Timonen Questions Team

[radoran]

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20130328_Flyers_could_use_some_answers.html

STANDING IN the doorway of the locker room with a look that was equal parts anger, bitterness and frustration, Kimmo Timonen had a plan to try to figure out exactly why his teammates failed to show up for Tuesday night's playoff game.

Well, it was the closest the Flyers will get to a playoff game this year, anyway.

"We should go around the room and ask why," Timonen said, with a finger motioning through each stall of the locker room. "I don't know. But we need to find answers."

It was almost as if Timonen was intimating that there is no sheriff to police the Flyers' consistently poor play this season.

Coach Peter Laviolette seemed to be out of answers on Wednesday, especially on the subject of individual accountability, after guiding his team through a 30-minute practice.

If the coach can't make players accountable, who can?

And, where are the answers from the guy who's got the responsibility to be the sheriff for the players?

No, not Jake Voracek:

Jake Voracek said he wanted it noted that he did not show up for the first period. "There's no excuse for that," said Voracek, the Flyers' leading scorer. "By the time I got into it, it was the third period and it was too late."

If you're not doing your job, return the money, boys.

We need more than "oh, gosh, I dunno".

[Digityman]

Holy hell.

[Samifan]

Kimmo calling out players or pointing fingers is the exact reason he should have been named Captain this season instead of rushing Giroux. We all know that G is the best player on the team and on-ice leader but that does not make him a strong off-ice leader.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Samifan

[ruxpin]

That's truly disturbing. I mean, it's obvious, but the quotes and their implications are disturbing. Jake's, in particular. How do you not show up for the first period? The act, and then the matter-of-face acknowledgment, is mindbedoggling.

Maybe they should amnesty Briere or Bryz or something.

[brelic]

Kimmo is great. He's never one to mince words. Even then, I don't know if he'd be a great captain. Does he do the same in the lockerroom? From what I gather, Pronger was not afraid of challenging teammates. What about Kimmo?

Anyway, that ship has sailed, and for better or worse, Giroux will be captain until he's run out of town - which I hope *never* happens!

But, you know, I wonder how much of what they say is just cliche to get the reporters off their backs? Let's face it, hockey journalists ask dumb questions, and they get dumb, canned, and cliche answers.

I do not believe for one second that a guy like Jake, or Claude, or whomever, just "doesn't show up for a period". Didn't Read say it best the other day??? If an NHL player is not ready for a game, they can go play in the AHL or ECHL.

I mean, c'mon, these guys are ready to play every single time they hit the ice. THe hard truth is that this team, this group of 20+ players, is just not that good. THAT"S what explains our losses, poor judgment, blown leads, inability to defend, etc. The team is not that good.

But they can't just *say* that, can they? That would be an indictment of their teammates, the coach, the GM, and really, the organization. Biting the hand that feeds you.

Seems pretty simple to me, no?

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, lol!

[MaineFlyFan]

I had a REALLY bad feeling about this season from Game 1. I just could not get excited about the 2013 NHL season for some reason. was REALLY pissed about the CBA bullshit and was ready to boycott the season.....

WISH I HAD.....Loosing is one thing. It's HOW you loose that matters. I can tolerate loosing......I cannot tolerate what I saw Tuesday night and the coments being made by players. I'm a die hard fan, but the Flyers have lost my support this season. I could care less what happens for here on out.....I just feel bad for guys like Wayne simmonds, Kimmo, Read, and even Voracheck (tuesday's game and comments aside)....guys who appear to be showing up and playing HARD every night.....If I were their temamates I would not be able to look them in the eye. And Bryz has at least given us a chance to win in 90% of the games this year. WE'RE SCORING GOALS WITH OUR NECKS AND FEET PEOPLE!!!!! There is a GLARING problem on this team and I do not think it is in Goal......

We're at rock bottom. Only one way to go. I'm simply excited to see what we can do in the offseason to fix this team.....Other than that, Giroux should crawl into a corner and weep.....I really thought he had more heart than this. Where is the Giroux from Game one of the Pens series last year. I Never saw that Giroux ONCE this year....not once.

[MaineFlyFan]

Sorry....but I'm pretty upset. Flyers hockey is really the only sport I truly comit myself to every year....And I feel like I've been betrayed by the very players and managment that I once supported unconditinoally.

[MaineFlyFan]

Yes Brelic, I thnk your over-simplyfying. (no offence.)

