccer dives in Hockey makes me want to puke....

[sarsippius]

In all fairness, Briere's name should join Malkin and Letang for embarrassing divers. Soccer dives in Hockey makes me want to puke....

Oh I agree 100% with that, Briere is one of the biggest actors in league. The league should be embarrassed that fans can see this yet nothing is done about it

[jammer2]

@sarsippius Really all 3 players we are talking about have elite skill. There is no reason to have this *unmanly* gesture in their repertoire. I don't know how Europeans do it...having their heroes thrash around on the ground like little panzies. Could you imagine Gordie Howe rolling around on the ice like he was shot?....HA HA!! The fact the real fans hate it gives me hope....that our game will not be tarnished in the future. We really don't have much room to talk, Bill Barber may not have invented it, but used the dive through his whole career....shameful...really.

[sarsippius]

@jammer2

It is an amazing contrast isn't it? Such a girlish act being committed by men who by defintion are tough....I mean even the meekest guy in the NHL is tougher than the average rockhead at the gym. Good point on Barber, Flyer fans tend to forget he was a skilled flopper

[Polaris922]

My issue with the comments made has nothing to do with diving, Crosby or the Pens. As pointed out everyone has them and an opinion to go with them. My issue is that he doesn't post his opinion without feeling the need to insult me as he does it. I post here to debate hockey topics and intelligent discussion about the sport. The personal insults are just childish and take away from the discussion. So I replied saying as much and get more of the same. I'll gladly discuss Letang's diving, or Hartnell's or anybody else's... I just prefer to do it without telling you you're all idiots or some other stereotypical remark because you follow a different team or sometimes see things through orange and black as I can in black and gold.

[Polaris922]

As to the point, I like the review it and suspend it idea. But would the league ever seriously consider it?

[flyerrod]

My issue with the comments made has nothing to do with diving, Crosby or the Pens. As pointed out everyone has them and an opinion to go with them. My issue is that he doesn't post his opinion without feeling the need to insult me as he does it.

OK, I have been accused of calling Polaris names and being mean. The one post that I called him Einstein on has been removed(by someone not me). Reading through my posts to him, I have not insulted him once (until he called me a 5th grader that gives all philly fans a bad rep) so who started the name calling? This Carle thread has been hijacked once again by a Penguin sycophant (sorry descriptive term not meant to be insulting). Does the name Buffalo Rick mean anything to anyone? . Whoever the mod is that removed my post, send me a message as to where you think I was over the line (It was not).

[flyercanuck]

Polaris is one of the best non-Flyer fan posters on this board. He's pretty good at taking the anti-Pen abuse. I hope none of it gets personal,,,it's good to have fans of other teams here.

As for Carle, I hope he stays, but i also wouldn't pay a nickle over 5.

[Mad Dog]

Neither offense nor nastiness were ever there, not in Coburn's game.

Yep. And I hope Luke Schenn brings at least *that* element with him.

But I start getting more concerned now with with the lack of offense from the back end now that Carle is gone. Like him or not, he was our best offensive defenseman after Pronger was gone for the season. Healthy Meszaros hopefully will supply some of that offense, but it's not really his game per se. And I am not sure how much Timonen has left in him..... not much, I am afraid.

And this is why I don't get why the Flyers seem to be concentrating on players like Bobby Ryan or Nash. I'd love to have either of them, of course, but that's not what the Flyes should be working on right now. They should be in negotatiations with Phoenix to bring Keith Yandle here. It seems to me teams are asking for B. Schenn in all these negotiations. If you really have to give up Schenn - which I would be very upset if they do - at least give him up as part of a trade to upgrade the area that really needs upgrading.... and then sign some mid-range player through either free agency or make a trade. I know we still need to repalce Jagr adn JVR, but in my opinion, the defense is where we are hurting much more.

[terp]

Jason Garrison off the board; 6 years $4.6MM cap hit. Carle will probably sign somewhere tomorrow.

[jammer2]

@terp WOW, Carle must be doing cartwhells off the Garrison contract..if Jason is worth 4.6, Carle is worth 7...LMAO!!

[terp]

@terp WOW, Carle must be doing cartwhells off the Garrison contract..if Jason is worth 4.6, Carle is worth 7...LMAO!!

I'll bet Carle will sign a frontloaded 6 year deal at $5MM.

[mojo1917]

It has been a good day for Mr Carle for sure.