No way our players aren't "good enough" hockey players!! Hartnell was 6th in the leauge in Goals last year!!! Giroux in top 3 scorers!! All-star defencemen in Kimmo and another two/three very good D-men in Grossman and Schenn.....and MAYBE coburn if he can get out of his own way!!!

Simonds play speaks for itself, not a single team in the NHL that wouldn't take that guy.....Brierre is (or should I say WAS) a damn good hockey player in my opnion too.....What about B. Schen being one of if not THE top prospects in the leauge when we accquired him?!?! Where all those pro scouts wrong?? Couts I'm still not sure of....Read is a very servicable 2nd/3rd liner......Talbot is a HUGE role player (penalty kill/two way game)....Rinaldo might be the BEST physical palyer in the leauge right now....watching him "run aorund" out there has been AWESOME!...cuz he's doing it smart and hitting everything that moves and forechecking like a MAD MAN!!

We have PLENTY of talent on this team....and to ME, thats what makes this lossing season SO VERY UNACCEPTABLE!

You wanna say the Flordia Panthers are at the bottom cuz they just aren't that good of a team, I'd agree with you ALL DAY.....but not the Flyers....

[MaineFlyFan]

Oaky....I should really try to do some actual work today before my boss gets in.

See....I have to actually DO MY JOB everyday or I get fired.....not in the Flyers Organization apparently.

[DaGreatGazoo]

It was almost as if Timonen was intimating that there is no sheriff to police the Flyers' consistently poor play this season.

Sorry, boys..I'm not giving Kimmo a pass here. If it's that *****g bad...speak up! Why can't he be that sheriff??He's wears a letter...he's supposed to be a leader as well. Well, act like it in the room and speak up. Maybe he has, but there hasn't been one sniff of that happening this year, and the fact he's spouting off in the media about that, tells me he hasn't.

If Richards or Lindros said what Kimmo just did to the media...people would be killing them for "not keeping it in the room". Kimmo does it, and he's lauded as a hero? Ridiculous.

[radoran]

I do not believe for one second that a guy like Jake, or Claude, or whomever, just "doesn't show up for a period". Didn't Read say it best the other day??? If an NHL player is not ready for a game, they can go play in the AHL or ECHL.

I mean, c'mon, these guys are ready to play every single time they hit the ice. THe hard truth is that this team, this group of 20+ players, is just not that good. THAT"S what explains our losses, poor judgment, blown leads, inability to defend, etc. The team is not that good.

But they can't just *say* that, can they? That would be an indictment of their teammates, the coach, the GM, and really, the organization. Biting the hand that feeds you.

Seems pretty simple to me, no?

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, lol!

Except that Jake SAID EXACTLY THAT HE DIDN'T SHOW UP FOR THE FIRST TWO PERIODS.

Hartnell said the team completely failed to show up "for the biggest game of [some of their] careers."

How is that "ready to play every time they hit the ice"?

This team learned they could phone it in and not suffer any consequences. No one has held them accountable. Not the coach. Not the GM. Not the captain. Not the assistants. Not the other players (even now, saying they aren't being held accountable). Not the Ice Girls. Not the zamboni driver.

No one.

YOU ARE MAKING AT LEAST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS - IF NOT MILLIONS - OF DOLLARS TO PLAY A FREAKING GAME. HOLD YOUR FREAKING SELF ACCOUNTABLE.

"Oh, but the goalie gave me a sad when he let a goal in after I turned the puck over and didn't backcheck."

Pathetic.

[radoran]

Sorry, boys..I'm not giving Kimmo a pass here. If it's that *****g bad...speak up! Why can't he be that sheriff??He's wears a letter...he's supposed to be a leader as well. Well, act like it in the room and speak up. Maybe he has, but there hasn't been one sniff of that happening this year, and the fact he's spouting off in the media about that, tells me he hasn't.

If Richards or Lindros said what Kimmo just did to the media...people would be killing them for "not keeping it in the room". Kimmo does it, and he's lauded as a hero? Ridiculous.

He's not a hero. He's as accountable as anyone else. And isn't living up to it.

Also, the "sheriff" line was a paraphrase from Seravalli.

Moreover, it's not just Timonen. Voracek and Read are quoted in the article. Voracek flat out said he didn't show up for two periods against the Rags. Read said he should be a healthy scratch.

Hartnell said the whole team didn't show up "for the biggest game of [some of their] careers."

Nobody's getting "a pass." Nobody is "a hero."

Everyone is admitting they have no compete, no drive and no jam, jelly or marmalade.

WHY THE HELL NOT?

[mojo1917]

wow , what Jake said seems alarming but i wonder if it is a language thing,

Having played a lot of team sports there have been times when i was bad at the beginning of the game but then figured out how to be effective by the end of it and vice versa, sometimes you're off, at the start. i wonder and hope that's what he was getting at. i think he's been one of the best players on the team this year and i haven't remembered thinking he's ever dogged it in our sweater. i hope he just "didn't have the right words" in the translation, and wasn't sparking up in the afternoon and had to wait for his high to wear off.

[brelic]

Except that Jake SAID EXACTLY THAT HE DIDN'T SHOW UP FOR THE FIRST TWO PERIODS.

Hartnell said the team completely failed to show up "for the biggest game of [some of their] careers."

How is that "ready to play every time they hit the ice"?

If you read the paragraph BEFORE what you quoted, I wonder whether or not players just give cliche, canned answers because that's just how they've been taught to respond to reporters. Seriously, if you really look at quotes, they say absolutely nothing. There's no substance whatsoever; it's hardly worth printing. EXCEPT, fans have come to expect a rapport with the players they're supporting, and reporters keep asking the same leading questions like "Do you think you lost tonight because [x]?".

So, all I'm wondering is if Jake just said that because, well, that's what he was taught to say. Does he really believe in the first period that, yeah, he was thinking about that hot girl from the bar last night? And if so, is that "not showing up", or is that just part of being human and have *life* affect you as it does everyone else?

Anyway, I'm really not trying to get too philosophical, but man, I get so tired of seeing cliche reponses. ANd I think that's exactly what Jake's response was.. .cliche.

[canoli]

I'm somewhere between Maine's rant and Radoran's indictment of the players. Actually maybe they're saying the same thing?

For me I see plenty of talent - enough anyway - to beat struggling teams like the Rags. There are a couple exceptions on D - guys that prob shouldn't have an NHL job. But other than them there's no reason to say "we're just not that good" talent-wise. We're certainly not playing well, but the talent - the ability - is there. Enough of it anyway - maybe not to challenge elite teams but a mid-pack PO spot shouldn't have been out of the question for this roster.

And as much as I hate Bryzgalov's presence he has been good enough to win IF he'd gotten some goal support. Maybe the guys hate his guts, maybe the hate the owner's - I dunno. But at some point you have to realize you're a professional and just suck it up - whatEVER it is you don't like.

[brelic]

I'm somewhere between Maine's rant and Radoran's indictment of the players. Actually maybe they're saying the same thing?

For me I see plenty of talent - enough anyway - to beat struggling teams like the Rags. There are a couple exceptions on D - guys that prob shouldn't have an NHL job. But other than them there's no reason to say "we're just not that good" talent-wise. We're certainly not playing well, but the talent - the ability - is there. Enough of it anyway - maybe not to challenge elite teams but a mid-pack PO spot shouldn't have been out of the question for this roster.

And as much as I hate Bryzgalov's presence he has been good enough to win IF he'd gotten some goal support. Maybe the guys hate his guts, maybe the hate the owner's - I dunno. But at some point you have to realize you're a professional and just suck it up - whatEVER it is you don't like.

Just to clarify my point, I wasn't saying that individually, our pieces are not good enough or don't have enough talent. I was saying that this team, this group of 20 guys, together, are just not that good. For whatever reason, there are pieces missing, and there are pieces that just don't fit. There are also broken pieces (Pronger, Mesz, Briere), etc.

[canoli]

I gotcha. It is sort of a "fine line" - evaluating the individuals who make up a team vs the team itself. But wherever that line is, the Flyers really do suck as a team this year.

My Poster Boy for what I'm trying to say is Braydon Coburn. Individually he's a pretty good defender. But this year he looks like he belongs in the A somewhere riding the bus. How is it possible this guy has regressed so much? We can't really use the "No Pronger" excuse with him - he never paired with Pronger. I just don't get how So Many of the Flyers have come up so small this year.

[brelic]

I gotcha. It is sort of a "fine line" - evaluating the individuals who make up a team vs the team itself. But wherever that line is, the Flyers really do suck as a team this year.

My Poster Boy for what I'm trying to say is Braydon Coburn. Individually he's a pretty good defender. But this year he looks like he belongs in the A somewhere riding the bus. How is it possible this guy has regressed so much? We can't really use the "No Pronger" excuse with him - he never paired with Pronger. I just don't get how So Many of the Flyers have come up so small this year.

That's a great question, and probably the one that keeps Laviolette up at nights. So, did Coburn really regress? Or has this system just been bad for his development? Maybe it exposes his flaws moreso than, say, a team defense system.

Maybe we have the wrong personnel. I think we all wholeheartedly agree that our defense is bad. Really bad. Timo is the best of the lot, and he'll be 40 next year. We have no really succession plan in place. Schenn is one of those pieces. Coburn is another. But beyond that, is Mesz part of the plans long term? He might have been, but I'm not so sure now. I think Grossman is. So we're looking at Coburn, Schenn, and Grossman as our #1/2/3 after next season as it currently stands. I don't know about you, but that doesn't exactly fill me with glee.

So - barring a small miracle and getting Seth Jones - the only way our defense will really change is via trade, and that will cost. A lot.

I think the most frustrating thing about this team is that, when you look at it, we're so close. But really, so far. The inattention to goaltending and defense will cost us dearly, and that's something that could easily have been avoided. Keep Bob behind Bryz, draft Hamilton and Maata. Problem solved. YOu have Giroux and Schenn as #1/2 centers moving forward. You can find a #3 center like Laughton a heckuva lot easier than you can a top pairing defenseman.

And as someone alluded to earlier, we'll probably have to part with Couturier to get a top defensive prospect, and if that happens, that player will be a lesser prospect than Hamilton.

Homer is in a make or break phase for his job.

[canoli]

Ya even if Coby finds his old self we're still looking at him, Luke Schenn and Grossmann - and Kimmo next year. Those 4 hardly instill much fear into the competition. Even if we get Seth Jones...great...but maybe we shouldn't count on him filling Pronger's skates just yet!

So to the marketplace we go ...looking for a D-man who won't cost us more than 1 roster player + picks. Couturier or Read might get us an Aaron Rome type but he's not exactly the clear upgrade we're looking for.

[Lucky13]

I think the most frustrating thing about this team is that, when you look at it, we're so close. But really, so far. The inattention to goaltending and defense will cost us dearly, and that's something that could easily have been avoided. Keep Bob behind Bryz, draft Hamilton and Maata. Problem solved. YOu have Giroux and Schenn as #1/2 centers moving forward. You can find a #3 center like Laughton a heckuva lot easier than you can a top pairing defenseman.

And as someone alluded to earlier, we'll probably have to part with Couturier to get a top defensive prospect, and if that happens, that player will be a lesser prospect than Hamilton.

Homer is in a make or break phase for his job.

Just add in the unforseeable loss of Pronger, and I think you pretty much nailed it right there. It seems awfully obvious to a lot of us fans...Hard to understand how the Flyers' brass managed not to see this. Ugh.

[brelic]

Just add in the unforseeable loss of Pronger, and I think you pretty much nailed it right there. It seems awfully obvious to a lot of us fans...Hard to understand how the Flyers' brass managed not to see this. Ugh.

Good point. A healthy Pronger made drafting a guy like Hamilton less urgent. But still. We didn't need centermen even then. We had Schenn, Giroux, Briere, Talbot.

[CoachX]

Where is the player that is "stepping up" ? I hear Hartnell, Voracek, Timmonen and others all saying they aren't getting it done. But like Rad said, "Why the hell not!"

Who is ont he ice taking matters into their own hands? last season Giroux did just that agains the Penguins. This season there seems to be a lot of acceptance of mediocrity, but no one is doing anything about it. I'm not saying some guys aren't putting in effort (Rinaldo, Simmonds), but what about the rest of them. Why not pick up the intensity and see if that sparks your play. the was a recent article giving stats of how the Flyers play better in games in which they have a fight. I'm not saying that is the answer, but why not at least try it. C'mon Hartnell, be a leader. If you aren't scoring, and you dumb ass is going to go to the box anyway, why not engage someone and see if the emotion has a trickle down effect

[Bakanekimiwa]

It's 'lose' not 'loose' or 'losse'

We are losing, not loosing. Or are we?

[MaineFlyFan]

"The Grammar police, they come to me in this thread, The Grammar Police, they drive me out of my head!"

(and yes, i feel dumber.....happy?)

[toughfighter83]

i think this reflects on homer/like andy reid, he got rid of the championship players they were on the roster, it is on homer because if he didnt sign richards and carter to long term deals, kept gagne, fixed the defense with a couple of low priced free agents, plus giving away draft picks for nothing, it would have been a different team.

he's outgmed himself like andy reid outcoached himself, now snider has to make a change to get this team better.